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Dating a Muslim girlfriend

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k1w1
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Postby k1w1 » Sun, 28 Nov 2010 4:27 am

carteki wrote:
Wind In My Hair wrote:I've never dated a Muslim, and must admit that at some subconscious level probably shied away my entire dating life because I didn't want to deal with the potential hassle.


Thanks WIMH - this does cut to the essence of the above debate - whether the "non-muslim" is the man or the woman. Although a woman may not have to convert there are cultural issues that put her at a greater disadvantage than a man in the same situation - the man being able to take a 2nd wife for example. This could be quite easily remedied with an iron-clad anti-nuptial contract, but it is weird that in Singapore these are "considered", but not enforceable. All marriage break-ups are stressful, but when one partner has the ability to change the rules at the last minute to suit themselves despite having previously agreed otherwise freaks me (and not just a little).


In Singapore, men can't take another wife, muslim or not. But the situation is vastly more complicated for a non-muslim woman, as you say.

Leona, I have had similar circumstances to what you describe with my Malay partner (and I'm not even married to the guy!) The pressure is just outrageous. For me, some of Islam goes against everything that I stand for. We Kiwi women are fairly, um, rough around the edges. You might even say staunch. :wink: I certainly have certain views on gender equality that just do not sit well in Islam. (I blew my partner's friends away once by remarking that I don't see why men have to be the one to financially support the family - especially if he wants to be home with the kids, say, or the wife has better earning potential. This was verging on radical for these guys, yet it has been happening for a couple of generations where I'm from...)

My partner is about as non-Muslim in behaviour as I am and thinks the whole thing is ridiculous, thankfully. But his parents are genuinely concerned that we might end up having children and that they would end up then having grand-children who don't follow Islam. (They seem to have not noticed that their own kid doesn't). We have left Singapore now, and I think that is the only way we were ever going to get away from that, as several posters above have already said.

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Take it or leave it

Postby bloodyfootandmouthdisease » Fri, 03 Dec 2010 4:46 pm

There is no such thing as modern or not, but there is such thing as tolerance. Find out what religions means to her family, simply if they religious or not. And by the way, you must be ready to sacrifice some of your believes too... coz I dont think that she would convert because of you. When two cultures get together, both must learn how to use the tools of ''sacrifice, understanding & tolerance'' otherwise it wont work!

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Re: Take it or leave it

Postby JR8 » Fri, 03 Dec 2010 9:52 pm

bloodyfootandmouthdisease wrote:There is no such thing as modern or not, but there is such thing as tolerance. Find out what religions means to her family, simply if they religious or not. And by the way, you must be ready to sacrifice some of your believes too... coz I dont think that she would convert because of you. When two cultures get together, both must learn how to use the tools of ''sacrifice, understanding & tolerance'' otherwise it wont work!


Make some sense or burn!

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Postby longstebe » Sat, 04 Dec 2010 6:13 pm

Will there be doughnuts when this is over?

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Re: Dating a Muslim girlfriend

Postby ex-pat » Sun, 05 Dec 2010 7:38 am

berkshire_yorkie wrote:
Just my personal view is that there is no God and that's why I'm an aetheist.


There your problem is....If you are a NON- BELIEVER of GOD how can you marry a BELIEVER of GOD.

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Re: Dating a Muslim girlfriend

Postby JR8 » Sun, 05 Dec 2010 2:16 pm

ex-pat wrote:
berkshire_yorkie wrote:
Just my personal view is that there is no God and that's why I'm an aetheist.


There your problem is....If you are a NON- BELIEVER of GOD how can you marry a BELIEVER of GOD.


Disagree. My missus has her own views and opinions, and I don't expect her to be a mirror image of me. Bit like suggesting I shouldn't have married her because she isn't into scuba diving.

But if religion was such a totemic thing to her, that she could not accept anyone for whom it wasn't, then ... simply put, I'd run a mile. I've long thought religious people a bit weak minded, you know, nuts.

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Postby longstebe » Sun, 05 Dec 2010 2:49 pm

Very well put JR8.

