Singapore Expats Forum

Keeping both Australian and Singaporean (dual) citizenship

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:49 pm

Tau Beta wrote:It is true that a child born of at least one US parents is a US Citizen regardless of birth country and they are not required to take any Oath. Taking Oath was something very new to me from this forum. Hence, kids that were born in foreign land of expat US parents generally have Dual Citizenships.

I still wonder if Aussie are required to leave and enter Australia using only Aussie passport.


I'm not sure if what you typed is exactly what you meant, but No, Kids that are born in foreign land of expat US parents DO NOT HAVE DUAL CITIZENSHIP. If both parents are, as you typed, US Citizens, then they are US Citizens only and the country they were born in is immaterial.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:55 pm

If you try to leave Australia or the US or even Singapore using a different passport, then you may be stopped at immigration as an overstayer or illegal immigrant as you will not have an immigration card or stamp in the foreign passport showing your entry into the country, therefore you are an illegal and subject to the laws for illegal immigrants. Pretty serious stuff. If you are an Australian and come in to Australia on a Singaporean passport and overstay you can also be in deep brown smelly stuff if caught. Even though you have Australian citizenship, you gave up those right the minute you stepped through immigration using a non-Australian passport. Same goes for Singapore.

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Postby Tau Beta » Wed, 31 Mar 2010 2:22 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Tau Beta wrote:It is true that a child born of at least one US parents is a US Citizen regardless of birth country and they are not required to take any Oath. Taking Oath was something very new to me from this forum. Hence, kids that were born in foreign land of expat US parents generally have Dual Citizenships.

I still wonder if Aussie are required to leave and enter Australia using only Aussie passport.


I'm not sure if what you typed is exactly what you meant, but No, Kids that are born in foreign land of expat US parents DO NOT HAVE DUAL CITIZENSHIP. If both parents are, as you typed, US Citizens, then they are US Citizens only and the country they were born in is immaterial.



Interesting! I have a couple of Army Brets friends who have German Citizenship while their folks are serving in Germany. In fact, one of my old boss had Dual Citizenships 'cos his dad was serving in Germany and he was born in Germany. Maybe people are not telling me everything.

Thanks again!

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Postby Tau Beta » Wed, 31 Mar 2010 2:34 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If you try to leave Australia or the US or even Singapore using a different passport, then you may be stopped at immigration as an overstayer or illegal immigrant as you will not have an immigration card or stamp in the foreign passport showing your entry into the country, therefore you are an illegal and subject to the laws for illegal immigrants. Pretty serious stuff. If you are an Australian and come in to Australia on a Singaporean passport and overstay you can also be in deep brown smelly stuff if caught. Even though you have Australian citizenship, you gave up those right the minute you stepped through immigration using a non-Australian passport. Same goes for Singapore.


So... it's pretty much the same as the US policy... which is why I never figure out how a person from SG that now has Aussie Citizenship can enter SG using SG passport when they exit Australia with their Aussie passport (I thought SG doesn't take Dual Citizen). It seem like a lot of SG people with Aussie Citizenship are doing that unless I read them wrong.

That was the reason why I thought Orangepi has to leave/exit Aussie with her Aussie passport and enter SG with Aussie passport - which clearly identify her as Aussie Citizen. When she decides to get a job in SG while she's there, won't she be required to review her SG citizenship when she's applying for a work-status permit?

On 2nd thought... I think Mad Scientist had addressed this... he had mentioned that she's able to enter Singapore using SG passport.

Confusing...

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 31 Mar 2010 3:21 am

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 31 Mar 2010 3:51 am

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Postby Tau Beta » Wed, 31 Mar 2010 6:15 am

Yes, it is a game of cat and mouse or Russion Roulette.
I am not encouraging anybody to do this but that is their choice.
.... Bukit Timah Hill
[/quote]

Sweet monkey! That makes total sense! That was THE answer I was looking for ‘cos everyone make it sound like it is legal.

Bukit Timah... I haven't heard that name for a long time. I don't quite remember where that is... wonder is it is near Queensway Shopping. I always felt SG as home by heart.

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Postby waz » Tue, 04 May 2010 8:06 am

On the Australian passport thing ....

Basically you need a VISA (PR or other type) or RRV (resident return visa) to enter Australia. However, if you are already an Australian citizen and have an Australian passport, your RRV becomes null and void. You will need to reenter Australia on your Australian passport.

My daughter stay in Singapore for 6 weeks to spend time with her grandmother - foreigner allow to stay only one month unless write to ICA IN Singapore. She was by herself, so we took another way .......

She was 15 then, and have both Oz and Sg citizenship. We bought her ticket using her Oz passport. She left Oz immigration by Oz passport. When she reached Singapore, she uses her SG passport.

When she check in on her return, she uses her Oz passport. At the Singapore immigration, switch to SG passport. And in Australia, back to Oz passport.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 04 May 2010 8:59 am

This is what most do. That way they are afforded the protection that they should enjoy as a citizen of that country. Get into trouble on the wrong passport, then, that country's passport affords no protection while in another country. It's a dangerous game to play and one could get burned. But, I know that it's done with great regularity as well.

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Postby Splatted » Tue, 04 May 2010 2:56 pm

john_nyc_71 wrote:If the Singapore government is aware that you have Australian citizenship (and I assume they do), then you have to renounce one, unless the law or the current practice is changed.

