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Postby utopia » Sun, 07 Mar 2010 9:17 pm

Vaucluse wrote:.. to differentiate Australia from other forms of democracies in this regard is quite silly as the basic principles are very similar.

Agreed, who is differentiating Australian democracy?

I fail to understand where the people have failed, in terms of the law . . . can someone please explain that to me?


IF Australians wanted a changes in terms of 'resolving' the level of crime that Australia, then apparently, it hasn't been successful.

However, in this regard, there is no 'failing' of the people in terms of the law, nor of the democratic process that reflects the mandate of the majority of Australians


What I find sad is that I was relieved to see the name of the culprit . . .

From an Australian perspective I could see why there is relief.
If the culprit was not an Indian, the Australian brand name would take yet another round of bashing from Indian media and the term racist would once again be bandied around. Additionally to a certain extent, the death can now be considered as a non-Australian problem.

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Postby utopia » Sun, 07 Mar 2010 9:46 pm

Vaucluse wrote:Yes, and the guy has the gall to request bail and live in the same building as the parents of the boy . . .


Minor details admittedly, but I don't think the accused actually requested for bail to live in the same building as the parents.

Last I read, the parents of the boy are currently putting up at relative's home in Thomastown.

As for the accused, apparently, when he applied for bail, he told the bail justice he could stay at the friend's house in Melbourne's north where he was arrested this morning.

The friend told the police "because of the events that transpired today he (Mr Dhillon) is no longer welcome there" and an alternative contact number the accused provided was out of service.


Anyway, so far the reports on Indian papers have been pretty dry and reporting restricted to quoting AAP, although some comments have already started filtering through on :

http://www.indianexpress.com/comments/i ... er/587594/

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Postby Splatted » Sun, 07 Mar 2010 10:39 pm

utopia wrote:
I fail to understand where the people have failed, in terms of the law . . . can someone please explain that to me?


IF Australians wanted a changes in terms of 'resolving' the level of crime that Australia, then apparently, it hasn't been successful.

However, in this regard, there is no 'failing' of the people in terms of the law, nor of the democratic process that reflects the mandate of the majority of Australians



Australia can't solve the issue of crime, and hooliganism until it addresses the root causes.

Unemployment, low education (read: poor performance even if given opportunity to learn), ethnic ghetto's, and poor integration of immigrants with mainstream society (read: no willingness to integrate or even learn English in many cases) are a few of the issues that have to be addressed.

Personally, I know this isn't a popular comment for me to make and it can be confused as being xenophobic, but I think Australia should cut it's immigration intake drastically. The greater percentage of the intake should consist of skilled or investor migrants - people that can actually make a contribution to society rather than put a drain on it.

When I was in my late teens I used to live in public housing.

One thing you quickly get to realize when living in one of these government high-rises are that many of the people living there are fairly new immigrants.

To me, it doesn't make sense why the working class have 20 to 40% of their income taken away in taxes, only so that we can support all these people who are 'working the system' in their favor and getting a free ride.

Ok, I am generalizing a bit. Not all immigrants leach off society. But an unacceptably large subset that come here with nothing (no money or education), still have nothing years later, and are dependent on government handouts in one form or another. Either that, or they learn about insurance fraud for a quick buck. The northern suburbs have an amazingly high percentage of work-cover claimants.

These ethnic, low socio-economic class areas, have been the main hot-spots for a lot of the violence, and gangs forming.

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Postby ksl » Sun, 07 Mar 2010 11:36 pm

4/ and followed by ; how does the average Joe/Jane campaign for these changes to be executed?


Australia is a conservative country, with no democratic backbone, just like the UK, the easiest thing in the world is to change the title of a conservative party member, when public demand needs it, and we will call it New Labour! The backbone of any Country goes back generations, they piss in the same pot and play on the political merry go round, while joe bloggs is being screwed of his tax and his rights to protection. Police are seen as a business by conservatives, they have to hit financial goals, first before prioritising crime.

A strong democratic party is the only way, and even then, they will have to be strong enough to resist perky jobs in politics. Sorry Australia aristocracy will not let it slip so easy.