I try not to get involved with the religion side of things but I respect people and what they follow or choose to believe. The OP's situation is a tough one but if they both want to be together and tie the knot, then both need to give a little.

I certainly wouldn't be changing my name or praying to something thats not believable.

Meet the parents and be up front with them, thats my advice.

Good luck matey.

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Have faith

Postby Backpacker » Mon, 06 Dec 2010 1:19 pm

Love can conquer all. Religion and many other things are created by human.....and since we are the creator of all these, I am sure we can ignore all these too. Be free to love. As long as you are serious, I am sure you will overcome everything and be together.

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Postby Muslima70 » Thu, 16 Dec 2010 2:39 pm

I think you should just keep an open mind and discuss with her first...most people find that when they get married and have kids..religion does matter..i had friends in school who felt angry and frustrated that their parents were not the same religion...cos they grew up feeling confused and lost...

Based on what i read here...
there seems to be a lot misconceptions about islam.

perhaps it is best for you to learn about it at the corect places first like Muslim converts Association before deciding that you believe in Islam or not...

If your future wife decides she herself does not care about Islam..well then it is her choice..though it will be sad for her to give up her rights as muslim woman..In islam..a muslim mother is 3 times more rights than a father ..and it her status is so high it said that heaven lies at the feet of a mother. Al this is based on the saying of Prophet Muhd (peace be upon him) So if you guys get married and she gives up on islam , she is going up a lot.

You can also check this website: It's good source about Islam info.

Hope all that info helps you, God Willing.
http://www.thedeenshow.com/nonmuslims.php
Salam(peace be with you)

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 16 Dec 2010 4:42 pm

Muslima70 wrote:...In islam..a muslim mother is 3 times more rights than a father

Could you clarify what you mean please? 3 times more rights to what?


...and it her status is so high it said that heaven lies at the feet of a mother.

Would that only apply to mothers?

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Postby Muslima70 » Fri, 17 Dec 2010 10:49 am

JR8 wrote:
Muslima70 wrote:...In islam..a muslim mother is 3 times more rights than a father

Could you clarify what you mean please? 3 times more rights to what?


...and it her status is so high it said that heaven lies at the feet of a mother.

Would that only apply to mothers?


Hi thanks for the good questions.

1) In Islam a mother has 3 times more rights than a father for companionship, love, care , consideration and other matters. In fact even financial support according to some Islamic scholars. There is a famous Hadith ( Sayings of the Prophet) in which this this story is told:
A man came to the Prohpet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and asked "who deserves the best of my companionship?" And the Prophet replied : " Your Mother."
And the man asked "Who next?" The Prophet replied : " Your mother."
Then the man asked again "Who next?" The Prophet replied: "Your mother." Then the man asked again" Who next?. The Prophet replied : "Your father."

So an anology one can use is that the mother gets the Gold prize, the Silver prize and the Bronze prize. A father only receives the Consolotion prize.

But this does NOT imply that fathers are not important. There are also other famous sayings by the Prophet which states that if a person is unduitiful and makes their father angry, God too is angry with them.

Also in the Quran it commanded for humans not to even say any words of rudeness to their parents, not even the word "Uff" . In Arabic "Uff" is a sound to indicate that one is tired or annoyed with a person. And in the Quran it commanded to treat elderly parents with humility, respect and kindness.

These commands apply for All parents. Even their parent is a non-muslim, as long as they have cared for their child, and child is obligated to show all the acts of kindness to their parents. And even more so if the kids grow into adults.

2) Pls refer to my response in (1). Fathers are important in Islam.
Fathers and husbands are deemed important roles in Islam too.

If you make you father angry out wilfulness or malice, God is angry with you. This is based on the teaching of the Prophet. For us muslims , since God is the Most Merciful and the Most Loving, it is really bad thing to make your father ( and hence God angry with you). Your life is deemed as "no-blessings".

Fathers have additional responsibility compared to the mother. They need to work and provide for the wife and kids. in fact muslim men are financially responsible for their female relatives like their mother, their grandmother, their aunts, their sisters and their nieces..just to name a few. BUT in practice nowadays most men just concentrate on their immediate family.


