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Melbourne not safe for students, India warns

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Postby Splatted » Sat, 30 Jan 2010 8:01 pm

The latest murder of an Indian, was apparently done by fellow Indians

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/na ... 5824477004

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Postby Splatted » Sat, 30 Jan 2010 8:11 pm

revhappy wrote:The number of Indian students to Australia have actually plummeted by 50%!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8444870.stm


My wife actually works for a school in Melbourne that mostly has Indian full-fee paying students. Most of the refunds in student fees she processed in the last few weeks had to do with student visa applications getting rejected more than any other reason.

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Postby Vaucluse » Sat, 30 Jan 2010 8:38 pm

Splatted wrote:
revhappy wrote:The number of Indian students to Australia have actually plummeted by 50%!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8444870.stm


My wife actually works for a school in Melbourne that mostly has Indian full-fee paying students. Most of the refunds in student fees she processed in the last few weeks had to do with student visa applications getting rejected more than any other reason.

And:

The latest murder of an Indian, was apparently done by fellow Indians





Can't be . . . the Indian media has spoken
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Postby Splatted » Sat, 30 Jan 2010 9:19 pm

As one of the few people from this forum that is actually living in Melbourne still, I thought I might add my 5c worth

About a year ago I had a long conversation with an older Indian taxi driver, who had been driving for many years.

One of the things that was brought up was the huge taxi strike that happened back then when a young Indian student was killed. This student wanted to earn some extra cash driving a taxi in his spare time. He was killed during one of his first few shifts.

All the Indian taxi drivers parked their taxis on the intersection of Flinders and Swanston Street blocking traffic for many hours

The main problem he saw with these young Indians driving taxi's were that there were very new to Australia. They were not familiar with the Australian culture, and Australian way of life.

Many of the young drivers, in his opinion, were too hot-headed, and got into fights easily over comments by Aussies - things that a local born Indian wouldn't even be bothered over.

His opinion was that these fresh-off-boat drivers should have to live in Australia for at least 6 to 12 months first and acclimatise to the Australian way of life first before becoming a driver, and most of the incidences would be avoided.

Personally, my perspective on all this, having lived in both Australia and Singapore I have found Indians in Melbourne tend to annoy me a lot more than the ones I've met in Singapore.

I'll give one example, I was sitting on a train with my wife directly opposite me, and an elderly Indian lady saw the seat next to me and asked whether that rubbish on the seat was mine. It wasn't only the tone of the way she asked me, but also this stare , as if she was expecting me to own up to something.

I replied "No, it wasn't".

She pushed the rubbish towards me and then, and planted herself on the seat next to me.

My wife and I later stood up as our stop was coming up, and the lady that sat next to me commented to her friend to sit down where I sat, then said "oh becareful, there's rubbish on that seat", the very rubbish she pushed there.

My very thoughts at that that time were "Jeez, no wonder Indians are getting bashed with that sort of behaviour", but I didn't have the guts to say it out loud.

This is only one example, there are numerous others where I have been left asking to myself about them "oh, COME ON - you really can't be that inconsiderate, can you?", eg prams blocking entrances to trams so that people can't get on or off. Just common sense stuff that doesn't seem that common in Melbourne.

In Singapore, I've never had any issues with Indians, and my wife who is Singaporean also has noted the difference when we are in Singapore and Indians she's encountered in Melbourne.

I'm wondering whether it's purely due to a different economic class of migrants coming to Singapore versus Australia from India, eg unskilled laborers and construction workers arriving in Singapore mostly, while many students from rich families arriving to Australia, using their degree's to obtain Austalian PR's then sponsoring their families to also come to Australia.

The other thought I have had is it simply the 'freedom' that a lot of people have when arriving to Australia that they haven't experienced elsewhere where they can do and say whatever they like. In Singapore, if people behave badly, they get their photo taken and plastered on "Stomp".

Avoiding public embarrassment keeps most of the people in Singapore in check. In Australia, however, there's usually no such repercussions. People do as they please - until someone gets annoyed enough to confront the person.

Anyway, these are just my opinions only. Don't flame me.