Again those that believe they have a democratic life in Australia are either not aware of what is going on, how the seeds have been planted in the years of genocide, and who truly runs the Country. The great Victoria years will take generations to break. Oh before I forget

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/br ... 1118824018

If one can immediately vote the PM out of office, by public demand for no confidence, you may be on the way to a democratic Country until that happens, you are at the mercy of politics and sheep. The way the government is politically defined is the problem. The UK looks like you can pass the PM job to your mate, if you become unpopular like Tony Blair did.

The sheep have no backbone, no real democratic leader, just foxes dressed up as sheep. No doubt i'll get some more love now :roll:

Arthur Scargill was probably the closest thing to democracy, though the government got to him eventually and explained to him how to play the merry go round, or get booted out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Scargill

Splatted is on the right track root cause and immigration control, welfare cut off by government, let charities deal with it, the weakest links will disappear over time, and you will have a survival race. Though the biggest problem of all is conservatism.

Crime is also difficult to manage in such a large Country. Aus can also learn from Singapore, in regards to ethnic segregation, they need to be split up to integrate like in Singapore, help groups and integration volunteers, with work skill colleges available.

Denmark's policy is good, they was too soft in the early days, and they cut the welfare drastically for immigrants, they gave them skills and many left back to their own Countries, to kick start business. The immigrant refugees were mostly financial refugees escaping persecution in Iran, kind of unfair on the genuine refugee and very difficult to disprove. Most are looking for financial security from welfare states and give nothing to the Country only headaches.

I did 3 years with refugees, I was attacked several times in the camp and managed to disarmed the lunatic, who really did have mental problems, due to heroine, the daily pressure is enormous to fulfill their demands and threats, its not a job for the weak hearted.

I was accepted into their close network, which was active in breaking down the social workers, by planned discussions and threats, to get what they demanded. Not all was like that.

The financial burden is enormous on a Country that is contributing a minimum 45% income tax plus union fees to support them and they give nothing back.

Unions in Scandinavia run the skills upgrading colleges which are essential, for all manual workers that need skills, and that includes using a shovel or cleaning with hazardous chemicals.

So self esteem needs to be addressed and delinquency in all working class areas world wide through respect of each other, otherwise you have revolt and punishment isn't really effective, breading hardened criminals, not forgetting that many from war zones have seen it all and probably committed serious crimes too.

Aus needs the experts in social integration policies and I don't only mean the academic kind, with no experience.

The actual resolve will be found outside of conservatism, it's team work and sharing the goals of winning with others, rather than being greedy and taking all, by whipping the butt off an ass.

That's why UK gets two fingers from the majority of hard working manual workers, there just is no respect for law and order, its a very backward Country in a progressive European network, because they hope to attract investment for workers, in stead of paying workers a livable wage, they will supplement the income and control the victim of circumstances, by filling out 30 pages of unemployment forms to get 40 pound a f-----g week. Crime really pays big time in UK.

It makes sense doesn't it, to academics, to sit down and think of how to dishearten the unemployed by asking a load of stupid questions some how I thought it would. :roll:

Anyway I gave up long ago on Britain and even UK football :roll: Though I will tell you I have a daughter in the next para olympics impaired eyesight in Judo, and as also just beat the US in Germany, in January and the world championship in Turkey this month, a girl I am proud of, and beat the shit out of her attacker an adult male paedophile who tried to drag her into a car at the age of 11 from the fish & chip shop queue.

I haven't forgotten, vigilantes stick together too when the laws don't work.
Last edited by ksl on Mon, 08 Mar 2010 1:01 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Postby Vaucluse » Sun, 07 Mar 2010 11:40 pm

utopia wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:Yes, and the guy has the gall to request bail and live in the same building as the parents of the boy . . .


Minor details admittedly, but I don't think the accused actually requested for bail to live in the same building as the parents.



I stand corrected, misread the text, apologies:

Dhillon applied for bail, offering to leave his passport and driver’s licence with police and initially telling the bail justice he could stay at the Mill Park house where he was arrested.

But Detective Senior Sergeant Iddles said police had spoken with the man’s friend and were told that ‘‘because of the events that transpired today he (Dhillon) is no longer welcome there’’.


Any suggestions would be welcome . . . we'll never have capitol punishment, thank <insert> . . . but explain to me how this is changed . . . and yes, many Australians would like to see harsher penalties . . .

