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Dating a Muslim girlfriend

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Postby ksl » Sat, 06 Nov 2010 2:24 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Wind In My Hair wrote:PS: in the spirit of this thread and religious differences, shall we start yelling at each other now? :wink:


Do you think that is remotely possible? Even when we disagree? :)


Well just to throw some fat on the fire, I can understand a person highlighting some reference with capital letters, I don't immediately take it as shouting, though whoever started the claim that capital letters means shouting is a raving nut and trouble maker :lol: :P

So bless you all my sons and daughters, you are all forgiven! :P 8-)

Imagine life as peaceful and paradise with all kind people, and you will be so very very happy, until the devil pounces, or the banging on the door from from arhhhhhhh! Fred Flintstone the barbarian

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Postby ksl » Sat, 06 Nov 2010 2:36 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Wind In My Hair wrote:PS: in the spirit of this thread and religious differences, shall we start yelling at each other now? :wink:


Do you think that is remotely possible? Even when we disagree? :)
What is all this a proposal of marriage :P Where's my violin :)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 06 Nov 2010 3:02 pm

Purely paternal I'm afraid. :oops:

ksl,
Hannibal Lecter speaks! Oh, I forgot, your religion doesn't really include that perversion does it. :D Although it does start with the father, son.... :oops: :lol:

By the way, were you at the Expo last night? You mentioned something about a food exhibition this weekend (I was there at the Nanyang Loh Clan Asssociation dinner). Don't ask!
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Sun, 07 Nov 2010 1:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby leona123 » Sat, 06 Nov 2010 4:49 pm

ksl wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Wind In My Hair wrote:PS: in the spirit of this thread and religious differences, shall we start yelling at each other now? :wink:


Do you think that is remotely possible? Even when we disagree? :)


Well just to throw some fat on the fire, I can understand a person highlighting some reference with capital letters, I don't immediately take it as shouting, though whoever started the claim that capital letters means shouting is a raving nut and trouble maker :lol: :P

So bless you all my sons and daughters, you are all forgiven! :P 8-)

Imagine life as peaceful and paradise with all kind people, and you will be so very very happy, until the devil pounces, or the banging on the door from from arhhhhhhh! Fred Flintstone the barbarian


Lol. Hey, disagreements are fun until it becomes solely a name-calling match(not saying that it has become one now). Anyways, I do apologise if anyone had misunderstood my capital letters as shouting. Let's stay on the interesting topic of non-muslim and muslim relationship, shall we? Smiles.

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 06 Nov 2010 9:56 pm

leona123 wrote:
JR8 wrote:MUIS sent my wife a letter inviting her in for a pre-made appointment. She threw it in the bin. End of.


leona123 wrote:After your use of your word, 'irrelevant' with regards to inheritance law, I'm just DOUBTING the credibility of what your statement above is IMPLYING.


Wow, being doubted by a stranger on the web, that really hurts 8-)
Shall I try again? My wife has nothing that I would wish to inherit, therefore inheritance law is both insignificant and irrelevant to me.

leona123 wrote:Anyway, whatever it is implying, you can just throw the letter into the bin but it is not the 'end of' as you put it SO simply. Father will also be informed. MUIS will keep calling the house to enquire and several reminders will be sent. Of course, they can all be ignored. However, it would be in the best interest for the muslim to attend because he/she will be informed about several important issues. Like the marriage is not recognised under islamic law,kids and assets after death (which you can read on the website as well).


I checked with my wife just to ensure that I recalled the situation correctly. This is what she said.
'I received the letter from MUIS requesting that I drop in for a chat with them. I e-mailed them and asked if them if it was compulsory, and they said no it's not. So I replied and said I'd call and make an appointment for a time convenient to me. But I never did. I then threw letter in the bin. I never heard from them again. Oh, and despite what this lady [i.e. you] on the forum says, neither of my parents were contacted either'

Curious that our experiences were so different isn't it?

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Postby leona123 » Sun, 07 Nov 2010 12:24 am

JR8 wrote:
leona123 wrote:
JR8 wrote:MUIS sent my wife a letter inviting her in for a pre-made appointment. She threw it in the bin. End of.


leona123 wrote:After your use of your word, 'irrelevant' with regards to inheritance law, I'm just DOUBTING the credibility of what your statement above is IMPLYING.


Wow, being doubted by a stranger on the web, that really hurts 8-)
Shall I try again? My wife has nothing that I would wish to inherit, therefore inheritance law is both insignificant and irrelevant to me.

leona123 wrote:Anyway, whatever it is implying, you can just throw the letter into the bin but it is not the 'end of' as you put it SO simply. Father will also be informed. MUIS will keep calling the house to enquire and several reminders will be sent. Of course, they can all be ignored. However, it would be in the best interest for the muslim to attend because he/she will be informed about several important issues. Like the marriage is not recognised under islamic law,kids and assets after death (which you can read on the website as well).