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Postby Vaucluse » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:41 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8488817.stm


India holds two over Goa 'assault on Russian child'

Police in the Indian city of Mumbai have arrested a second man over an alleged sexual assault on a Russian girl aged nine holidaying in Goa.
The detainee, who was named as Aman Bharadwaj, was due to be brought back to the resort region on Saturday, police told Indian and Russian media.
A man named as Anil Raghuvanshi was earlier arrested in Goa.
The girl's mother said she had been distracted by one man while the other attacked her daughter in Arambol.
India's PTI news agency said the two men arrested had been working together as assistant machine operators in Goa.
Other alleged attacks on Russian tourists in Goa, one of India's most popular tourist destinations, have been reported in Russia in recent years.
The region was the focus of intense media coverage in 2008 over the rape and murder of a British teenager holidaying there.
Two men were held in connection with that case and were later released on bail as investigations continued


I can't find anything similar to the Indian media's outcry in Russian newspapers, the foreign ministry doing a Khrushchev, talks of trade embargoes . . . I'm sure the percentage of Russians attacked or killed in India is higher than vice versa . . . Two wrongs do not make a right, yet where's the condemnation or even the self-analysis by the Indian givernment?


Oh, the unfortunate Sikh who was recently murdered in Australia where the Indian media had an orgasmic feeding frenzy . . .

Three people were arrested for his murder . . . . all of them Indian nationals.

Where's the outcry in the Oz media over Indian killers in 'our' midst???


It's so easy to create a cocktail to blow issues out of proportion, one needs:

1) Mindless nationalism
2) An undereducated population (in this case of 1.2 BILLION)
3) A government feeding off the feeling of impotence that not being able to best one's neighbour for decades and decades (Pakistan)

Hey presto . . . let's burn some priests in their car . . . including their children . . . nice place
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Postby hg » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:18 am

Nath21 wrote:
But just to for refernce more australians are murdered in india than indians in australia each year....


This has got to be the most far fetched statement in this whole thread !!

India does have most murders in the world but it has enough of its own to kill without bothering about the few and far between Australian tourists (No Australian in his/her right mind will go to India anyway for studies or job :-) )

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Postby hg » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:27 am

Vaucluse wrote:1) Mindless nationalism
2) An undereducated population (in this case of 1.2 BILLION)
3) A government feeding off the feeling of impotence that not being able to best one's neighbour for decades and decades (Pakistan)


Without taking away some of the truth in your argument 1 and 2 (Although enough of that 1.2 Billion are VERY educated), the point 3 above just ruins it for you. What have you been smoking lately? That argument is applicable other way around i.e. to explain the unrest in Pakistan.

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Postby Vaucluse » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:37 am

hg wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:1) Mindless nationalism
2) An undereducated population (in this case of 1.2 BILLION)
3) A government feeding off the feeling of impotence that not being able to best one's neighbour for decades and decades (Pakistan)


Without taking away some of the truth in your argument 1 and 2 (Although enough of that 1.2 Billion are VERY educated), the point 3 above just ruins it for you. What have you been smoking lately? That argument is applicable other way around i.e. to explain the unrest in Pakistan.


I don't smoke . . . anything, it's against the law!!!! :)

The argument goes both ways, it is not exclusive, though the 'little guy' has more reason to be smug about keeping the big boy at bay and needling him at every junction. Don't get me wrong, please, I doubt many would see India as the 'bad boy' in this relationship, certainly not I.

Surely you'd agree that the many wars between India and Pakistan weigh heavily on both countries' consciousness . . . with Kashmir a festering sore on the face of Indian nationalism?

The impotence of a huge country like India to settle the dispute against a country so very much smaller and with a fraction of the population grates like sand in your board shorts.

As for:
Although enough of that 1.2 Billion are VERY educated


Oh yes, there certainly are very well educated people in India . . . but the flaming of xenophobia and crass nationalism is not directed at them, is it?

What I am saying is that it is easier to stoke fires in an undereducated or uneducated populace than a broadly educated one (though Australia has its fair share of westie trogs as well, of course, and I'm not only talking about the morons at Cronulla)
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Postby hg » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:30 pm

Vaucluse wrote:
Surely you'd agree that the many wars between India and Pakistan weigh heavily on both countries' consciousness . . . with Kashmir a festering sore on the face of Indian nationalism?



