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EP rejection

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fahmysing
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EP rejection

Postby fahmysing » Wed, 18 Nov 2009 1:37 am

Hi All,

I would like to have some advice from the experts.

I recently got a Job offer with a Company and when my EP was applied, it got rejected. I am on the higher side of Q1 pay. When I came to Singapore in 2007, the application was similar and was on the lower side of Q1 which was approved back then. I don't really understand.

I went to MOM and they told me that my application does not meet there criteria. I applied with my degree only.

Do you think an appeal would help if I added several Professional Certificates and added a foreign Language as a plus language? The language will only be helpful if the Company is willing to justify as they have offices which my skill of language can be of help.

Your kind assistance is much appreciated.

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Re: EP rejection

Postby ksl » Wed, 18 Nov 2009 1:50 am

fahmysing wrote:Hi All,

I would like to have some advice from the experts.

I recently got a Job offer with a Company and when my EP was applied, it got rejected. I am on the higher side of Q1 pay. When I came to Singapore in 2007, the application was similar and was on the lower side of Q1 which was approved back then. I don't really understand.

I went to MOM and they told me that my application does not meet there criteria. I applied with my degree only.

Do you think an appeal would help if I added several Professional Certificates and added a foreign Language as a plus language? The language will only be helpful if the Company is willing to justify as they have offices which my skill of language can be of help.

Your kind assistance is much appreciated.
The more documentaion of your skills the better, that's what it is all about, you have to outperform the locals in every way you can to justify the EP. Though it all depends on the position too! My guess is most online applications will be rejected today without a very good reason.
Last edited by ksl on Wed, 18 Nov 2009 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

fahmysing
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Re: EP rejection

Postby fahmysing » Wed, 18 Nov 2009 1:53 am

ksl wrote: The more documentaion of your skills the better, that's what it is all about, you have to outperform the locals in every way you can to justify the EP. Though it all depends on the position too!


Many Thanks,What if they said chances are slim or is that just a formality thinking I dont have anything to add?

Furthermore,its an IT job and I have MCSE,CCNA,ITIL and Microsoft Office Suite Certs that i did not mention anywhere in the application. Will this help?

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Re: EP rejection

Postby ksl » Wed, 18 Nov 2009 2:01 am

fahmysing wrote:
ksl wrote:
fahmysing wrote:Hi All,

I would like to have some advice from the experts.

I recently got a Job offer with a Company and when my EP was applied, it got rejected. I am on the higher side of Q1 pay. When I came to Singapore in 2007, the application was similar and was on the lower side of Q1 which was approved back then. I don't really understand.

I went to MOM and they told me that my application does not meet there criteria. I applied with my degree only.

Do you think an appeal would help if I added several Professional Certificates and added a foreign Language as a plus language? The language will only be helpful if the Company is willing to justify as they have offices which my skill of language can be of help.

Your kind assistance is much appreciated.
The more documentaion of your skills the better, that's what it is all about, you have to outperform the locals in every way you can to justify the EP. Though it all depends on the position too!


Many Thanks,What if they said chances are slim or is that just a formality thinking I dont have anything to add?
My guess is that it depends on many other factors, not just your application. Is it a new company, why do they want you, are they also employing locals, not that it is governed by quota. But MOM have a reason, if it is criteria, then you must have failed to submit enough information for that job. You will need the Company to explain your significance for them, it's for them to convince MOM, that you can contribute enough to further employment chances. SMS would be the best one to answer these questions, he's HR

fahmysing
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Re: EP rejection

Postby fahmysing » Wed, 18 Nov 2009 2:04 am

ksl wrote:
fahmysing wrote:
ksl wrote:
fahmysing wrote:Hi All,

I would like to have some advice from the experts.

I recently got a Job offer with a Company and when my EP was applied, it got rejected. I am on the higher side of Q1 pay. When I came to Singapore in 2007, the application was similar and was on the lower side of Q1 which was approved back then. I don't really understand.

I went to MOM and they told me that my application does not meet there criteria. I applied with my degree only.

Do you think an appeal would help if I added several Professional Certificates and added a foreign Language as a plus language? The language will only be helpful if the Company is willing to justify as they have offices which my skill of language can be of help.

Your kind assistance is much appreciated.
The more documentaion of your skills the better, that's what it is all about, you have to outperform the locals in every way you can to justify the EP. Though it all depends on the position too!


Many Thanks,What if they said chances are slim or is that just a formality thinking I dont have anything to add?
My guess is that it depends on many other factors, not just your application. Is it a new company, why do they want you, are they also employing locals, not that it is governed by quota. But MOM have a reason, if it is criteria, then you must have failed to submit enough information for that job. You will need the Company to explain your significance for them, it's for them to convince MOM, that you can contribute enough to further employment chances.


Its not a new Company and its a well established MNC. A third party was used to apply my EP. As for the application, I did not submit anything apart from my degree which I have several Professional Certifications that i have acquired in and out of Singapore.Furthermore,they only have two sections for education. How was I to add others?