I checked with my wife just to ensure that I recalled the situation correctly. This is what she said.
'I received the letter from MUIS requesting that I drop in for a chat with them. I e-mailed them and asked if them if it was compulsory, and they said no it's not. So I replied and said I'd call and make an appointment for a time convenient to me. But I never did. I then threw letter in the bin. I never heard from them again. Oh, and despite what this lady [i.e. you] on the forum says, neither of my parents were contacted either'

Curious that our experiences were so different isn't it?


Let's just wait and see if a third party can confirm which one of us has the correct 'version' of the situation.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 07 Nov 2010 12:25 am

ksl, if I were getting married, the thought of you playing the violin at my wedding would make my change my mind :P

SMS, it's probably one level up from paternal, ie grandfatherly :mrgreen:

JR8 wrote:I checked with my wife just to ensure that I recalled the situation correctly. This is what she said.
'I received the letter from MUIS requesting that I drop in for a chat with them. I e-mailed them and asked if them if it was compulsory, and they said no it's not. So I replied and said I'd call and make an appointment for a time convenient to me. But I never did. I then threw letter in the bin. I never heard from them again. Oh, and despite what this lady [i.e. you] on the forum says, neither of my parents were contacted either'

Thanks for sharing this specific detail, JR8. While anecdotal, it helps to give a realistic picture rather than simply drawing on generalisations and hearsay.

I've never dated a Muslim, and must admit that at some subconscious level probably shied away my entire dating life because I didn't want to deal with the potential hassle. Most Muslim men I know are looking for Muslim partners anyway, which may explain why many Muslim-non Muslim relationships involve a Muslim female rather than a Muslim male.

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Postby JR8 » Sun, 07 Nov 2010 5:36 am

leona123 wrote:
JR8 wrote:
leona123 wrote:
JR8 wrote:MUIS sent my wife a letter inviting her in for a pre-made appointment. She threw it in the bin. End of.


leona123 wrote:After your use of your word, 'irrelevant' with regards to inheritance law, I'm just DOUBTING the credibility of what your statement above is IMPLYING.


Wow, being doubted by a stranger on the web, that really hurts 8-)
Shall I try again? My wife has nothing that I would wish to inherit, therefore inheritance law is both insignificant and irrelevant to me.

leona123 wrote:Anyway, whatever it is implying, you can just throw the letter into the bin but it is not the 'end of' as you put it SO simply. Father will also be informed. MUIS will keep calling the house to enquire and several reminders will be sent. Of course, they can all be ignored. However, it would be in the best interest for the muslim to attend because he/she will be informed about several important issues. Like the marriage is not recognised under islamic law,kids and assets after death (which you can read on the website as well).


I checked with my wife just to ensure that I recalled the situation correctly. This is what she said.
'I received the letter from MUIS requesting that I drop in for a chat with them. I e-mailed them and asked if them if it was compulsory, and they said no it's not. So I replied and said I'd call and make an appointment for a time convenient to me. But I never did. I then threw letter in the bin. I never heard from them again. Oh, and despite what this lady [i.e. you] on the forum says, neither of my parents were contacted either'

Curious that our experiences were so different isn't it?


Let's just wait and see if a third party can confirm which one of us has the correct 'version' of the situation.


I think that is your problem.

You appear to have difficulty accepting that another person's experience, might in fact be normal, and yours is not. So you wait for a '3rd party' to come along and confirm your own one dimensional view. Maybe you had a bad trip with your in-laws and MUIS, I don't know, but I did not.

Do you think I would come here, where I have acquaintances, and feel I am providing at least a little advice and value to the forum, and then make up what I am saying? You'd have to be half bonkers to think a satient adult would have time for such things...


Really.

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Postby leona123 » Sun, 07 Nov 2010 7:02 am

JR8 wrote:
leona123 wrote:
JR8 wrote:
leona123 wrote:
JR8 wrote:MUIS sent my wife a letter inviting her in for a pre-made appointment. She threw it in the bin. End of.


leona123 wrote:After your use of your word, 'irrelevant' with regards to inheritance law, I'm just DOUBTING the credibility of what your statement above is IMPLYING.


Wow, being doubted by a stranger on the web, that really hurts 8-)
Shall I try again? My wife has nothing that I would wish to inherit, therefore inheritance law is both insignificant and irrelevant to me.

leona123 wrote:Anyway, whatever it is implying, you can just throw the letter into the bin but it is not the 'end of' as you put it SO simply. Father will also be informed. MUIS will keep calling the house to enquire and several reminders will be sent. Of course, they can all be ignored. However, it would be in the best interest for the muslim to attend because he/she will be informed about several important issues. Like the marriage is not recognised under islamic law,kids and assets after death (which you can read on the website as well).


I checked with my wife just to ensure that I recalled the situation correctly. This is what she said.
'I received the letter from MUIS requesting that I drop in for a chat with them. I e-mailed them and asked if them if it was compulsory, and they said no it's not. So I replied and said I'd call and make an appointment for a time convenient to me. But I never did. I then threw letter in the bin. I never heard from them again. Oh, and despite what this lady [i.e. you] on the forum says, neither of my parents were contacted either'

Curious that our experiences were so different isn't it?


