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Vaucluse
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Postby Vaucluse » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 1:38 pm

I'm glad to see you two having a bit of a flatulence orgy . . . citing crimes occurring in Australia and basing your arguments on that.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that there is no crime in the country . . . of course there is . . . but to trace it back to genetics is simply ridiculous, though if KSL posts at 2am in this timezone one wonders the state of inebriation he was in.

Utopia, I don't know what country you are from, nor does it matter for this discussion, but do you find it slightly disingenuous to cite examples and then build a case study out of it?

Here's a good statistic which shows that Australia and Denmark are not that different in the incidence of murders:

Murders per capita: Australia ranked 43 and Denmark 53 number one spot: Colombia

Does this mean that there is a genetic connection between Denmark's history and this statistic today? According to you: Must be.

Are Danes not concerned about crime in their country? According to you: Nope.


I've been to Denmark many times while working out of Holland and France for over five years. Lovely people, lovely place in general . . . and I would be a prat if I were to try and make blatantly ridiculous statements for whatever purpose to disparage the place/
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Postby ksl » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 2:36 pm

Vaucluse wrote:I'm glad to see you two having a bit of a flatulence orgy . . . citing crimes occurring in Australia and basing your arguments on that.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that there is no crime in the country . . . of course there is . . . but to trace it back to genetics is simply ridiculous, though if KSL posts at 2am in this timezone one wonders the state of inebriation he was in.

Utopia, I don't know what country you are from, nor does it matter for this discussion, but do you find it slightly disingenuous to cite examples and then build a case study out of it?

Here's a good statistic which shows that Australia and Denmark are not that different in the incidence of murders:

Murders per capita: Australia ranked 43 and Denmark 53 number one spot: Colombia

Does this mean that there is a genetic connection between Denmark's history and this statistic today? According to you: Must be.

Are Danes not concerned about crime in their country? According to you: Nope.


I've been to Denmark many times while working out of Holland and France for over five years. Lovely people, lovely place in general . . . and I would be a prat if I were to try and make blatantly ridiculous statements for whatever purpose to disparage the place/


I don't think you are altogether off tangent, though to ignore a genetic connection is really a little naive because you are basically denying the fact races want to survive and they will do anything to protect that right.

I agree that we should be civilised enough to recognise the signals of right and wrong and most people do, again it is the weighing up the benefits against the punishment when it comes to crime.

The genetics DNA of humans is effected by triggers of social policies, crime is in all of us, weather you like the thought or not, murder is in all of us, too, if the right buttons are pressed. Why do you think some doctors deliberately kill their patients, why do you think some expert academic in psychiatry studies psychiatry, and why others choose the paths they do...why the Roman catholic church protects their own sexual abusers....all these hideous crimes are triggered by outside effects, could be pollution could be social policies, like taking kids away from their parents, just because some nutter of an academic has written a dozen books on the subject and now has the power to practise his wishes.

There are just to many variables that trigger the DNA to lay down the facts, though scientists are working on it.

Though I will agree with you and say their is no real hard evidence yet in humans, it is a theory and I'm sure their are thousands that will agree with it, and those that are outrageously against the idea, they appear to be the ones with blinkers on :wink: No offence

Vaucluse: KSL posts at 2am in this timezone one wonders the state of inebriation he was in
Just check for the spelling mistakes :lol:

My theory is based on animals that have been domesticated over a very long time, I don't see humans any different at all, they remain unpredictable when the right buttons are pressed some like the polecat can be very temperamental and a Chimpanzee can take your arm off with a machete.

Why do people hack others with a machete on one side of the world and on the other they stand and fight like gentlemen to settle an argument, others will not lower themselves to that level of uncivilised behaviour, though if attacked anything can happen.
Last edited by ksl on Wed, 10 Mar 2010 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Vaucluse » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 3:11 pm

You make a modicum of sense
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Postby x9200 » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 3:29 pm

Checked some other crime statistics at:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... per-capita
and they are truly weird. Australia scores 3rd place for rapists but Denmark is the 4th one for the total No of crimes... Curious is it all (not only these two) connected mainly with the severity of the punishment for particular crime and efficiency in execution of the law or also with something different.

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Postby ksl » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 4:06 pm

x9200 wrote:Checked some other crime statistics at:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... per-capita
and they are truly weird. Australia scores 3rd place for rapists but Denmark is the 4th one for the total No of crimes... Curious is it all (not only these two) connected mainly with the severity of the punishment for particular crime and efficiency in execution of the law or also with something different.


Again statistics are just that, they also need to be verified right.

at the bottom of the statistics

DEFINITION: Note: Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence. Per capita figures expressed per 1,000 population.

FACTOID # 12: In pure number terms, more crimes are committed in America than in any other nation. The same goes for burglaries, car thefts, rapes and assaults.Interesting crime facts » for a Country with high turnover of immigrants

I wonder if there is a correlation between crime and immigrants! My theory says yes there is, based on how well the immigrants Countries are developed, this isn't to say they are any better or worse, but to identify the level of education and poverty over all within a community.

