Basal racism in Singapore

[blued3838]

How did the person know the OP policitics? He looked an an 'ang moh' of some description, made an assumption, and decided to act on it. Pretty simple, and a fact of daily life.

I'll have to agree with Vincent Mothballs, blued3838 post clearly rang of 'ang-kart-ism' . Additionally, I can't condone of ev-disinfection's post implying 'hurt' either. And skipped the other 3 pages of apologies.

Firstly, it's clear that that person was a lunatic. He was probably a racist as well. But clearly, he was a lunatic, just like every country, you get some. Cue news articles of Australians spitting into cars driven by Asians, asking them to 'go back home', and many, many more.

Secondly, spitting IS an offense in SG, and if the OP did get the police involved, you can rest assured in SG, it would dealt with. One wonders how the exact same scenario would be played out in AU.

Thirdly, imo, any 'basal' racism you happen to find in SG is about no more then what you would get in AU as a 'non-'local'-looking individual.

Lastly, and off the track, what are the chances that the OP , being an 'ang moh' looking of some description, probably had some/many 'positive' racism in SG from the locals (possibly with what Vincent Mothballs has termed RCIC ). I doubt if we'll see a rant about those experiences.

Ang Kart Ism? Look, we are not working and playing office politics to try to gain promotion or bigger bonuses here. Whats there to ang kart about?

This is a forum where people air their views about general topics. If someone says, you are ang kart ing by agreeing with what mothball says, wont you feel that that is an absurd comment?

[Vaucluse]

However, there are some good points about being Asian and that we value our family and close ones more. Asians tend to hold onto ''guan xi'' more.

Let me tell you this, I am proud of being Chinese! So dont tell me otherwise! What RCIC? RCSC? Dont even start with me.

Whoa there Bluey!

Of course there are good points about Asians . . . what a ridiculous notion to say otherwise.

Umm, regarding the 'Asian Family Values' thing . . . you may wish to not include that as it is bullshit.


So, you re proud to be Chinese? Why?

Can I be proud to be White? Or would that be tantamount to superiority and racism?

[blued3838]

However, there are some good points about being Asian and that we value our family and close ones more. Asians tend to hold onto ''guan xi'' more.

Let me tell you this, I am proud of being Chinese! So dont tell me otherwise! What RCIC? RCSC? Dont even start with me.

Whoa there Bluey!

Of course there are good points about Asians . . . what a ridiculous notion to say otherwise.

Umm, regarding the 'Asian Family Values' thing . . . you may wish to not include that as it is bullshit.


So, you re proud to be Chinese? Why?

Can I be proud to be White? Or would that be tantamount to superiority and racism?

Hi,

OK, that part about the ''Asian Family Values'' is just relatively speaking as there are relatively more Asians living with parents etc but of course there are also non-asians who are fillial too, so perhaps I will take that comment back.

I'm proud to be Chinese because I am Chinese, no other reason.

As for whether or not what you said is tantamount to superiority and racism? You might like to ask the person who started the comment about RCSC etc.

[Vaucluse]

However, there are some good points about being Asian and that we value our family and close ones more. Asians tend to hold onto ''guan xi'' more.

Let me tell you this, I am proud of being Chinese! So dont tell me otherwise! What RCIC? RCSC? Dont even start with me.

Whoa there Bluey!

Of course there are good points about Asians . . . what a ridiculous notion to say otherwise.

Umm, regarding the 'Asian Family Values' thing . . . you may wish to not include that as it is bullshit.


So, you re proud to be Chinese? Why?

Can I be proud to be White? Or would that be tantamount to superiority and racism?

Hi,

OK, that part about the ''Asian Family Values'' is just relatively speaking as there are relatively more Asians living with parents etc but of course there are also non-asians who are fillial too, so perhaps I will take that comment back.

I'm proud to be Chinese because I am Chinese, no other reason.

As for whether or not what you said is tantamount to superiority and racism? You might like to ask the person who started the comment about RCSC etc.