As far as I know, there is no law that says you cannot have dual nationality or hold two passports. All the law says is that if you have another nationality or passport, then this gives the Singapore government the right to revoke your Singapore citizenship.


I have a friend in this situation. His wife is a Singapore Citizen by birth, and they both received their Australian citizenships.

I don't recall his story how Sg government actually found out, but they did receive a letter asking his wife to renounce her Singapore citizenship. There was also an additional request (and you'll excuse me if I don't remember), but it essentially involved them spending money first in order to renounce her Singapore citizenship.

The wife wrote back and said something along the lines of "But I don't want to renounce my Singapore citizenship... so how?"

After that.. no reply any more. They figured the sg government put them in the too hard basket, because they have been to Singapore and back numerous times since. Noone stopped them, arrested them, fined them or confiscated passports.... yet.....

But I prefer not to assume anything in these sorts of things. Usually people are in for a nasty surprise if they expect things to turn out a certain way.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 04 May 2010 4:21 pm

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Postby Splatted » Tue, 04 May 2010 4:55 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:
Splatted wrote:
john_nyc_71 wrote:If the Singapore government is aware that you have Australian citizenship (and I assume they do), then you have to renounce one, unless the law or the current practice is changed.

As far as I know, there is no law that says you cannot have dual nationality or hold two passports. All the law says is that if you have another nationality or passport, then this gives the Singapore government the right to revoke your Singapore citizenship.


I have a friend in this situation. His wife is a Singapore Citizen by birth, and they both received their Australian citizenships.

I don't recall his story how Sg government actually found out, but they did receive a letter asking his wife to renounce her Singapore citizenship. There was also an additional request (and you'll excuse me if I don't remember), but it essentially involved them spending money first in order to renounce her Singapore citizenship.

The wife wrote back and said something along the lines of "But I don't want to renounce my Singapore citizenship... so how?"

After that.. no reply any more. They figured the sg government put them in the too hard basket, because they have been to Singapore and back numerous times since. Noone stopped them, arrested them, fined them or confiscated passports.... yet.....

But I prefer not to assume anything in these sorts of things. Usually people are in for a nasty surprise if they expect things to turn out a certain way.


Splatted

This was taken out from Attorney General of SG. I think is best to stick to this rather than hearsay as we might leading others to believe it is possible. It is not and never has. Not that I do not believe you but there is no substantial fact to say otherwise.

This was taken out from the Constitution Amendment after chap 133. Please read

* Singapore does not allow its citizen to hold dual nationality. Under the Articles 134 and 135 of the Singapore Constitution, a Singapore citizen may be deprived of his citizenship if he is 18 years old or above and has:

a) voluntarily acquired foreign citizenship, or having acquired such citizenship before the age of 18 years, continues to retain it;

b) voluntarily exercised any of the rights of the citizens of nationals of a foreign country, such as voting in that country’s elections; or

c) applied for the issue or renewal of a foreign passport or used a foreign passport as a travel document.
:)


yes, and my post wasn't intended to sway anyone into 'testing the system'. I'm just saying in the one and only example I know of, they are still waiting for a reply after refusing to renounce citizenship.

And I'll reiterate once more, people shouldn't assume or presume anything by this.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 04 May 2010 5:55 pm

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Postby cavalier » Wed, 05 May 2010 2:44 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Therein lies the rub. A child born in Singapore to mixed nationality parents where one is a Singapore female and the other is an American male gives the child citizenship by birth to both countries.


Actually, this isn't true in every case. If the parents are married, the father still has to have had a presence in the US before emigrating for the baby to acquire citizenship by birth. And if the parents aren't married, the father has to apply for citizenship for the child and show that a number of conditions are satisfied. It's not automatic.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 05 May 2010 3:55 pm

cavalier wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:Therein lies the rub. A child born in Singapore to mixed nationality parents where one is a Singapore female and the other is an American male gives the child citizenship by birth to both countries.


Actually, this isn't true in every case. If the parents are married, the father still has to have had a presence in the US before emigrating for the baby to acquire citizenship by birth. And if the parents aren't married, the father has to apply for citizenship for the child and show that a number of conditions are satisfied. It's not automatic.


Please have the courtesy to quote the whole paragraph when it contain further information about that which you are disagreeing with.

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Therein lies the rub. A child born in Singapore to mixed nationality parents where one is a Singapore female and the other is an American male gives the child citizenship by birth to both countries. This is the current conundrum. Most children of other countries are not given citizenship by right of birth when born in the other country, but are given as noted, citizenship by descent. Americans, however, are given citizenship by right of birth regardless where in the world they are born in as long as one parent is an American citizen by birth. In most other scenarios the country where you are a citizen by birth takes precedence over the naturalized/descent one. So, these minors are NOT required to take the Oath as they are citizens by right of birth.


It's been addressed here before. We tend not to bring up the finer points as it just takes too damned long to point out each and every scenario regarding the US and it's myriad laws. Suffice it to say, if an "American Citizen by birth" has as dual citizenship child because the child was born overseas, you can bet that in the "American Citizen by Birth" has had the requisite number of years of having lived in the US in order to confer those rights to the child. You can almost bet that that citizen will already be aware of that fact as well. I also don't believe I stated it was "automatic" either. Please read carefully.

We try NOT to confuse the situation here further than is absolutely necessary. Especially considering this particular thread is actually about Australian / Singaporean Dual Citizenship.


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