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Dating a Muslim girlfriend

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Postby nakatago » Thu, 21 Oct 2010 11:11 am

sigh...you could almost quote a verse in the holy books to justify anything.

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Postby JayCee » Thu, 21 Oct 2010 2:17 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
leona123 wrote:The following verse is in the quran:

Q4.34(Shakir): Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and BEAT THEM; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

I'm just curious. What are the opinions of the muslims(whether Singaporeans or immigrants to Singapore) on the above quran verse? Do you think it is alright for women to be beaten?


So what? Try Leviticus in the Old Testament... same same

20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
20:14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
20:16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
20:17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.


It's all about lying down though, so does that mean it's ok if they do it standing up? :lol:

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Postby treacle_sponge » Wed, 27 Oct 2010 11:20 pm

Bafana wrote:My wife is a Muslim and I am a Catholic. Our daughter is Catholic. According to her religion I should convert but according to mine she should, so who is right or wrong, which religion is more important.

In the end she came foward and said our children should follow their father and that we should each follow our own paths since true respect in a relationship applies to each others religions as well.

It makes for unusal menu orders when we go out or ordering pizza in, since my daughter and I can go a fried rice or mega meat pizza Aussie style, but she can't. Apart from that we have regular conversatiosn on her faith and mine which adds to the relationship rather than degrade it.

And before others can ask she is very religous even having gone to a Madras (spelling) School.


Similar situation here. When things got serious between me and hubby, I asked him if he would contemplate being a Muslim. He categorically said no. I then raised my, 'if you love me' card. He saw my card and raised HIS, 'if you love me card'. It made me think, and I decided that he shouln't have to, and I left this country to be with him.
Don't get me wrong, being a woman, it was my prerogative to try and change his mind :D especially since my parents are experts at emotional blackmail (and I had to offload somewhat by trying to convince him) but nothing doing, he didn't want to have anything to do with any kind of organised religion. We had a lot of philosophical discussions and he did say that if my faith made any sense he would consider it, but I was dealt a bad hand really :P
The more we spoke, the more I realised my religion didn't make sense, since he could poke holes at every turn, and it was a terrifying moment for me when my safety net started disappearing and the great chasm of the 'unknown' yawned behind me. I realised that being a Muslim was a fallback situation, since I wasn't even a practising muslim, I love the odd drop and bacon sarnies were a weekend treat. I gave it up altogether and according to the belief-o-meter on a website recently, I'm more of a buddhist than anything else!

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 5:08 am

Religions are instruments formulated in a vast part (if not fully) and executed by humans with the claim that this is what the God wants and likes. You really do not need these institutionalized men in the middle to believe in God and do the right things.

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 5:42 am

word

anneteoh

Postby anneteoh » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 6:32 am

leona123 wrote:The following verse is in the quran:

Q4.34(Shakir): Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and BEAT THEM; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

I'm just curious. What are the opinions of the muslims(whether Singaporeans or immigrants to Singapore) on the above quran verse? Do you think it is alright for women to be beaten?


Wasn't it Khadijah who maintained Mohamed ?

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Postby nakatago » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 8:29 am

x9200 wrote:Religions are instruments formulated in a vast part (if not fully) and executed by humans with the claim that this is what the God wants and likes. You really do not need these institutionalized men in the middle to believe in God and do the right things.


QFT

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Postby Expat_guy » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 9:45 am

anneteoh wrote:
leona123 wrote:The following verse is in the quran:

Q4.34(Shakir): Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and BEAT THEM; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

I'm just curious. What are the opinions of the muslims(whether Singaporeans or immigrants to Singapore) on the above quran verse? Do you think it is alright for women to be beaten?


Wasn't it Khadijah who maintained Mohamed ?


As per muslim law, women can own property, have money, but are under the control of her male relatives, either father or husband. Women cannot go out alone and would be stoned to death if they did.

So you can see that even though Khadijah maintained Mohamad, it was Mohamad who maintained Khadijah.

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Postby leona123 » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 3:07 pm

treacle_sponge wrote:Similar situation here. When things got serious between me and hubby, I asked him if he would contemplate being a Muslim. He categorically said no. I then raised my, 'if you love me' card. He saw my card and raised HIS, 'if you love me card'. It made me think, and I decided that he shouln't have to, and I left this country to be with him.
Don't get me wrong, being a woman, it was my prerogative to try and change his mind :D especially since my parents are experts at emotional blackmail (and I had to offload somewhat by trying to convince him) but nothing doing, he didn't want to have anything to do with any kind of organised religion. We had a lot of philosophical discussions and he did say that if my faith made any sense he would consider it, but I was dealt a bad hand really :P
The more we spoke, the more I realised my religion didn't make sense, since he could poke holes at every turn, and it was a terrifying moment for me when my safety net started disappearing and the great chasm of the 'unknown' yawned behind me. I realised that being a Muslim was a fallback situation, since I wasn't even a practising muslim, I love the odd drop and bacon sarnies were a weekend treat. I gave it up altogether and according to the belief-o-meter on a website recently, I'm more of a buddhist than anything else!