Being proud of one's race or ethnicity is quite disingenuous, really . . . but you certainly have a very good point vis-a-vis the OP as well as valued contributors like econiMIC. Legends . . . in their own hand.

[utopia]

If someone says, you are ang kart ing by agreeing with what mothball says, wont you feel that that is an absurd comment?

It certain would be. But that someone is entitled to that opinion, at the same time it's probably their opinion that anyone agreeing with them constitutes ang kart ing as well.

Let's not forget that I'm not the one that started his/her post by extolling the virtues of Australians, and followed up with how some Singaporeans "fail to note that it is the general Asian insensitivity that cause some Aussies to be nasty towards them."
Nasty? as in? unfriendly? or nasty as in overt racism ? Or a lunatic experience encountered by the OP ? - which 'Nasty' does cultural differences and the lack of manners of Asians deserve ?


The next 2 paragraphs is probably not relevant, but, since I'm entitled to my opinion :
I've seen an Asian girl spat at by an Aussie. who was traveling in a pack, as they tend to do, and asking her to return to her country. This was in Sydney, just a stones throw from Hyde Park, at the junction of Elizabeth Street and Liverpool in 2003. My take? That Aussie was probably racist & embolden by alcohol intake, pack mentality and prone to singling out easy victim(s). Unfortunately, this is a simple fact of life, and I consider racism only 1 part of the many in that persons flawed makeup.

Incidentally, have you read about the Cronulla Riots or seen any pictures? I was at the Brighton Le Sands RSL club on the night where the 'men of Middle Eastern' took down and burned that flag for revenge.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Been reading this with some amusement for a while now. The best thing I can say is take a good hard long look in the mirror. Often, if & when we do, we realize that we are the enemy. Of ourselves.



Nations with a preponderance of a single race make the laws for themselves with little regard for others (most of the time, unknowingly). Additionally, parents then ingrain their beliefs into their offspring so that we grow up thinking we are the bees knees and are superior to other races. And this is fine as far as it goes.

Until, that is, you are forced to interact with other cultures who, funny enough, feel the same. Now, if you were the majority in your country and suddenly became the minority, you now know how your own laws in your own country and cultures appears to others. No one race is superior or inferior. However, all minorities feels the effects of discrimination and learn to deal with it. It's the transplants from being a superiority to one of being a minority that is hard and takes some adjustment. (I went through that almost 3 decades ago when I first arrived in Singapore). It's a learning and growing process that never stops. Or at least it shouldn't.

The agitation from the majority race is primarily due to the fact that they feel threatened as their overwhelming numbers are dwindling and they don't like it. The US is having the same problems today as well. We cannot keep our door open to immigration from Asia & S. America and expect the demographics to remain the same. Same goes for any country. So, one learns to give wide berth to the pack animals as it's the only time those animals feel empowered as their relative numbers decrease. Then they take out their frustrations on whomever doesn't look like them. Most are victims of just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I've seen two cases of the same here in Singapore as well. The big difference? Singapore Gahmen sweep it under the carpet and don't let it get into the mainstream media. We all know the media here is shackled.

There have been many instances of it happening here, the two I know about are only because I witnessed both from a distance. In one, an Ang Mo was set upon by a group of Chinese youths at a bus stop in Sembawang outside the old Boots & Saddles club. He was killed. The other happened outside the old Offshore Land Club in Anson Road (The 13th Floor of the Anson Building) where I witnessed two Scandinavian youths get set upon with brickbats by a group of around 15~20 Chinese youths (that scuffle was broken up in the club earlier and the two were jumped when they tried to leave later - I was in the club as well) The pickup truck the two were driving was virtually destroyed with all windows lights busted and the doors roof & bonnet well dented. I watched it from the confines of my car at the petrol kiosk that used to be located across the street from that building. I went straight from there to Seletar Airport to catch a crew change flight two hours later. Neither of these episodes ever made it to the newspapers. Go figger!

[blued3838]

If someone says, you are ang kart ing by agreeing with what mothball says, wont you feel that that is an absurd comment?

It certain would be. But that someone is entitled to that opinion, at the same time it's probably their opinion that anyone agreeing with them constitutes ang kart ing as well.