Let's just wait and see if a third party can confirm which one of us has the correct 'version' of the situation.


I think that is your problem.

You appear to have difficulty accepting that another person's experience, might in fact be normal, and yours is not. So you wait for a '3rd party' to come along and confirm your own one dimensional view. Maybe you had a bad trip with your in-laws and MUIS, I don't know, but I did not.

Do you think I would come here, where I have acquaintances, and feel I am providing at least a little advice and value to the forum, and then make up what I am saying? You'd have to be half bonkers to think a satient adult would have time for such things...


Really.


Cool. I think I might have misunderstood you (I apologise if I have), When you said, "Curious that our experiences were so different isn't it?" I honestly thought you meant that I could be lying about my experience. I should have clarified. My bad.

I think that is your problem.
You appear to have difficulty accepting that another person's experience, might in fact be normal, and yours is not. So you wait for a '3rd party' to come along and confirm your own one dimensional view. Maybe you had a bad trip with your in-laws and MUIS, I don't know, but I did not.

Yup, more opinions again.
I thought I made it very clear that some people might find it normal when I said, " it also doesn't mean that because I faced problems, others would either. "
And I didn't say that I'm waiting for a '3rd party' to come along to confirm MY views. I said a '3rd party' to confirm whose 'version' was correct. And might I remind you that it was YOU who have insisted that it was just a simple matter of throwing the letter into the bin and I'm pointing out to you that not everyone takes matter the way your spouse did. This also means NOT everyone would take matters the way my spouse did(not surprising since his father WAS called and he was also sent repeated reminders). And I also already clarified (IN CAPS, at that), that the message I'm trying to get across is, "GO FIND OUT BEFORE COMMITTING. THERE IS NO HARM IN HAVING MORE INFORMATION" This is pertaining to not just the muis letter but also to legal implications for the non-muslim and future children.

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Postby Expat_guy » Sun, 07 Nov 2010 9:24 am

It all depends on the muslim spouse and his relatives, and also to the great extent on who much your muslim spouse is attached to his relatives. Experiences of a non-muslim spouse can become very nasty and unpleasent depending on the above.

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Postby leona123 » Sun, 07 Nov 2010 9:32 am

Expat_guy wrote:It all depends on the muslim spouse and his relatives, and also to the great extent on who much your muslim spouse is attached to his relatives. Experiences of a non-muslim spouse can become very nasty and unpleasent depending on the above.

An exact echo of my thoughts.

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Postby carteki » Mon, 08 Nov 2010 11:01 am

Wind In My Hair wrote:I've never dated a Muslim, and must admit that at some subconscious level probably shied away my entire dating life because I didn't want to deal with the potential hassle.


Thanks WIMH - this does cut to the essence of the above debate - whether the "non-muslim" is the man or the woman. Although a woman may not have to convert there are cultural issues that put her at a greater disadvantage than a man in the same situation - the man being able to take a 2nd wife for example. This could be quite easily remedied with an iron-clad anti-nuptial contract, but it is weird that in Singapore these are "considered", but not enforceable. All marriage break-ups are stressful, but when one partner has the ability to change the rules at the last minute to suit themselves despite having previously agreed otherwise freaks me (and not just a little).

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Postby Daz Voz » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 4:44 pm

My wife is a Muslim. I am a Christian. I did not convert and neither did she.
We got married in Australia.
--------------
Wow! Another triple negative!
--------------

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Postby ksl » Sat, 13 Nov 2010 5:22 pm

Daz Voz wrote:My wife is a Muslim. I am a Christian. I did not convert and neither did she.
We got married in Australia.
There are literally thousands if not millions of Muslims, that have their own thoughts on religion, one doesn't have to preach to respect ones faith, even though some may well believe in the opposite.
I have a lot of respect for Muslims, they are no different than other people at all, so i can imagine there are many Muslims living a happy life with foreign none Muslims.
Love after all is stronger than any religion, but people are born with identities and it is not right to ask people to change identity, for love or marriage.

I'm a born Catholic but have never been to church since a child, i would never change my identity because i see no reason too.

Now under the fear of being prosecuted is another matter, we may well be pressurised to adapt, for the sake of culture, this would be a matter of choice, but adapting is not the same as choice, so all heartedly one would keep their identity a secret.

I sympathise with many Muslims, that may well be under a great deal of pressure, depending on situations and locations, the yard stick is a long one and Identities do not really change on the inside, if they don't want to.

People, Location, Culture, we test the waters, and adapt or not love will continue, we can also assume that some families like some Chinese live a traditional life its a religion in itself, we either embrace it or not. It's very hard to say we don't believe in it, because it's there in front of us, it's part of integration in my opinion, how well one integrates is another matter. There can only be one god, in which we are all apart of no matter where one comes from.

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Postby leona123 » Sun, 14 Nov 2010 8:07 am

ksl wrote:Love after all is stronger than any religion, but people are born with identities and it is not right to ask people to change identity, for love or marriage.

Would be wonderful if everyone felt the same way.


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