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Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 18 Nov 2009 2:51 am

You should definitely appeal... or at least, your company should.

a) Review exactly what it is that the 3rd party supplied... some of these companies are very poor... what you think got submitted may not have been submitted at all. If necessary, make an appointment with MOM to determine exactly what was submitted on your behalf.

b) Correct any mistakes from a) above.

c) Definitely, flesh out your qualifications with certificates, languages, additional skills. It builds you as the candidate.

d) Your company needs to requalify the job description to take advantage of your special talents... seriously, the company should state that they have branch offices where your language is spoken and they may require trips, translations, etc. If your certifications are at all relevant, the job description should also indicate that such certifications are preferred.

Maybe it's good that it was a third party... you can always blame them for not submitting the 'complete' package the first time.

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Postby fahmysing » Wed, 18 Nov 2009 2:56 am

Strong Eagle wrote:You should definitely appeal... or at least, your company should.

a) Review exactly what it is that the 3rd party supplied... some of these companies are very poor... what you think got submitted may not have been submitted at all. If necessary, make an appointment with MOM to determine exactly what was submitted on your behalf.

b) Correct any mistakes from a) above.

c) Definitely, flesh out your qualifications with certificates, languages, additional skills. It builds you as the candidate.

d) Your company needs to requalify the job description to take advantage of your special talents... seriously, the company should state that they have branch offices where your language is spoken and they may require trips, translations, etc. If your certifications are at all relevant, the job description should also indicate that such certifications are preferred.

Maybe it's good that it was a third party... you can always blame them for not submitting the 'complete' package the first time.


Thanks for the heads up mate. The third party agent is pretty helpful so far. I shall speak to the Company to see what can be done. I am very puzzled by the situation but at least some feedback here keeps my hopes high. But what are the chances an appeal would be successful?

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Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 18 Nov 2009 3:13 am

fahmysing wrote:But what are the chances an appeal would be successful?


The gods don't allow mere mortals to know such things, and with the current populist backlash against ferriners, maybe not as good as before. But, maybe not so bad, either.

Should also try to find out what criteria changed since you did have an EP before... although they probably won't tell you this. Criteria will probably be the same, total points required to qualify will have been increased, so must get more boxes checked or higher weighting numbers. A successful appeal could be made on more than just meeting the criteria... might be up to the appeals officer... but that is pure speculation on my part.

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Postby fahmysing » Wed, 18 Nov 2009 3:17 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
fahmysing wrote:But what are the chances an appeal would be successful?


The gods don't allow mere mortals to know such things, and with the current populist backlash against ferriners, maybe not as good as before. But, maybe not so bad, either.

Should also try to find out what criteria changed since you did have an EP before... although they probably won't tell you this. Criteria will probably be the same, total points required to qualify will have been increased, so must get more boxes checked or higher weighting numbers. A successful appeal could be made on more than just meeting the criteria... might be up to the appeals officer... but that is pure speculation on my part.


Thanks again. I guess I just have to follow the procedure and polish up my application with any other certs that I did not add earlier with the help of Company HR. Lets hope all will be well. I dont know if anyone here has had a similar situation.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 18 Nov 2009 7:02 am

All might want to take heed.


Yesterday I tried to change 4 of my S pass holders from one company to one of our other companies. This is normally not a problem, as long as we have sufficient quotas. The company I was transferring these four staff to has plenty of quota available and no problems with MOM and putting any class of foreign worker into it.

Two of these guys are currently pending. The other two, who have been with me for over a year, were rejected outright for qualifications. Both were okay the first time around. So it looks like things are tightening up a whole lot. We are in uncharted territory at the moment. But it would appear that unless you are able to jump at least 1 level, you are going to have problems. Might be some new criteria that MOM has inserted in the application process for renewals? Will let you guys know as I find out more.

Added:

Having the employer re-write the job description / why individual is not going to make any difference. (both of my companies are exactly the same with the same skill set (and this time the guys have experience in the industry-which they didn't have previously). So, this is exactly what is being sent back to those who are being rejected on renewal/reapplications:


Application Status : REJECTED
Pass Type : S PASS
Date of Outcome : 17/11/2009
Date of Application : 17/11/2009
Submission User : SMS
Submission Organisation: SMS's employer Pte Ltd

We regret to inform you that your application is unsuccessful for the following reason(s):

1. The prospective employee does not meet our criteria for approval. We take into account a set of factors that include salary, work experience, qualifications and skills profile of the candidate. You are advised to look for another candidate. You may wish to make use of the Employment/S Pass Self-Assessment Tool available on the MOM website to assess the likelihood of the candidate qualifying for an Employment Pass or S Pass, before submitting an application.

Disclaimer:

The reasons(s) for rejection displayed is accurate as at the time of rejection.



You will also note that the reference to the Self-Assessment Tool indicates that it will only advise on the "likelihood" and is NOT an indication that the individual is ultimately qualified. Also, the bolded & underlined bit is by them on the rejection notice. Job seekers would be well advised to read for content when reading MOM websites. I've said this many times in the past but just like the MOM sites. The readers like to gloss over these salient facts.