IF Australians wanted a changes in terms of 'resolving' the level of crime that Australia, then apparently, it hasn't been successful.


Again, explain to me how this is achieved, according to you
......................................................

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Postby ksl » Mon, 08 Mar 2010 3:19 am

criminal negligence is a freak joke! That's why there are liquidators, god rules not the law in any Country when the law is against the majority population. EU V's UK. AUS is actually same mentality as the UK plus a combination of uncivilized perker's which is Danish slang for uncivilized individuals . I have quite often been called the name, with devastating results when commonsense couldn't fathom out the problem, that was a time with the Nazi youth of Denmark, who picked on the wrong opponent.

You expats really do need some lessons in local behaviour at grass roots level :lol: to integrate in Asia....no matter how long you have been travelling. SMS is a very good indicator of life here, that's also why I bait him, he's had to suffer the shit and get integrated or segregated in his life, for what he loves, some things we can relate too.
.
I have never ever dreamed that i could relate, to anything that hasn't lived my kind of life, they just do not know the other side of life. They are pricks living in a bobble and when it bursts, they will feel the impact.

In my 42 years of travel I have seen all I need to see, the happy husband, that thinks he has the ideal family life. is the biggest joke of all
yeah I'm pretty well pissed on Barons tonight and I only expect idiots to reply That's probably them that think they are happy :)

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Postby Vaucluse » Mon, 08 Mar 2010 9:12 am

Been hitting the sauce again, ksl? Or are you having another laugh, just an opinion which someone on here supposedly understands as humour?

ksl wrote:
In my 42 years of travel I have seen all I need to see, the happy husband, that thinks he has the ideal family life. is the biggest joke of all


Ah, his explains the bitter personality . . . marriage didn't work out. I am honestly sorry to hear that, no-one should have to go through that. I hope an introspective will have helped you manage.

ksl wrote:
yeah I'm pretty well pissed on Barons tonight and I only expect idiots to reply That's probably them that think they are happy


Ah, that makes sense then . . . and what a witty ending . . . how clever.
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Postby utopia » Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:57 pm

Thanks Splatted, KSL for your input and insights, it seems a valid start to address the migrant factor in the crime levels, as well as the dangers of a socialist ‘handout/welfare’ culture - “Good intentions that result in ineffective/negative results”

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Postby utopia » Mon, 08 Mar 2010 2:01 pm

Vaucluse wrote:
IF Australians wanted a changes in terms of 'resolving' the level of crime that Australia, then apparently, it hasn't been successful.


Again, explain to me how this is achieved, according to you


Alright, let’s exchange notes;

I’ll try not to overlap the points Splatted and KSL had already covered.

I would say Australians will have to start at the roots, by this I mean how children are brought up at home, how the parents get involved with the education process and teaching their children to have mutual respect to people, property, society, and the very authorities that were voted in by Australians.

Parents should be given both the responsibility and be empowered to discipline their children, without looking over their shoulder in the event they get reported for ‘child abuse’.

Children should learn, from home, and reinforced in schools, that rules are not optional or meant to be broken and it comes attached with disciplinary actions, which impacts them, and their parents, and their fellow classmates.

Schooling and education should be treated with far more respect and emphasis , and followed through with a system that covers all sorts of academic abilities through to 18 years old. – it is the greatest passport that helps break the poverty cycle.

Visits to drug wards should be organised to show the potential negative effects of addicts to children before they are seduced by it without complete knowledge of the effects.

(Public) Schooling systems should no longer work on ‘Lowest common denominator’ policy where one disruptive student impacts the rest of the class / school, and are learn early on that they can spit on impotent authorities.

If all the above fails, the deterrent for committing crimes should be exactly that – it should not ‘fit’ the crime, it should crush the seed of thought of even committing the crime.

Judges need to spend time in victim wards instead of reading a victim statement on a crisp piece of paper in the sterile courtroom so that they can understand victim impact and not just how going to jail will negatively impact the criminals future.

Criminals must not be allowed to use ‘victim card’ when their crimes effectively creates more victims.

Criminals must be corrected in a manner that will completely remove the idea of re-offending – for the criminal, as well as to be an example of a deterrent to other would-be criminals. In lieu of Corporal punishment / Capital Punishment , for example, complete with spending a couple of years in the outback or Mawson with hard labour instead of the ‘holiday camps’ with free reading material.