Let's not forget that I'm not the one that started his/her post by extolling the virtues of Australians, and followed up with how some Singaporeans "fail to note that it is the general Asian insensitivity that cause some Aussies to be nasty towards them."
Nasty? as in? unfriendly? or nasty as in overt racism ? Or a lunatic experience encountered by the OP ? - which 'Nasty' does cultural differences and the lack of manners of Asians deserve ?


The next 2 paragraphs is probably not relevant, but, since I'm entitled to my opinion :
I've seen an Asian girl spat at by an Aussie. who was traveling in a pack, as they tend to do, and asking her to return to her country. This was in Sydney, just a stones throw from Hyde Park, at the junction of Elizabeth Street and Liverpool in 2003. My take? That Aussie was probably racist & embolden by alcohol intake, pack mentality and prone to singling out easy victim(s). Unfortunately, this is a simple fact of life, and I consider racism only 1 part of the many in that persons flawed makeup.

Incidentally, have you read about the Cronulla Riots or seen any pictures? I was at the Brighton Le Sands RSL club on the night where the 'men of Middle Eastern' took down and burned that flag for revenge.

You have a point there. I have heard from my own friends how they were treated in Australia by skinheads who threw water bombs at them for no reason. My friend who was on a Brisbane bus at night years ago got cornered by a few others and had to apologise his way out of the tricky situation, mind you, he is a 6 ft tall guy who's body is almost as compact as Mike Tyson. I was also in Australia when the Cronulla beach riots took place in early 2005. I followed the incidents over the news everyday.

There are crazy people everywhere on this earth. FYI, the ''nasty'' I meant is to be told off (if you read my post, it stated ''told off'') and nothing else. What I meant was to be really rude like rushing and snatching seats and all. If someone does that, I think he/she deserves to be told off whatever the colour of his/her skin is. Of course, if someone lacks manners, he/she definitely does not deserve to be bashed up or spat at.

[Vincent Mothballs]

Asians are insensitive in general especially in public, it is a fact. However, there are some good points about being Asian and that we value our family and close ones more. Asians tend to hold onto ''guan xi'' more.

You really don't get it, do you? My ego and pride will not allow me to "look in the mirror" as SMS suggested. So, I am going to pretend to help you out, instead, and provide you with a mirror.

By which "yardstick" are you measuring Asians with? Who decided what makes one action more insensitive than others? Who decided that those "insensitivities" aren't to be accepted as, simply, cultural differences of Asians to non-Asians, and a cause for "celebration" rather than rebuke? Are Asians the only ones that are "insensitive" to the culture, language & values when abroad? Or are other races/citizens quite proud to retain some of their own cultural/racial identity when in another country?

What I meant was to be really rude like rushing and snatching seats and all. If someone does that, I think he/she deserves to be told off whatever the colour of his/her skin is.

Yeah! That is REALLY rude. They sure deserve it, alright! All those chair snatchers and non-door-openers!
... and you know what, your sense of shame and injustice is magnified 100x when it is an Asian. Not so much when it is a non-Asian. There are loads of social injustices happening every day. The question you should be asking yourself is why do you notice some more and others not so much. Why do you get upset with Asian examples of rudeness? and others not so much?

Why does one specifically notice when a woman drives badly? Why is pissing in the street so rude, unsocial and unhygienic when Asians do it, but it is simply accepted as a sad part of life when adults in many parts of the world piss in the streets after a night out. Why is the behaviour of Asians so scrutinised for politeness and social etiquette? It is easy to say "whatever the colour of his/her skin is". In practice, it is not so easy, and you are kidding yourself if you believe it is easy.

On a separate note altogether, I just wanted to highlight a shining example of love and acceptance here in London (but it could happen in any city in any country:
Any summer, anywhere in London with lots of people traffic, say, Covent Garden. Any pub/bar with groups of ADULT guys drinking outside. Along walks past a group of German/French/Spanish/Italian/Japanese schoolchildren on holiday, maybe around the ages 10/11 or younger. What happens next???
...example sentence structures of some of the things that these groups of ADULT men shout and taunt at these groups of CHILDREN:
"You F***ing ________!"
"Smelly F***ing _________!"
"Who won the war??? Argggghhhhh"
"Go back to your own country!"