It's getting rough guys!

sms

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Postby fahmysing » Wed, 18 Nov 2009 3:00 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:All might want to take heed.


Yesterday I tried to change 4 of my S pass holders from one company to one of our other companies. This is normally not a problem, as long as we have sufficient quotas. The company I was transferring these four staff to has plenty of quota available and no problems with MOM and putting any class of foreign worker into it.

Two of these guys are currently pending. The other two, who have been with me for over a year, were rejected outright for qualifications. Both were okay the first time around. So it looks like things are tightening up a whole lot. We are in uncharted territory at the moment. But it would appear that unless you are able to jump at least 1 level, you are going to have problems. Might be some new criteria that MOM has inserted in the application process for renewals? Will let you guys know as I find out more.

Added:

Having the employer re-write the job description / why individual is not going to make any difference. (both of my companies are exactly the same with the same skill set (and this time the guys have experience in the industry-which they didn't have previously). So, this is exactly what is being sent back to those who are being rejected on renewal/reapplications:


Application Status : REJECTED
Pass Type : S PASS
Date of Outcome : 17/11/2009
Date of Application : 17/11/2009
Submission User : SMS
Submission Organisation: SMS's employer Pte Ltd

We regret to inform you that your application is unsuccessful for the following reason(s):

1. The prospective employee does not meet our criteria for approval. We take into account a set of factors that include salary, work experience, qualifications and skills profile of the candidate. You are advised to look for another candidate. You may wish to make use of the Employment/S Pass Self-Assessment Tool available on the MOM website to assess the likelihood of the candidate qualifying for an Employment Pass or S Pass, before submitting an application.

Disclaimer:

The reasons(s) for rejection displayed is accurate as at the time of rejection.



You will also note that the reference to the Self-Assessment Tool indicates that it will only advise on the "likelihood" and is NOT an indication that the individual is ultimately qualified. Also, the bolded & underlined bit is by them on the rejection notice. Job seekers would be well advised to read for content when reading MOM websites. I've said this many times in the past but just like the MOM sites. The readers like to gloss over these salient facts.

It's getting rough guys!

sms


Thanks SMS. This is some enlightening information. So how are you suggesting to move forward with the two rejected S Pass as they are sailing in the same boat as me. As said earlier, I only applied with Degree and not any other professional cert. And they have only two sections for education,if a person has several,they wont even fit. So is an appeal letter required or to have a justification in the appeal form?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 18 Nov 2009 3:51 pm

You are wasting you time. It is an exercise in futility.

My two guys? They will work out their remaining time in the current company until their passes expire. We will try to renew them again at that time. If it happens, great. If it doesn't? We will be buying them a ticket back to their country of origin. Nothing else we can do.

Employers cannot get hung up on individuals (sorry to sound brutal here) as they have a business to run. I'm losing 19 staff this month due to the loss of a contract (tender). At the moment, I'm heavily overstaffed (total manpower) in one company, over quota (foreign:local ratio) in one and trying to shift some of those S pass holders into a third that has plenty of quota. But I'm having problems because if I don't get them shifted to another company before Monday, MOM will cancel them at will and I'll be sidelined for applications for 6 months for that company by MOM. So, I either get them moved if possible or make enough of them redundant to fall within quota. It's not a pleasant task to have to do but how? As someone who was out of work in 2004-05 for 15 months, I know what it's like but anybody who goes to work overseas MUST realize the the host country will always protect it's citizens FIRST and rightly so.

sms

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Postby fahmysing » Wed, 18 Nov 2009 4:01 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:You are wasting you time. It is an exercise in futility.

My two guys? They will work out their remaining time in the current company until their passes expire. We will try to renew them again at that time. If it happens, great. If it doesn't? We will be buying them a ticket back to their country of origin. Nothing else we can do.

Employers cannot get hung up on individuals (sorry to sound brutal here) as they have a business to run. I'm losing 19 staff this month due to the loss of a contract (tender). At the moment, I'm heavily overstaffed (total manpower) in one company, over quota (foreign:local ratio) in one and trying to shift some of those S pass holders into a third that has plenty of quota. But I'm having problems because if I don't get them shifted to another company before Monday, MOM will cancel them at will and I'll be sidelined for applications for 6 months for that company by MOM. So, I either get them moved if possible or make enough of them redundant to fall within quota. It's not a pleasant task to have to do but how? As someone who was out of work in 2004-05 for 15 months, I know what it's like but anybody who goes to work overseas MUST realize the the host country will always protect it's citizens FIRST and rightly so.

sms


Thanks mate..At least we have to try...You never know if you don't try.

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Postby econoMIC » Wed, 18 Nov 2009 5:35 pm

fahmysing wrote:...Thanks mate..At least we have to try...You never know if you don't try.


Give it a try submitting all your docs and certs. That should have been done from the start already. I always keep saying: you want something from them, not the other way around, so make sure you give them everything that works in your favour. Fingers crossed it will work then. However do not get your hopes up too high because as SMS already explained, the outcome might not change.

Good luck.
a.k.a. littlegreenman


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