Well, I'm surprised that you actually came out of Islam. The many muslims that I know are so scared of hell that they would never be able to even contemplate this. My husband knows that there are many loopholes in Islam and yet, he refuses to leave it. Not that I have an issue with him being a muslim. I only have issues with the legal issues. Marriage between muslim and non-muslim... Complicated!

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Postby leona123 » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 3:09 pm

anneteoh wrote:
leona123 wrote:The following verse is in the quran:

Q4.34(Shakir): Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and BEAT THEM; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

I'm just curious. What are the opinions of the muslims(whether Singaporeans or immigrants to Singapore) on the above quran verse? Do you think it is alright for women to be beaten?


Wasn't it Khadijah who maintained Mohamed ?


Good point. lol.

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Postby treacle_sponge » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 7:41 pm

leona123 wrote:Well, I'm surprised that you actually came out of Islam. The many muslims that I know are so scared of hell that they would never be able to even contemplate this. My husband knows that there are many loopholes in Islam and yet, he refuses to leave it. Not that I have an issue with him being a muslim. I only have issues with the legal issues. Marriage between muslim and non-muslim... Complicated!


Well, considering that another muslim is quite entitled to kill me for apostasy, it's no wonder that it's not something that you would broadcast to the world, so there are many of us out there, but it isn't something that is common knowledge (and no I don't think there is a Muslim anonymous group out there that we can go to in subterfuge to discuss withdrawal issues :lol: )
I don't think there is such a thing as 'hell' anyway, not in the physical sense - in fact, I was in 'hell', because my faith demanded certain things that I wasn't able to give, but my hell was my state of mind, as well as the guilt that I felt for 'going against God' - but once I didn't have that faith or belief anymore, that hellish state of mind went away. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this properly, so I'm sorry if it doesn't make much sense. :(
Anyway, in order to contemplate the alternatives, muslims have to think blasphemous thoughts, and that instantly makes them apostates, and guarantees an eternity in 'hell'. So it's a zone that most muslims steer away from, although my argument is, how can you know your faith, if you don't step away from it, to look at it in the clear light of day.

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Postby treacle_sponge » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 7:44 pm

Expat_guy wrote:
anneteoh wrote:
leona123 wrote:The following verse is in the quran:

Q4.34(Shakir): Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and BEAT THEM; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

I'm just curious. What are the opinions of the muslims(whether Singaporeans or immigrants to Singapore) on the above quran verse? Do you think it is alright for women to be beaten?


Wasn't it Khadijah who maintained Mohamed ?


As per muslim law, women can own property, have money, but are under the control of her male relatives, either father or husband. Women cannot go out alone and would be stoned to death if they did. So you can see that even though Khadijah maintained Mohamad, it was Mohamad who maintained Khadijah.



I think that's cultural, and not necessarily an Islamic thing.

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Postby beenthere » Thu, 28 Oct 2010 11:07 pm

leona123 wrote:.... The many muslims that I know are so scared of hell that they would never be able to even contemplate this. My husband knows that there are many loopholes in Islam and yet, he refuses to leave it.


That's so true for all religions.

replace muslims for any other adherents
replace Islam for any other religion

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Postby leona123 » Fri, 29 Oct 2010 8:49 am

treacle_sponge wrote:Well, considering that another muslim is quite entitled to kill me for apostasy, it's no wonder that it's not something that you would broadcast to the world, so there are many of us out there, but it isn't something that is common knowledge (and no I don't think there is a Muslim anonymous group out there that we can go to in subterfuge to discuss withdrawal issues :lol: )


:) Not sure where you are from. But, in Singapore, you can't get killed for making such a broadcast. I believe, it is more of a stigma thing over here.

treacle_sponge wrote:I don't think there is such a thing as 'hell' anyway, not in the physical sense - in fact, I was in 'hell', because my faith demanded certain things that I wasn't able to give, but my hell was my state of mind, as well as the guilt that I felt for 'going against God' - but once I didn't have that faith or belief anymore, that hellish state of mind went away. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this properly, so I'm sorry if it doesn't make much sense.

Completely agree to the first part. And I do understand the second part. Makes complete sense.

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Postby leona123 » Fri, 29 Oct 2010 8:56 am

treacle_sponge wrote:
Expat_guy wrote:
anneteoh wrote:
leona123 wrote:The following verse is in the quran:

Q4.34(Shakir): Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and BEAT THEM; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

I'm just curious. What are the opinions of the muslims(whether Singaporeans or immigrants to Singapore) on the above quran verse? Do you think it is alright for women to be beaten?


Wasn't it Khadijah who maintained Mohamed ?


As per muslim law, women can own property, have money, but are under the control of her male relatives, either father or husband. Women cannot go out alone and would be stoned to death if they did. So you can see that even though Khadijah maintained Mohamad, it was Mohamad who maintained Khadijah.



I think that's cultural, and not necessarily an Islamic thing.


I'm not sure how much of what Expat_guy said is true. But from what I read in the quran and ahadith, Islam definitely undermines woman. According to Islam, the testimony of woman is half that of man because women are deficient in their mind. Women's inheritance is NOT the same as that of men. Men are maintainers of women. Women cannot say no to sex else they will be cursed by angels. Women are like tilth and men can have sex with them whenever they want. Whole lot of other things.


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