Additionally crimes do not have faceless victims - very often there are ripple effects to the victims and their families. The same effect should be replicated to the criminals.

Work on the ‘blood is thicker then water’ concept and allow for the threat of punishing the family of the criminal by enforcing declarations when applying for certain privileges, (eg : migrants) , that they will not be given to families of criminals.

It is also my view that dual nationality rule also given rise to part-time citizens without 100% commitment to work for the greater good of the country, where citizenship is potentially a club-membership, and dual citizens have always the option to flee to an alternate country if the Australian system doesn’t work for them.

To a certain extent, it is unlucky that Australia is geographically so safe, in that there are no obvious external threats that requires Australians to band or really work together ; Other than the chanting of Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi during sporting events. Dare I suggest; enforced SES duty, Civil or National Service ?

Assuming the next poster has the view that crime in Australia is a problem, I would be interested to hear is what other suggestions/solution is out there to address it.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 08 Mar 2010 2:08 pm

I think the Indian community jump the gun and point at racial hatred against them . The Indian press fanned it further to make the point that crime against racial line especially in the state of Victoria are rampant. In actual fact the one that this heinous crime is one of their own.
I think before someone accused or fanned crime along this line, one should calm down and take things in it own perspective.
Just to go that empty vessel makes alot of noise. BTW the off court session is due to Melbourne is on holiday today. The real court session will be tomorrow and it will interesting to see what goes on.

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Postby ozchick » Mon, 08 Mar 2010 8:21 pm

utopia wrote:

To a certain extent, it is unlucky that Australia is geographically so safe, in that there are no obvious external threats that requires Australians to band or really work together ; Other than the chanting of Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi during sporting events. Dare I suggest; enforced SES duty, Civil or National Service ?


Que? No external threats?! We WISH!!
Er... ever heard of a country called Indonesia? You know- that place just across the water to the north of us? You know the ones? They don't think like us, they have a different culture, oh- and they could eat us on toast for breakfast 'cos of their huge population and enormous number of armed forces?! And dare I mention that they don't like us ? (Yes the Aussie government dares to question them about their policies on numerous issues none the least of which is 'boat-people').

Ever thought about why successive Aussie governments always have to bow and scrape to the Americans and the British? Could it just be that since we are at the mercy of the Indonesians we might just have to be sweet as pie to those who might feel like assisting us if we did get attacked by the 'others' in our neck of the woods ?!
'Are you trying to tempt me because I come from the land of plenty?'

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Postby Vaucluse » Mon, 08 Mar 2010 8:33 pm

utopia wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:
IF Australians wanted a changes in terms of 'resolving' the level of crime that Australia, then apparently, it hasn't been successful.


Again, explain to me how this is achieved, according to you


Alright, let’s exchange notes;

I’ll try not to overlap the points Splatted and KSL had already covered.

I would say Australians will have to start at the roots, by this I mean how children are brought up at home, how the parents get involved with the education process and teaching their children to have mutual respect to people, property, society, and the very authorities that were voted in by Australians.



I'll admit to reading no further than this line as you are presupposing that 25 million people don't already do this . . . anything that would follow your presumption is, therefore, based on an incorrect and fallacious platform . . . unless you follow ksl's flawed genetic argument . . . which, I am hoping, you are too intelligent to do.
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Postby ksl » Tue, 09 Mar 2010 12:55 am

Vaucluse wrote:
utopia wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:
IF Australians wanted a changes in terms of 'resolving' the level of crime that Australia, then apparently, it hasn't been successful.


Again, explain to me how this is achieved, according to you


Alright, let’s exchange notes;

I’ll try not to overlap the points Splatted and KSL had already covered.

I would say Australians will have to start at the roots, by this I mean how children are brought up at home, how the parents get involved with the education process and teaching their children to have mutual respect to people, property, society, and the very authorities that were voted in by Australians.



I'll admit to reading no further than this line as you are presupposing that 25 million people don't already do this . . . anything that would follow your presumption is, therefore, based on an incorrect and fallacious platform . . . unless you follow ksl's flawed genetic argument . . . which, I am hoping, you are too intelligent to do.
35% of the population have a British connection which equates to over 6 million people that are mostly competitive and protective of their wealth, France has the same problem...The UK back in the 60's and USA cooperated with the mujahideens supplying them with arms and training to resolve issues by subversive measure, allowing these people to infiltrate our own back yard. back then all military training was based on the communist threat, over looking what was really going on by extremist muslims that we were training.

