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Postby Wind In My Hair » Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:43 am

nakatago wrote:I think he meant connecting ideas, based on his premise that it's knowledge-based and poor problem solving abilities. Just inferring.

Makes sense, and good case in point :wink: 'Connections' has a very specific meaning here, and I notice EV interpreted it the same way I did.

ev-disinfection wrote:We do have connections and networking, more on a "relationship" kind of way.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Tue, 11 Jan 2011 11:51 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The only department that the staff don't work late if they can help it is my HR & Finance Department. They know that I wonder if they are capable of the position they have been hired for if they cannot handle the load during normal working hours.

Are you hiring? I refuse to work beyond 430pm so I'm a good fit!

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:04 pm

boliaopeople wrote:Mate, because I've seen to many of this kind who will not think twice to look down their own kind just to be in the 'same level' as the expat.

I've nothing against Gay, or locals wanting to be expats, but I have problem with locals who do not respect themselves, their culture, their people, their believes.

Hey there, those two independent variables are not mutually exclusive. I'm not very good at explaining permutations so I'll just spell it out:

1. Looks down on own kind + gets along with expats
2. Looks down on own kind + doesn't like expats
3. Respects own kind & culture + doesn't like expats
4. Respects own kind & culture + gets along with expats

Your thinking seems to admit only possibilities (1) and (3). Why?

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Postby ev-disinfection » Tue, 11 Jan 2011 2:26 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
ev-disinfection wrote:i have trust in our government, to show us the way, step by step.
I am proud to be a Singaporean...
More questions on what a local feels... please.

Hey EV, I'm glad you're on this forum!
Thank you WIMH, what a nice thing to say... :D

I agree with almost everything you said except... I would like to see more Singaporeans not depending on the government to show us the way step-by-step. First of all, we cannot assume that we will always have a good government like we do now. Secondly, there is no single 'correct' way and even if the government shows a good way forward, we are more robust as a society if we can find several good ways across the board.


Well, the current PAP government is doing okay and i would follow their lead, meaning leaving it to them to do their job, and unless there are people who has a better plan, i will trust them.
There are people who says that "you have always had the same government, how do you know the opposition cannot lead better" and i would ask them.... have you seen the quality of the opposition leaders? there are of course some good ones... like Mr Chiam See Tong (who did very well with his ward (Potong Pasir) and a good leader) but they are few and far between...
Remember that laws are made for the good of the majority, and those who always complain are some of the minority, who can do good if they wanted to... but at the end of the day, the majority of Singaporeans still vote the current government in... cause they are good.
My 2 cents worth... how much that 2 cents is worth is up to you to decide.
Peace.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 11 Jan 2011 2:29 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:Wow, I just found this very interesting thread.

x9200 wrote:Your education system is vastly knowledge based (meant literally) - people know a lot of things but they do not work up on connections, they do not have problem solving abilities properly developed.

Agreed on the problem-solving, but am curious what you mean by not working up on connections? In my personal experience local businesses use a lot of connections for example in hiring or making deals, compared to MNCs which are more rules-based for example advertising jobs or inviting tenders. I'm not disagreeing and I'm sure you have a good point, because you are X9200 :) I'd like to understand your POV more.

ps: I just realised I quoted your post from one year ago so if you can't remember why you said what you did, never mind.

Maybe connection is not the right word. Normally with the sufficient knowledge you do make some links based on similarities and handle the alike situations. I do not see it here too frequently. It is like you know how to connect DVD and TV, same for DVR and TV but will not even try to connect VCR and TV. People here do not ask the question why, do not give a thought why something is this way and not the other way, they just memorize and then replay when it is needed and only what was earlier memorized. For this, partly responsible is the education but also the kiasu thing - you do not invent anything by yourself as this involves much higher risk than following the routes already proven to work.

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Tue, 11 Jan 2011 2:47 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:Well, the current PAP government is doing okay and i would follow their lead, meaning leaving it to them to do their job, and unless there are people who has a better plan, i will trust them.
There are people who says that "you have always had the same government, how do you know the opposition cannot lead better" and i would ask them.... have you seen the quality of the opposition leaders? there are of course some good ones... like Mr Chiam See Tong (who did very well with his ward (Potong Pasir) and a good leader) but they are few and far between...