Yes, that's true. But the history of Indo-Pak relationship is too complex to be described by just the K-Word !!. US and its pro-Pak policy to counter India's early USSR leaning has played a big role as is current Chinese policy to use Pakistan as a counter weight against India's growing size and influence. Kashmir is NOT a cause for these troubles, its the RESULT of these troubles. (Output versus Input, if you get what I mean)

Vaucluse wrote:
The impotence of a huge country like India to settle the dispute against a country so very much smaller and with a fraction of the population grates like sand in your board shorts.


There you go again with that impotence argument ! Firstly Pakistan is not as small anymore. Its #7 in the list of countries with most people (compared to Australia at#55) and secondly, just for the record, India won each of those wars you mentioned. Its Pakistan Military junta that feels impotent for having lost a lot of land (Bangladesh) as a result of these wars and blames India perpetually for it. As a result they carry on with a singular national agenda. Its a complex socio-religious thing, something I will advise no one to venture out discussing without having their facts right. Sure, media on both sides is jingoistic and blows everything out of proportion but any one who believes that India has been the impotent one in all this, needs to get his head examined.

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Postby Vaucluse » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 2:40 pm

Care to examine my head? :? Good luck with that.

Don't fret, I am quite well versed in that part of history, but can't be arsed to go into detailed socio-economic explanations, but to say that India came away victorious is simply laughable.

And . . . ahem . . . whether you are number two or number 7 or 55 is a huge difference . . . Using real numbers is more credible.


Irrespective of which, the problem regarding the OP is still a matter of the government flaming the fires of nationalism to cover up widespread problems . . .
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Postby revhappy » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 3:47 pm

Talking about India and Pakistan there is this joke that circulates in Cyberspace:

God was in the process of creating the universe. And he was explaining to his angels ... "Look, everything should be proportionate. For every 10 deer there should be one lion. Look here my fellow angels, here is the United States. I have blessed them with prosperity and money. But at the same time I have given them insecurity and tension.... And here is Africa. I have given them natural beauty. But at the same time, I have given them climatic extremes.... And here is South America. I have given them lots of forests. But at the same time, I have given them less farmland so that they would have to cut down the forests... so you see, everything should be in balance. "

One of the angels asked... "Lord, what is this beautiful country here?" God said "That is the crown jewel. India. My most precious creation. They have understanding and friendly people. Sparkling streams, majestic mountains. A culture which reflects their great tradition. Technologically brilliant and with hearts of gold." The angel was quite surprised "But Lord you said everything should be in balance."

God replied "Look at the neighbours I gave them"[/quote]

Dog had a sense of humour at least, he called the Ganges a Sparkling Stream instead of the world's largest sewer. :lol:
Last edited by revhappy on Sun, 14 Oct 2012 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 4:20 pm

revhappy wrote:Talking about India and Pakistan there is this joke that circulates in Cyberspace:

God was in the process of creating the universe. And he was explaining to his angels ... "Look, everything should be proportionate. For every 10 deer there should be one lion. Look here my fellow angels, here is the United States. I have blessed them with prosperity and money. But at the same time I have given them insecurity and tension.... And here is Africa. I have given them natural beauty. But at the same time, I have given them climatic extremes.... And here is South America. I have given them lots of forests. But at the same time, I have given them less farmland so that they would have to cut down the forests... so you see, everything should be in balance. "

One of the angels asked... "Lord, what is this beautiful country here?" God said "That is the crown jewel. India. My most precious creation. They have understanding and friendly people. Sparkling streams, majestic mountains. A culture which reflects their great tradition. Technologically brilliant and with hearts of gold." The angel was quite surprised "But Lord you said everything should be in balance."

God replied "Look at the neighbours I gave them"


Dog had a sense of humour at least, he called the Ganges a Sparkling Stream instead of the world's largest sewer. :lol:

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Postby hg » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 7:53 pm

Vaucluse wrote:
Don't fret, I am quite well versed in that part of history, but can't be arsed to go into detailed socio-economic explanations, but to say that India came away victorious is simply laughable.