The link below shows the stupid neglect and a waste of time and money on reoffenders.

The academics i believe screw up big time, when advising on social policies, without any real practical experience at the root of the problems again untried theories can be the cause rather than the cure.....A criminal needs very harsh punishment, harsh enough to scare the crap out of him, prison should be unpleasant, with education and skill upgrading

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8558802.stm
Last edited by ksl on Wed, 10 Mar 2010 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Vaucluse » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 4:18 pm

Seeing as I have a post-graduate degree in Economics I can tell you that this is a science based on allowing numbers to be interpreted according to the interpreters aims.

Lies, damn lies and statistics
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Postby nakatago » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 4:28 pm

Did you know that 37% of statistics are made up?

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Postby ksl » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 4:34 pm

Vaucluse wrote:Seeing as I have a post-graduate degree in Economics I can tell you that this is a science based on allowing numbers to be interpreted according to the interpreters aims.

Lies, damn lies and statistics
yes exactly, I studied economics too and couldn't agree with all the bullshit I was listening to, and i called it bullshit too which didn't go down to well at all. Though we are expected to hide the facts, to score browny points, which i couldn't do when i was with the refugee council, to save the closure of the office....Of course no other alternative but to take my 3 month resignation.

The manipulation of settled single refugees in apartments was then changed to kick them out so that more refugee families could be taken so the office wouldn't have to close. People in high places abuse the system too for browny points. I was actually working under cover, so how could i do both jobs of gaining their confidence and trust, to working against them, again ethics and i couldn't change mine to save my job.
Last edited by ksl on Wed, 10 Mar 2010 4:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Vaucluse » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 4:48 pm

nakatago wrote:Did you know that 37% of statistics are made up?


Latest figures put it at 39% . . . do your homework!
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Postby nakatago » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 5:01 pm

Vaucluse wrote:
nakatago wrote:Did you know that 37% of statistics are made up?


Latest figures put it at 39% . . . do your homework!


2% margin of error due to rounding errors introduced during the computation of the bullshit coefficient.

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Postby Vaucluse » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 5:22 pm

nakatago wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:
nakatago wrote:Did you know that 37% of statistics are made up?


Latest figures put it at 39% . . . do your homework!


2% margin of error due to rounding errors introduced during the computation of the bullshit coefficient.


True . . . well done, you graduate
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Postby Splatted » Thu, 11 Mar 2010 12:28 am

Vaucluse wrote:I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that there is no crime in the country . . . of course there is . . . but to trace it back to genetics is simply ridiculous, though if KSL posts at 2am in this timezone one wonders the state of inebriation he was in.


trying to link genetics to crime seems a bit of a dangerous line to be walking.

Not too dissimilar to some of the things said by KKK, Nazi's throughout history, and even Jehovah's witnesses in the past.

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Postby ksl » Thu, 11 Mar 2010 3:43 am

Splatted wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue that there is no crime in the country . . . of course there is . . . but to trace it back to genetics is simply ridiculous, though if KSL posts at 2am in this timezone one wonders the state of inebriation he was in.


trying to link genetics to crime seems a bit of a dangerous line to be walking.

Not too dissimilar to some of the things said by KKK, Nazi's throughout history, and even Jehovah's witnesses in the past.
That is why it is so controversial, everyone is terrified of the truth, how can a human stoop so low life in a civilized world, the answer is very simple, when governments don't respect the weakest links, they are going to break and society will pay its price.

While i was with the refugees, I'll never forget the bodies of several very young people brutally murdered by a Lebanese refugee, one was an 18 year old Tamil stabbed in a frenzy attack, another 2 from Iran was enticed away with their so called friend only to be butchered. What makes people do these things, is a conditioning of circumstances, you adapt to the environment and you survive, though for many it is too late, and they are in our peaceful societies around the world, just suffering the injustice of life and unfairness, its long term evolution for better or worse, that changes genetics DNA. It happens in all animals and plants, why should humans be exempt

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Postby Plavt » Thu, 11 Mar 2010 6:45 am

Maybe ksl should get the dictionary out and look up the meaning of the word genetics. Hey ksl ever heard of Eskimos? :wink:

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 11 Mar 2010 7:01 am

ksl wrote:adapt to the environment and you survive, though for many it is too late, and they are in our peaceful societies around the world, just suffering the injustice of life and unfairness, its long term evolution for better or worse, that changes genetics DNA. It happens in all animals and plants, why should humans be exempt

Not within the time-frame we are talking about in here. Particular environment (here social) may favour some individuals with specific genetically "preprogrammed" tendencies but you still need multiple generations living under such condition to have any solid impact (statistically significant :)) to the local gene pool. Especially that likely only a fraction of crimes are committed by people with genetic predispositions (if any present at all).


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