Singapore Expats Forum

Keeping both Australian and Singaporean (dual) citizenship

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taxico
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Postby taxico » Wed, 13 Jan 2010 12:16 am

Strong Eagle wrote:There is no 'grey'. There is only flying under the radar.


indeed!
Aut viam ad caelum inveniam aut faciam

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Postby Mad Scientist » Wed, 13 Jan 2010 8:33 am

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orangepi
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Postby orangepi » Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:13 pm

I am aware dual citizenship is not recognised in Singapore.

I guess the only way to sort this out is to go to the ICA and discuss what avenues or options are available to me.

Thanks to all for the advice!!

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 13 Jan 2010 11:25 pm

Please come back after contacting them to let us know approximately how many minutes it took before you were unceremoniously shot down by them.

:-|

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Postby Saint » Thu, 14 Jan 2010 8:46 am

orangepi wrote:I am aware dual citizenship is not recognised in Singapore.

I guess the only way to sort this out is to go to the ICA and discuss what avenues or options are available to me.

Thanks to all for the advice!!


That's like going to the police and warning them that I'm going to rob these addresses but could you tell me how I can get away with it and not get caught!

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Postby orangepi » Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:50 pm

:? :? what I meant by that was to discuss what my options were. I'm sure applying for PR would be another 'option' for me considering the fact I'd like to work in Singapore in future.

I am sure there will be other options available.

ultimately, i'd have to deal with them so they'd be the best people to speak to I suppose.
:?

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 15 Jan 2010 3:33 am

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Tau Beta
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Postby Tau Beta » Tue, 30 Mar 2010 4:15 am

Hi Orangepi,

Here is something I can share with you…. Mad Scientist is absolutely right. I almost suspect that he is a government staff monitoring this blog…..from his knowledge on immigration and military topic. Being new to this forum, I really enjoy his candidness and in-depth knowledge of immigration policies.

Here’s the scoop… I am an American of Asian decent. My wife finally took up US Citizenship in the last few years after many years of our marriage. Although her birth country and the US recognized Dual Citizenship, it was never easy for her. For a start, she needs to leave and enter the US using ONLY US passport. That should works the same way as you traveling out of Australia. As my wife enters her country, their immigration will endorse both her birth-country passport and her US passport since they accepts Dual Citizenship. This will not work for you as Singapore will not endorse your SG passport (if you have one) on your way in to SG. From SG perspective, you will always be an Aussie Subject. If you decide to stay in SG while you’re visiting or get a job offer, you will be treated like an Aussie citizen applying for a work permit. If you inform SG government of your SG citizenship, you will be required to renounce either SG or Aussie citizenship. If you renounce SG citizenship, you will never be allowed to apply for anything SG let alone Permanent Residency. By implication, you have betrayed SG and will never regain your residency/citizen status. I assume you will not renounce your Aussie Citizenship as you are a full bred Aussie. No one would do that if that’s your primary home.

Personally, I think you’re in a worst situation than most foreigners. At least they get to apply for PR if they are qualified to stay in SG. In your situation, you will be forced to make hard renouncing choices and if you let go of SG citizenship, I don’t think you can ever get to apply for anything SG … not even a bingo game. A big mistake by your parents for applying SG citizenships for you when you’re young.

I am not an expert but I’ve done extensive research on this topic. I grew up with multiple citizenships with parents and siblings of different nationalities and at one point even spent my childhood in SG. I have families in Taiwan, SG, and the US. I have learned that multiple citizenships do not pay. The international system is pretty well designed in such a fashion that one will be force to travel with one passport only and ultimately, will test your allegiance to ONLY one country. The notion of global citizenship and greed of having multiple citizenships to live in many places is just wishful thinking of many.

I came from a family of people with Dual Citizenship and eventually, all of us have dwindled down to one country largely based on where we grew up, where we had our universities education, and where we established our career after school – i.e. where our heart and allegiance are. I speak by experience. Hell, I even have a citizenship which I have no relationships to, no family ties, and have never stayed there. I have been trying to renounce the citizenship for years and they kept asking me to keep it for “fun”

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 30 Mar 2010 8:11 am

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beppi
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Postby beppi » Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:16 am

The Singapore government requires you to renounce one of the two citizenships, it does not (and cannot) require the other government to accept your renounciation.
There has been a case where a USA/Singapore citizen renounced the USA citizenship in a way that was NOT accepted and she could keep both in the end. I do not know if this is possible with Australia.
Of course you'll get into trouble if you actively utilize this other citizenship (e.g. by applying for or renewing your passport) and the Singapore authorities find out about it.

There have also been (very few) cases where Singapore wanted to attract certain top foreign scientists by offering them citizenship - and those were allowed to keep their original one. This might not apply to you, though.

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Postby Tau Beta » Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:43 am

Mad Scientist,

Thanks for the respond on Orangepi issue! Much to learn from you! My apology for inappropriate assumptions. Thanks dude!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:25 pm

beppi wrote:The Singapore government requires you to renounce one of the two citizenships, it does not (and cannot) require the other government to accept your renounciation.
There has been a case where a USA/Singapore citizen renounced the USA citizenship in a way that was NOT accepted and she could keep both in the end. I do not know if this is possible with Australia.
Of course you'll get into trouble if you actively utilize this other citizenship (e.g. by applying for or renewing your passport) and the Singapore authorities find out about it.

There have also been (very few) cases where Singapore wanted to attract certain top foreign scientists by offering them citizenship - and those were allowed to keep their original one. This might not apply to you, though.


So you also know of that case, eh! :wink: She made the right statement to officer at the time of giving them the letter and everybody knows you don't tell the US State Department what to do.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 30 Mar 2010 5:13 pm

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 30 Mar 2010 5:28 pm


"Minors who are Singapore Citizens by
descent/registration must take the Oath of Renunciation, Allegiance and Loyalty within 12 months on attaining the age of 21 years to remain as Singapore Citizens.

If the Oath is not taken, he/she will automatically lose his/her citizenship on attaining the age of 22 years.

Failure to take the Oath and the consequences
If one fails to take the Oath within 12 months on attaining the age of 21 years, he/she will automatically lose his/her citizenship on attaining the age of 22 years and there is no assurance that he/she can continue studying, working or residing in Singapore as a foreigner on any form of student pass, work pass, social visit pass or as a permanent resident.

Eligibility
Minors who are Singapore Citizens by descent or registration must take the Oath of Renunciation, Allegiance and Loyalty upon attaining 21 years of age and before attaining 22 years of age."


Therein lies the rub. A child born in Singapore to mixed nationality parents where one is a Singapore female and the other is an American male gives the child citizenship by birth to both countries. This is the current conundrum. Most children of other countries are not given citizenship by right of birth when born in the other country, but are given as noted, citizenship by descent. Americans, however, are given citizenship by right of birth regardless where in the world they are born in as long as one parent is an American citizen by birth. In most other scenarios the country where you are a citizen by birth takes precedence over the naturalized/descent one. So, these minors are NOT required to take the Oath as they are citizens by right of birth.

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Postby Tau Beta » Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:22 pm

It is true that a child born of at least one US parents is a US Citizen regardless of birth country and they are not required to take any Oath. Taking Oath was something very new to me from this forum. Hence, kids that were born in foreign land of expat US parents generally have Dual Citizenships.

I still wonder if Aussie are required to leave and enter Australia using only Aussie passport.


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