When the USA branded all grps terrorists, even the ones collecting donations in your own back yard, they double crossed the grps, that were helping in subversive activities in the Middle East. I was an observer in the middle east with the trucial Oman scouts at that time, though our country opened the doors for favours, openly risking national security. extremism of religion is the biggest threat to the world, and there is no way you can stop it, only delay it.

The seeds have been planted around the world long before i was born probably, what is at stake today is the destruction of those that had powers, like the USA, UK France & Germany.

You should really look into the breeding aspect and genetics of the social order v's survival...I asked a mate of mine, who had is own business why he voted conservative, his reply was that he had build his business under the conservatives thatcherite regime.

I recall it very well, because in 1978 when i left the military, she was telling the lazy British to get off their backsides and travel abroad for work, their is work if you look for it.

Though while one is working their bollocks off, there is a dozen mates siphoning the welfare benefits and talking about the idiots that work, crime is more favourable than working. No one wants to pay tax, they are made too. I was offered 500£ a week tax free, to drive a car full of drugs from A to B and refused on the basis, that you do the crime, you do the time, and i enjoy my freedom.

Though I was imprisoned, because i fell behind with my wife's maintenance, a civil offence, while the ex was a user and exposed my two children to it at the ages of 9 and 10, she was still allowed custody, i go to prison...their are thousands of fathers in the same boat. I'm bitter because the system is shit in UK and always as been, the social services new of my wife's addiction, leaving my kids alone at night while partying.

Luckily my daughter is much like myself and a survivor of the bad parenting, my son is well just switched off escaping his days in a world of his own at 38, I actually did a deal with my ex when he was 12, he came to live with me, though the damage done to him was too late.

Now at 38 and 36 the kids ask me why did i let them go through all that shit in their lives, and how can they be so f-----g perfect like their military daddy, its better to keep ones mouth shut. Yes I do believe genetics play a distinctive role in our lives and hereditary.

That is one reason why I stayed divorced for 23 years, while i chose my path, both my brother and sister did well at school, and nothing with their lives, sister went to Aus yes, to become a housewife depending on the husband, until he found something better my brother who was playing pro football and represented under 23's for England married someone that wouldn't wash is football gear, I find it quite amusing, he was a typical union man which I was not, I was the rebel, and a survivor that didn't need Thatcher.
I worked hard and long and played hard and long too, investing in my mothers home, only to have it destroyed several times by anti social behaviour.

I was at the point of seriously hurting some people, and discussed with the northern area chief of police, how to get the druggie squatters out of my property, they the police could not do it, though they did apologize for smashing the doors back and front to arrest some of them.

Those inside barricaded the doors so, i climbed through a small window with a baseball bat, and discovered several hiding in a closet, there was no need to use the bat, they freely took the barricade down and left. Though the house was totally destroyed.

Those days in the 90's where very hard times and i was on the verge of destroying some ring leaders, until i came to my sense and left everything behind me...Believe me, these trends will spread to all parts of the globe hand in hand with crime, drug pushing and extremism.

The middle east connection is just the start of Australia's problems, democracy can reduce the fall out, though I do not believe conservative methods concentrate on spending money to protect and educate.

Genetics for me was a logical thought process, without even knowing that it is being studied, how unintelligent is that. So I did a search and found a paper on genetics and social order

http://www.marxists.org/history/etol/ne ... o03/ab.htm

I have had 30 years of terrorism from all walks of life, including the police excuses, and local council academic dick heads, that couldn't organise a piss up at a chimpanzee party, and only make it worse, what I do have is experience in social problems, crime, and terrorism, and it never goes away, you have to leave first. Freedom of speech and the right to live in peace must go hand in hand with social responsibility.

There are lots of research papers on it. Denmark has had its problems even the area of Christiana experiment http://www.travel-images.com/photo/photo-denmark53.html a no go area for police.