But you know what Blued...according to you...those children probably deserved it (especially if it was a group of Asian schoolchildren). They might have been speaking together in their own language, wearing the style of clothing that they liked, have a small patch of their national flag on their jacket or bag, and just keeping to themselves in groups (I mean...they are in a foreign country for Christ's sake. They should be open and mixing with everyone. They shouldn't be wary of their own safety whilst abroad!!! Don't they realise how friendly the locals are?).

[Splatted]

I didn't have far to go as he had run into a nearby toilet. I bowled into the swinging door full pelt and almost lost my footing due to the fact that I am so Singaporean-ized that I now wear sandals everywhere. Rounding a corner I found him hastily zipping himself up, catharsis interruptus.

Call me gutless, but I would have refrained from chasing another man into a toilet. You don't know whether he was carrying a knife or box cutters.

[Vincent Mothballs]

Call me gutless, but I would have refrained from chasing another man into a toilet. You don't know whether he was carrying a knife or box cutters.

On a serious note, regardless of who is right, wrong, rude, racist, etc., Splatted has highlighted the need to be "safe" in whatever situation one finds oneself to be in, especially since family is nearby. You might not care about your own safety, but you should care about the safety of your friends and family.

[blued3838]

Asians are insensitive in general especially in public, it is a fact. However, there are some good points about being Asian and that we value our family and close ones more. Asians tend to hold onto ''guan xi'' more.

You really don't get it, do you? My ego and pride will not allow me to "look in the mirror" as SMS suggested. So, I am going to pretend to help you out, instead, and provide you with a mirror.

By which "yardstick" are you measuring Asians with? Who decided what makes one action more insensitive than others? Who decided that those "insensitivities" aren't to be accepted as, simply, cultural differences of Asians to non-Asians, and a cause for "celebration" rather than rebuke? Are Asians the only ones that are "insensitive" to the culture, language & values when abroad? Or are other races/citizens quite proud to retain some of their own cultural/racial identity when in another country?

What I meant was to be really rude like rushing and snatching seats and all. If someone does that, I think he/she deserves to be told off whatever the colour of his/her skin is.

Yeah! That is REALLY rude. They sure deserve it, alright! All those chair snatchers and non-door-openers!
... and you know what, your sense of shame and injustice is magnified 100x when it is an Asian. Not so much when it is a non-Asian. There are loads of social injustices happening every day. The question you should be asking yourself is why do you notice some more and others not so much. Why do you get upset with Asian examples of rudeness? and others not so much?

Why does one specifically notice when a woman drives badly? Why is pissing in the street so rude, unsocial and unhygienic when Asians do it, but it is simply accepted as a sad part of life when adults in many parts of the world piss in the streets after a night out. Why is the behaviour of Asians so scrutinised for politeness and social etiquette? It is easy to say "whatever the colour of his/her skin is". In practice, it is not so easy, and you are kidding yourself if you believe it is easy.

On a separate note altogether, I just wanted to highlight a shining example of love and acceptance here in London (but it could happen in any city in any country:
Any summer, anywhere in London with lots of people traffic, say, Covent Garden. Any pub/bar with groups of ADULT guys drinking outside. Along walks past a group of German/French/Spanish/Italian/Japanese schoolchildren on holiday, maybe around the ages 10/11 or younger. What happens next???
...example sentence structures of some of the things that these groups of ADULT men shout and taunt at these groups of CHILDREN:
"You F***ing ________!"
"Smelly F***ing _________!"
"Who won the war??? Argggghhhhh"
"Go back to your own country!"

But you know what Blued...according to you...those children probably deserved it (especially if it was a group of Asian schoolchildren). They might have been speaking together in their own language, wearing the style of clothing that they liked, have a small patch of their national flag on their jacket or bag, and just keeping to themselves in groups (I mean...they are in a foreign country for Christ's sake. They should be open and mixing with everyone. They shouldn't be wary of their own safety whilst abroad!!! Don't they realise how friendly the locals are?).

