Sin Citizen/AU PR or AU Citizen

fortmax777 · Post by **fortmax777** » Wed, 09 Dec 2009 3:41 pm

Hi, I am new to this forum but thought the discussions going on here are pretty intersting.

Just a question:

I am 32 yo Sin male - completed full time NS (i.e. NSmen)
Got Aussie PR and Sin Citizen. Aussie recently asked if I would like to take their citizenship.

Currently, staying in Au holding Sin passport but have to renew EP regularly.

1. What do you think are the advantages/disadvantages of holding Sin Citizren/ Au PR or 100% Au citizen?

2. For how long can I keep renewing Ep before they want me back to serve reservist?

3. What are the consequences of obtaining Au citizen without informing sin.

taxico · Post by **taxico** » Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:09 pm

i think there's a thread within the last 12 months on a guy in similar situation as you, except he's much younger. also read about dual passport usage.

search for it.

some people think any "western" type passport is better than a singapore one. i don't think so - there're always tradeoffs. as always, i feel the singapore passport' is still worth keeping.

i've been to australia multiple times; beautiful country, with all sorts of things that'll kill you. i've never had a good trip there because of some australians.

you'll always be 2nd rate in australia. you know what i mean.

as long as you have reason to be in australia (work/study/medical treatment), eps can be used successfully for a long long time to avoid reservist duties, barring your unit running out of other soldiers to call up.

if you're caught, you'll prolly be sentenced in court (fined, then have your citizenship revoked. but if you do it right, and take your chance, you can get away with having 2 citizenships.

i recommend thinking long and hard about your future plans. you can always apply for australian citizenship down the road as a PR, but you'll never be able to get your singapore citizenship back.

so unless you know for sure...

fortmax777 · Post by **fortmax777** » Thu, 10 Dec 2009 2:16 pm

Thanks for your response.

My purpose is not to avoid reservist duty for the purpose of avoiding reservists duty.

See, I have settled in Aus - i.e. stable job, bought house with mortgage to pay, set up family etc.

I know that I can take up Aussie citizen anytime but I cannot retake Sin citizen if I give it up.

My concerns: If Sin decide suddenly to call back reservists settled overseas or refuse to approve EP for such persons

Consequences: Lose job in Aussie, sued by bank for house mortgage, parted from family etc etc

taxico · Post by **taxico** » Thu, 10 Dec 2009 7:34 pm

fortmax777 wrote:My concerns: If Sin decide suddenly to call back reservists settled overseas or refuse to approve EP for such persons

Consequences: Lose job in Aussie, sued by bank for house mortgage, parted from family etc etc

in that unlikely event, you could then apply for australian citizenship.

not too late either, i don't think.

Koalabear · Post by **Koalabear** » Thu, 25 Feb 2010 9:51 am

taxico wrote:
fortmax777 wrote:My concerns: If Sin decide suddenly to call back reservists settled overseas or refuse to approve EP for such persons

Consequences: Lose job in Aussie, sued by bank for house mortgage, parted from family etc etc
in that unlikely event, you could then apply for australian citizenship.

not too late either, i don't think.

He will no longer be able to set foot in Singapore again in that event though, knowing how vindictive the govt is.

If there is no tangible benefits in forfeiting your citizenship (apart from having to apply EP every year), I highly discourage you from doing so.

utopia · Post by **utopia** » Thu, 25 Feb 2010 1:56 pm

1. What do you think are the advantages/disadvantages of holding Sin Citizren/ Au PR or 100% Au citizen?

Negligible to none.
Unless you are intending to commit a crime in AU and don't want to get thrown out.
Or you desperately want to vote in their elections to show Rudd /Abbot what you think of them.
Passport-wise : http://richkao.squarespace.com/home/200 ... o-own.html

If you have a HDB, giving up SG = you'll have to give up HDB to a proper family nucleus who needs it.

If you have CPF, the advantage is that giving up SG you can get that out earlier. (but you'll never be able to work in SG again )

2. For how long can I keep renewing Ep before they want me back to serve reservist?

You can keep renewing until you are 40. It's a few clicks online and hardly any effort - other then remembering the date. Just apply for EP 2 years ahead each year, you can always terminate it if you get back to SG for good.
So apply up to end of 2011 now. Re-apply till end of 2012 sometime early next year.

3. What are the consequences of obtaining Au citizen without informing sin.

Well, you'll be lying, which is bad thing, especially when you sign the stat declaration when re-apply for your passport every 5 years.
So don't do it unless you want to risk being fined / jailed / never being able to see your family+friends in SG again.

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Sat, 27 Feb 2010 8:53 am

There are very few 'advantages' of having an Australian Citizenship over Australian PR.

After two years of residing in Australia, you have equal access to welfare benefits like anyone else.

Australian Citizens can vote - big-whoopy-doo, I got so many fines for forgetting to vote in local elections.