Oh yeah? and guess you are a bigger expert on this then all of Independent international experts. Read the Wikipedia on Indo-Pak wars (don't believe either side's govt's claims) and Google how Bangladesh was created in 1971 while you are at it.

Vaucluse wrote:And . . . ahem . . . whether you are number two or number 7 or 55 is a huge difference . . . Using real numbers is more credible.



I am not in the habit of putting my feet in my mouth and so usually check my facts before posting. See what talking through your hat has landed you into-

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_p ... population


Vaucluse wrote:Irrespective of which, the problem regarding the OP is still a matter of the government flaming the fires of nationalism to cover up widespread problems . . .


There I agree with you. I don't know enough of Australia's local culture and its "way of living" to argue with anyone who being a local must know more. On the same lines, I would recommend, you cut your loses and stop arguing with me, an Indian, on Indo-Pak history !!

Listen, this is just an Internet forum and people can say whatever they want (Like our good old pal SMS above who thinks Ganges is world's largest sewer !!). I usually leave posts where I have no value to add but at times the statements are so far off the track that its hard to resist.

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Postby Vaucluse » Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:39 pm

You're getting a mite tetchy there, hg, but as you and I share the same initials in real life I'll let it go this time. :)

Seriously, though, you make for a good exchange of views, thanks . . . just a tad tetchy.

I'm sitting at the airport, another hour before I board, so I'll just place my words after yours to avoid confusion.


hg wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:
Don't fret, I am quite well versed in that part of history, but can't be arsed to go into detailed socio-economic explanations, but to say that India came away victorious is simply laughable.



Oh yeah? and guess you are a bigger expert on this then all of Independent international experts. Read the Wikipedia on Indo-Pak wars (don't believe either side's govt's claims) and Google how Bangladesh was created in 1971 while you are at it.

I don't think I mentioned that I'm a 'bigger' expert than anyone, but don't let that hold you back from slightly exaggerating . . . but it does show that you let your emotions get in the way of presenting your point of view.
I am quite aware of how B-D came about . . . yet I'd prefer many other sources to Wiki


Vaucluse wrote:And . . . ahem . . . whether you are number two or number 7 or 55 is a huge difference . . . Using real numbers is more credible.



I am not in the habit of putting my feet in my mouth and so usually check my facts before posting. See what talking through your hat has landed you into-

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_p ... population

Again, you are bordering on insulting, but not to worry as it lets you down again. Please re-read what I said, or rather, I'll explain it again. It doesn't matter if it is the number two against number seven or 55. In this case the actual numbers are far more relevant . . . we are talking about 1.2 billion v. 200 million . . . the rank is relatively less important than the actual number.

Vaucluse wrote:Irrespective of which, the problem regarding the OP is still a matter of the government flaming the fires of nationalism to cover up widespread problems . . .


There I agree with you. I don't know enough of Australia's local culture and its "way of living" to argue with anyone who being a local must know more.

Not really, often locals know less of what is happening in their own backyard than informed people living across the globe.

On the same lines, I would recommend, you cut your loses and stop arguing with me, an Indian, on Indo-Pak history !!

You underline my point exactly. Being Indian, in this case, does not automatically give you more information about subjects, particularly history, than others. It is the research and accrual of knowledge from various sources that rounds out this knowledge.

Listen, this is just an Internet forum and people can say whatever they want (Like our good old pal SMS above who thinks Ganges is world's largest sewer !!).

You disagree that the Ganges is a polluted waterway? This information is readily available from scientific studies . . . and one need not be a local to know that.

I usually leave posts where I have no value to add but at times the statements are so far off the track that its hard to resist.

Agreed, but it should all stay in the realm of the positive. It is, after all, just an exchange of views.



Thank you again for the discourse, but we have strayed quite far off the topic
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Postby hg » Tue, 02 Feb 2010 6:39 am

Hey Vaucluse, I am glad we could sort that out amicably :-)

....and no I don't disagree that Ganges is a "polluted waterway" - much like Yangtze in China (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2006-05/30/content_604228.htm).

However to call is the "biggest sewer in the world" is typical Internet Forum sensationalization. Its like calling Pentagon the world's biggest toilet (it does have the maximum number of rest rooms. Isn't it?) :-)

Peace !!


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