Please dont put words into my sentence, if you had only paid attention and read carefully, instead of indulging in your ''F'' language all the time, when did I mention that people like that deserve to be shouted at with the ''F'' word? When did I say that an innocent peace loving group of students need to be told off when they didnt even do anything? I realise one thing about you and that you are always jumping to conclusions. Your own conclusions, your own assumptions. You are the one who needs counselling.

Dont forget who started this argument? I was merely putting forth a general comment, you are the one not getting it, Mothballs. Wake up!

I dont wish to continue with this meaningless debate cos you are living in your own world and assuming that you are right all the time. Guess you never heard of the saying, the person who thinks he is right all the time, is never right!

I dont wish to argue with you anymore cos I like both Asians and Non-Asians. The only comment I am making is that all have their good and bad points, which you just dont happen to understand. Cant blame you cos you only think that you are right all the time, so how are you to understand that you, like any other human being (including myself), have faults and bad points too.

If you are still not happy and like to use the ''F'' word again, then by all means, continue using it, I dont want to be involved in your ''F'' world.

I only need to answer to God and not men. Enough has been said!

[Vincent Mothballs]

You sound a little bit frustrated Blued. Why is that? I am simply trying to apply some of your "logic" in countering your viewpoint.....and so it continues ....

[Start of sarcasm]I am only "right" because you subject yourself tomy "rightness". You have not answered and addressed every single question that I posed in my previous thread! Therefore, you are rude!!! and you deserve to be publically rebuked and shamed!

...and NO, I am not targeting you because you are Asian. I am targeting you because you have proved yourself to be rude by not addressing all of my questions.

Others on this discussion are not rude even though they did not address all of my questions because ... well, just because. But you are rude because you did not respond to all questions! but it is definitely not because you are Asian!

Side note ... damn ... those Asians are so rude! It makes me feel ashamed to be Asian! I apologise to all non-Asians for the rudeness that we inflict upon you.

[End of sarcasm - I feel I need to put this in place in case anyone does not get it]
[Note, sarcasm is the lowest form of humour,and is only used by rude people]

Previously, I only used the "F***" word once in my own writing, and twice in actual quotes of things that I have heard shouted to groups of schoolchildren. You seem to be have included those quote incidents within my tally. Therefore, by my count...you have used that rude & foul word....6x against my previous 3x (4x including this post)

All that I have been doing is to try to clarify what you started and stated, and to perhaps shed some light on the issues that you have. Are you beginning to see the light, yet? I am trying to help you. I was going to use that cheesey proverb about leading a horse to water, but I have decided to make up my own one...

...I can shine a torch up your nose to highlight the bogeys of your ego, but it is up to you to decide on whether you want to pick them or not. If you do, then it can be a painful process. Some bogeys have built up over the years & dried out hard with nostril hairs entangled in them. You can rip them out quickly - more pain ... or slowly pick at them, bit by bit - less pain, but this is a longer process.

I only need to answer to God and not men.

Ah yes...whenever anyone brings up "God" it automatically makes them infallible, right, better, etc. I have heard that many times before. Your statement sounds like a good idea to have, but you do not live by that. You voluntarily subject yourself to the judgement of other men, cultures and races. Also, it is a pity that you feel other Asians are subject to local Aussies and your judgement regarding manners and insensitivity in public. At the end of the day, if you let God decide on what to do with those rude Asians you would not get so frustrated about all this

[eagle357]

I been following this thread with some interest. Especially the one between Blued and Vincent Mothballs.

Let me give my two cents worth, blued gave his comments about ''general insentivtities of Asians". Then Vincent Mothballs came in to comment about blued being RCIC. Then blued got a bit upset and replied to say he is proud to be Chinese. Then Vincent Mothballs came in to say things like blued is condoning that asians be shouted at overseas. Then blued said that vincent mothballs is jumping to conclusions and that vincent mothballs feels that he is right all the time etc. Then vincent mothballs said that blued is not answering his questions and is ''rude''.