Australian citizens have access to HECS/HELP scheme which allows them to study higher education at a subsidised rate. Probably not relevant to you, though. It's my understanding PR's also have some form of access to the same scheme, but only after 2 years of residing and I'm not sure whether it's equal to what citizens get in terms of how much is subsidized.

As a PR you have equal access to the health system, eg Medicare card, health care card (if not working or if low income), immediately.

I would suggest to keep your Singapore Citizenship, and just keep an Australian PR. Australian PR's don't expire like what Singapore ones do.

Mad Scientist · Post by **Mad Scientist** » Mon, 01 Mar 2010 4:01 am

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Vaucluse · Post by **Vaucluse** » Mon, 01 Mar 2010 2:51 pm

Splatted wrote: Australian PR's don't expire like what Singapore ones do.

Incorrect. You may stay outside Australia for five years, anything more and your 'Permanent' status will be come zero. Your residence period, upon renewal, is determined by the amount of time you spend in the country .

(This used to be the case and I don't believe they have changed the rules on that. New Zealand has a non-expiry PR status)

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Mon, 01 Mar 2010 6:01 pm

Vaucluse wrote:
Splatted wrote: Australian PR's don't expire like what Singapore ones do.
Incorrect. You may stay outside Australia for five years, anything more and your 'Permanent' status will be come zero. Your residence period, upon renewal, is determined by the amount of time you spend in the country .

(This used to be the case and I don't believe they have changed the rules on that. New Zealand has a non-expiry PR status)

Yes, you are right.

I should have clarified what I meant by permanent visa not expiring.

In Australia, if you are granted a PR, you are eligible to reside in Australia permanently. Leaving Australia, you do need to apply for the equivalent of a 're-entry permit' as what Singapore issues.

However, if one's circumstances change, such as unemployment or even long-term unemployment, your visa status is not at risk in Australia. Please feel free to correct any misconception of mine, but I have been lead to believe Singapore's permanent residency isn't so secure in this respect.

I'm not too sure what you meant by "Your residence period, upon renewal, is determined by the amount of time you spend in the country". The visa sticker placed in the Singapore passport states "Holder(s) permitted to stay in Australia indefinitely", despite the visa's deadline for return to Australia (5 years).

Mad Scientist · Post by **Mad Scientist** » Tue, 02 Mar 2010 3:12 am

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Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Tue, 02 Mar 2010 9:58 am

Mad Scientist wrote:
Splatted wrote: I'm not too sure what you meant by "Your residence period, upon renewal, is determined by the amount of time you spend in the country". The visa sticker placed in the Singapore passport states "Holder(s) permitted to stay in Australia indefinitely", despite the visa's deadline for return to Australia (5 years).
Let me clarify . Most countries including SG, has a residence permit and reentry permit in some form or another. This means you can reside and work if you a PR. However you need a valid reentry permit to reenter once you leave for a longer period of time the country of your PR Status.
Some has a indefinite residence permit if you live there but the reentry permit has to be renewed after a couple of years which will normally coincide with your passport validity.
It is usually written on the sticker that sticks on the passport page.
You can leave the country of your PR status but usually there is a minimum number of days per year that you have to be in that country in order your reentry permit is valid or can be renewed.
The country that grants you the PR status wants you to work and contribute into its economy NOT collecting PRs just for the sake of having one and scoot when the tough gets going
The rules pretty much similar to many countries that grants PR status

So, let me see if I understood correctly.

This visa sticker that states my wife can reside indefinitely in Australia, upon it's expiry (or upon our reapplication for a new one) in 5 years time, the Australian Department of Immigration will review her residency status and take it away if they think she hasn't lived in Australia long enough?

Or is it take away her freedom to leave Australia at her choosing, without relinquishing her PR status?

Is that how it works?

Mad Scientist · Post by **Mad Scientist** » Tue, 02 Mar 2010 10:11 am

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utopia · Post by **utopia** » Tue, 02 Mar 2010 11:15 am

Basically you'll need to show you've stayed 2 years out of the last 5 years to renew PR.
Alternatively you need to show "evidence of substantial ties"

The PR-visa IS indefinite, if I'm not mistaken is contains 'must not arrive after X date' So long as you are IN Australia by X date, you can remain IN Australia indefinitely, (without even renewing the PR-visa; which is fine so long as you never, ever have to step out off Australian soil.)

Jeppo · Post by **Jeppo** » Tue, 02 Mar 2010 12:33 pm

Splatted wrote:This visa sticker that states my wife can reside indefinitely in Australia, upon it's expiry (or upon our reapplication for a new one) in 5 years time, the Australian Department of Immigration will review her residency status and take it away if they think she hasn't lived in Australia long enough?

Or is it take away her freedom to leave Australia at her choosing, without relinquishing her PR status?

Is that how it works?

Are you an Aussie? If so, then I don't think you need to worry. In the last 5 years my wife and I (I'm an Aussie) have spent no more than 1 month in Aus, and she renewed her entry permit at the end of last year with no problem at all, took less than 1 week to get the new sticker.

I believe the others are talking about skilled migration and not PR based on family ties which tend to have different criteria.

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