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/denmark/cop ... hts/408896

http://reason.com/archives/2009/02/25/c ... -survive/1

It makes interesting reading though doesn't solve many problems, my attitude today is live and let live I can survive without government and i see quite a genetic jump forward in my daughter, who is half Taiwanese with, better grades in school than i could dream of.

Though she also has my rebel traits, and demands the respect from mom and dad at 9 years old. Mom always told me about the respect for the Indian that had a turban on his head, when i asked him what he had done to hurt his head to have such a big bandage...Parenting ethics and politeness, with the occasional whack on the ass, never harmed me, quite the opposite, though my peers calling me chicken lead to a stealing spree when i was 11, we got caught and i got the biggest pasting ever from my father with his leather belt, it was deserved and I never forgot it ever.

http://www.counterbalance.org/genetics/myth-frame.html

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Postby utopia » Tue, 09 Mar 2010 6:41 pm

Here's a quick grab from news.
9 March
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/bull ... 5838594211
Summary: 12 years olds bashing a fellow kid senseless.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/iway-robbery- ... -puz6.html
Summary : 15-year-old boy victim of attempted mugging by a youth with a black handgun.

10 March
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/teens-punch-a ... -pwdz.html
Summary : Canadian wheelchair bound tourist assaulted at a train station.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-na ... -pyfk.html
A murder in Victoria, Flemington.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/ma ... 5839245456
Man taking pictures of naked kids in swimming pool.

So, to quickly summarise,it's not racism when an Indian happens to be a victim, it is /just/ crime.
If you don't have a choice or want to stay in Australia, get used to it just like the rest of the Aussies have.

PS: KSL, you shouldn't be putting too much effort when the locals are happy with their situation. It's pretty much the same as telling Singaporeans that having one ruling party is bad for them. And because they are Asian, they'll nod politely and make the right sounds, while thinking to themselves that you are talking rubbish.
Last edited by utopia on Wed, 10 Mar 2010 1:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby ksl » Wed, 10 Mar 2010 2:11 am

utopia wrote:Here's a quick grab from today news.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/bull ... 5838594211
Summary: 12 years olds bashing a fellow kid senseless.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/iway-robbery- ... -puz6.html
Summary : 15-year-old boy victim of attempted mugging by a youth with a black handgun.

So, to quickly summarise,it's not racism when an Indian happened to be a victim, it is /just/ crime.
Get used to it just like the rest of the Aussies have.

PS: KSL, you shouldn't be putting too much effort when the locals are happy with their situation. It's pretty much the same as telling Singaporeans that having one ruling party is bad for them. And because they are Asian, they'll nod politely and make the right sounds, while thinking to themselves that you are talking rubbish.


You might find this interesting http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8558022.stm Though Ireland is much more advanced in terrorism and crime than most Countries, because the British have trained them without thought of the consequences for many years hereditary links will always come first, in times of dire straights though in general they do not cross the lines of religion unless they are very desperate, then arms are made available, its business.

I know for a fact one of our Bisley sniper worked for the other side, because of money back in 1970's because the pay was better per hit. Than a soldier could make in a month.

Criminals take advantage of disorder and will increase activities when police are compromised , the IRA had their own law and carried it out on criminal activity in a more effective way than the police force ever did..

Today I am sympathetic against all problems the empire caused for others, and when i think about it, I think about the shit the UK is in and other imperial Countries. The aristocrats are a dying breed, they cannot even pay for their protection, like they did 200 years ago with their private armies, and their wealth today as dwindled, so much that only the strongest can survive.

Though genetically speaking 200 years appears to be the average burn out date for aristocrats, so they are deeply worried of losing power. I am more than convinced Australia does have a bigger problem to face with crime from foreigners and human rights.

Though parental awareness needs more focus, punishment increased, with more skill upgrading facilities made available. When welfare benefits are more than a person can earn by working, crime will always be the option.

The minimum wage in UK doesn't cover the rent, everyone below the minimum wage are subsidised, welfare should be phased out, and the money spent in areas of improvement.

Send the message out that Australia is Australia and the strongest rule. though the power should be in the peoples hands, not the politicians. yes you vote him in to represent the majority for change, though the people should act to oust him in a vote of no confidence. Like England the people don't have that power!

Denmark does though, because it is a democracy, big difference between political policies
Last edited by ksl on Wed, 10 Mar 2010 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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