Muslim women can work and are allowed to work.In fact during the Prophets time, there are famous muslim women who worked abd earned their own income.
Even before the Prophet's lifetime. In the Quran one such story is mentioned. And this lady is regarded as very good example in Islam. Sorry I can't remember her name but a wife of Prophet Yunos (Jonah) I think. This lady and Prohpet Yunos(Jonah) lived before the time of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). When Prophet Jonah fell sick his wife refused to abondon him AND worked to support him.

But father cannot force the wife to support him and the kids. But most women do in fact willingly give their income to help their husband and their kids. So this is well loved behaviour in Islam.
Prophet Muhammad's first wife was a rich businesswoman named Khadijah. She used to be very charitable and help poor people from her own money. In fact Prophet was a poor man and many people ( in their tribe) surprised she proposed to him first. So Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)married his own boss.

She liked him cos when she employed him as a worker she found him to honest and good and gentle person who never told lies or broke his promises.

Apart from financial support, fathers are expected to give moral, emotional and religious support to their wife and their children.

A man is also obligated to take care of his wife physical needs. He cannot only satisfy his sexual need he is also expected to take care of his wife sexual needs. In fact in Islam, a married couple who make love to each other get blessings and the act of foreplay and sex is recorded as a good deeds by the angel. But illicit sex recorded as a sin. Based on sayings of the Prophet.

Women only expected to be companion to their husband , to give moral and emotional support to their husband and family, to to take care of their husband sexual needs and to care for their children. If she chooses to work, her husband cannot force her to give him money. He cannot force her to do housework. He cannot force her to cook. This is because we told that the role of being wife and mother itself is both time consuming and emotionally, mentally and physically demanding role and a very important one.

But if lady chooses to take care of their home and makes her family happy, God will reward her all her good deeds. That's why many muslim ladies choose to carry out these extra duties. To please God and get more blessings from God. also obviously most women do not marry rich men, since their husband cannot afford a maid, and men have to work , it is only natural that most ladies end up doing the childcare and housework. Seems to be universal thing right?

Muslim women also have right to be treated with kindness and not cruelty. She can ask for divorce if husband abondons her or is cruel to her. Mentioned in the Quran.

Also the right to own her own property, to be educated etc..During the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) lifetime and even after his death there were women advisors and leaders to the muslim community. Even "public office" position.


Many more rights for muslim women...but I cannot remember everything. Rights based on what is mentioned in the Quran, the Hadith (saying of the Prophet) and the religious rulings of Islamic scholars AND legal rights given in one's country.

So to balance out the "power" in the marriage children have the fathers name. Also fathers are the "sheperd" in the family. As a father he is viewed is the leader, he get more responsibility. So more authority is given to him. Wife is co-leader and husband and wife is viewed are supposed to help one another as team. Or to borrow an example one teacher taught me if the family is on the ark/ship, The husband is the captain and the wife the first-mate and the kids are the crew.

Since we muslims believe in Judgement Day, we believe that a man will be questioned about his own behaviour, his wife's behaviour and his (adult)children's behaviour.If his family commit evil deeds and he wilfully refuses to advise them to stop, the man will be punished ..cos being a leader means he has more liability . If the father does evil deeds he will be punished for his own sins too. The wife and (adult)children will be punished for their own sins. But will not be held accountable for anything their husband/father did.

But IF he has done his best to guide them and advice them, then he will not be punished even if they still commit sins. This point is very important. That is why muslims will keep on advising each other to do good deds and avoid evil deeds. In the Quran, We are told to strive for Heaven via good deeds and to avoid bad deeds so we can avoid Hellfire. As long we advise the person and did our best to stop a person from doing an evil deed, we will not be punished, God willing.

So you can see that in Islam, does try to balance out the situation between men and women. islam it stated men and women are TWIN HALVES of each other. In the quran men and women are described as being companions for each other who are initially created from One soul. But we taught by God that men and women sometimes have different roles to play and different rights depending on the situation.