To be fair to both parties, I reckon that what blued said initially about ''asians being insensitive and derserve to be told off'' is a bit off and is unacceptable, that is the culture of asians, and according to vincent mothballs, should be accepted and embraced. But what vincent mothballs is saying and the words that he uses in this forum is a bit too provoking, and inevitably makes people upset. Also, is vincent mothballs saying that we should embrace a culture that runs into MRT trains and take seats away from the elderly or the needy? Or rush into trains once the doors open? Even the Singapore government is trying to change this culture by introducing signs and notices and announcements to encourage people to let people into trains first and to give up seats to the needy. On the other hand, is blued saying that just becos asians could probably be insensitive in public, does that mean that they can be told off?

Overall, I think that blued made a comment that he feels about that may or may not be right. Vincent Mothballs on the other hand is upset by the initial comment made by blued and started to fire on all cylinders.

My conlcusion, blued probably has had pleasant experiences with non-asians and not so pleasant experiences with asians in terms of being sensitive in public. As for vincent mothballs, he probably has had unpleasant experiences with non-asians that make him so upset about this issue. As for who is being rude? No one is, it is all just their own opinions.

Whatever it is, we should all just chill. Just remember that we should ''Do unto others what you want others to do unto you''. If you dont like people to take your seats by rushing and running past you, then don't do that to others. If you don't like others to shout at you when you have done something out of insenstitivity and not on purpose, then don't shout at others when that happnens to you.

No offence please, blued and vincent mothballs.

[sundaymorningstaple]

[blued3838]

You sound a little bit frustrated Blued. Why is that? I am simply trying to apply some of your "logic" in countering your viewpoint.....and so it continues ....

[Start of sarcasm]I am only "right" because you subject yourself tomy "rightness". You have not answered and addressed every single question that I posed in my previous thread! Therefore, you are rude!!! and you deserve to be publically rebuked and shamed!

...and NO, I am not targeting you because you are Asian. I am targeting you because you have proved yourself to be rude by not addressing all of my questions.

Others on this discussion are not rude even though they did not address all of my questions because ... well, just because. But you are rude because you did not respond to all questions! but it is definitely not because you are Asian!

Side note ... damn ... those Asians are so rude! It makes me feel ashamed to be Asian! I apologise to all non-Asians for the rudeness that we inflict upon you.

[End of sarcasm - I feel I need to put this in place in case anyone does not get it]
[Note, sarcasm is the lowest form of humour,and is only used by rude people]

Previously, I only used the "F***" word once in my own writing, and twice in actual quotes of things that I have heard shouted to groups of schoolchildren. You seem to be have included those quote incidents within my tally. Therefore, by my count...you have used that rude & foul word....6x against my previous 3x (4x including this post)

All that I have been doing is to try to clarify what you started and stated, and to perhaps shed some light on the issues that you have. Are you beginning to see the light, yet? I am trying to help you. I was going to use that cheesey proverb about leading a horse to water, but I have decided to make up my own one...

...I can shine a torch up your nose to highlight the bogeys of your ego, but it is up to you to decide on whether you want to pick them or not. If you do, then it can be a painful process. Some bogeys have built up over the years & dried out hard with nostril hairs entangled in them. You can rip them out quickly - more pain ... or slowly pick at them, bit by bit - less pain, but this is a longer process.

I only need to answer to God and not men.

Ah yes...whenever anyone brings up "God" it automatically makes them infallible, right, better, etc. I have heard that many times before. Your statement sounds like a good idea to have, but you do not live by that. You voluntarily subject yourself to the judgement of other men, cultures and races. Also, it is a pity that you feel other Asians are subject to local Aussies and your judgement regarding manners and insensitivity in public. At the end of the day, if you let God decide on what to do with those rude Asians you would not get so frustrated about all this

Vincent Mothballs,

Ok, if what I had posted had upsetted you or anyone else in any way or other, my intention was not to say that anyone deserves to be abused or shouted at for nothing.

My sincere apologies! Just want to make peace.