Only children below the "age of reasoning power" , the senile people , people who lack reasoning power ( eg spastic) and insane people if they happen to commit evil deeds will not be held accountable for any accidental evil deeds they may commit. For example if a baby dies, it is mentioned that it will it go to Heaven , even if its parents are non-muslim. Based on the sayings of the Prophet.

Sorry my answer is so long. I just want to make it clear that our belief in Islam is that God is Most Merciful and He is kind to both men and women. Both men and women are important, both will be rewarded for their good deeds and they will go to Heaven . Both will be punished if they do evil deeds and they will go to Hell. One does not get a "free pass" to Heaven simply by being muslim. You have to do good deeds and avoid bad deeds too, and no exceptions for men or women.

Also all my points here are trying to explain why most practicing and believing muslim families get worried and stressed if their child marries a non-muslim. It may not be real to non-muslim, but for us muslims the concept of Judgement day and Heaven and Hell are very real. If muslim family does not believe and does not practice Islam, then of course , obviously they will not care if their child marries a non-muslim.

Also help to explain why if non-muslim wants to just have civil marriage with a muslim, often the muslim parents-in-laws will try to coax the non-muslim to revert to Islam. Cos it is sin to just marry a non-muslim , plus the muslim will be questioned by God in the next world. If the parents-in-laws try to advise it is Ok, God will understand and forgive them even if they don't succeed. but if they don't try, they have neglected their duty to their own child and child's spouse. Also the muslim spouse will be questioned by God in the next world for not teaching and sharing about Islam, to the non-muslim spouse.

And NO compulsion in religion. Mentioned in the Quran. We muslims just need to share info. People want to believe or don't want to believe it is up to them. We are forbidden to force people to accept Islam and forbidden to critise other people's gods. Also mentioned in the Quran.I cannot speak for all muslims out there, but I can speak for myself and this is what I have learnt about Islam and try to practice, God willing.

But sad to say fanatics are doing the oppositite mentioned the Quran.. But these fanatics do not represent the way Islam is taught in the Quran, and the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and the religious scholars.

Ok I hope my answer makes it clear. Pls take note I am not a Islamic scholar. I am just normal muslim girl. All this stuff I learnt from my muslim religious teachers , muslim lawyers and my parents.
Once again I do apologise for the long answer.

And I hope the original poster of this thread will at least read my answer before jumping to conclusions about islam. If nothing else I hope he will not reject the idea to just learn more about Islam from a correct source, God willing.
Salam(peace be with you)

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Postby Muslima70 » Fri, 17 Dec 2010 11:27 am

and I my words offend anyone out there, i humbly apologise.

I am not apologising for being a muslim, or for believing in Islam. I am happy and grateful to be a muslim woman.

But being an imperfect muslim, i may have said something or maybe my tone may sound harsh...so if I have hurt anybody on this forum, pls accept my sincere apologies.
Salam(peace be with you)

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 18 Dec 2010 7:26 am

Thanks for such a long and detailed reply. As an atheist, I think I'll leave it there.

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Postby durain » Sat, 18 Dec 2010 8:34 am

too long for me to read thru in the morning! i think i will go eat bak kut teh for breakfast with my wife since her status is higher than mine. :P :D

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Postby Muslima70 » Mon, 20 Dec 2010 9:18 am

durain wrote:too long for me to read thru in the morning! i think i will go eat bak kut teh for breakfast with my wife since her status is higher than mine. :P :D


Yes it is long answer...as mentioned I am merely your average practicing muslim girl..so I guess I am not experienced enough to answer in succint and simple manner... I am not an Islamic teacher, nor I am a muslim lawyer.

I merely wanted to point out that sometimes the mis-conceptions people have about Islam and our way of life and our beliefs is just that misconceptions...

Being new to this site I would have remained quiet but after a while I felt I had to speak out and and just share about Islam , so for people who do want to sincerely want know they can get some facts correct...and know that there are sources they can go to learn about islam correctly.

In any case durain , rest assured that in Islam your status as human being and as a man is equally important...

women and men are described as being the TWIN halves of each other is islam..based on Hadith of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

So you need worry about your status as a man :wink: :)

And thanks for actually taking the time to comment even if you did not read my post.
:)
Salam(peace be with you)


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