Totally agree that we have no credible opposition right now. As you say there are some outstanding individuals (I'm a big fan of Mr Chiam) but not enough to form a ruling government. Also agree that the current government is good on many counts. Hopefully this will continue for a long time but all it takes is one rogue leader with no opposition in place to challenge that and this will be a very different place.

Anyway it's heartwarming to meet a compatriot who is openly proud of Singapore \:D/

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Postby Wind In My Hair » Tue, 11 Jan 2011 3:00 pm

x9200 wrote:Maybe connection is not the right word. Normally with the sufficient knowledge you do make some links based on similarities and handle the alike situations. I do not see it here too frequently. It is like you know how to connect DVD and TV, same for DVR and TV but will not even try to connect VCR and TV. People here do not ask the question why, do not give a thought why something is this way and not the other way, they just memorize and then replay when it is needed and only what was earlier memorized. For this, partly responsible is the education but also the kiasu thing - you do not invent anything by yourself as this involves much higher risk than following the routes already proven to work.

Thanks for the explanation. Yes it's frustrating when people blindly follow procedure when sometimes there is a simpler or better way. Usually something has to go wrong with the 'proven routes' before any improvements are made. Hopefully you will be able to change a few mindsets around you during your stay here :)

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 11 Jan 2011 4:19 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:Our education system is changing, to groom the future generation of SG Boys and Girls to be more well rounded, and i have trust in our government, to show us the way, step by step.
I am proud to be a Singaporean...

No offence, but are you aware you sound a bit like a propaganda tube? You are pretty severely indoctrinated I would say :) I am trying right now to shake off from you some of your pre-conditioning as you seem friendly and probably this will not escalate to one of the Nakatago's nightmare scenarios.

ev-disinfection wrote:More questions on what a local feels... please.

Is it really changing? Ok, why is it the way it is now? :) Was it always based on memorizing rather then understanding? How was it before the independence?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 11 Jan 2011 4:48 pm

:lol:

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Postby ev-disinfection » Tue, 11 Jan 2011 4:52 pm

x9200 wrote:
ev-disinfection wrote:Our education system is changing, to groom the future generation of SG Boys and Girls to be more well rounded, and i have trust in our government, to show us the way, step by step.
I am proud to be a Singaporean...

No offence, but are you aware you sound a bit like a propaganda tube? You are pretty severely indoctrinated I would say :) I am trying right now to shake off from you some of your pre-conditioning as you seem friendly and probably this will not escalate to one of the Nakatago's nightmare scenarios.

ev-disinfection wrote:More questions on what a local feels... please.

Is it really changing? Ok, why is it the way it is now? :) Was it always based on memorizing rather then understanding? How was it before the independence?


Hi X9200,
I am as unorthodox a Singaporean as you can find or know,
i pride myself to be as unique as possible,
i don't follow fashion trends, i hate brands in clothing, but will buy really good equipment for my work,
will not follow the queue to buy "good" food, would rather buy from the closest stall / restaurant,
i embrace change, as it is the only constant,
I stopped school after my "O" Levels, cause i hate memorizing stuff, i am Chinese, but was brought up speaking English, (in fact my whole family spoke English) and always failed my Mandarin subject.
I had to stop school cause i couldn't pass my mandarin.
I am "not" Pro PAP, but i am pro "good government".

Before Independence, school was always about memorizing stuff, till not so long ago, it is more well rounded now.
People back then had honor (even the gangsters / Triad) Their word was their bond. These days there are few truly honorable people left :(

Well, I see a change, will take a generation or 2 more, and the change will start with me and you.
(I see the attitude of people, and i also cannot stand it, but instead of complaining, i will take the man in the mirror approach)
Cheers, i am a friendly and a nice guy.

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 8:19 am

You do not speak natural language when you talk about your government :) Unorthodox... yes, to same extent but I could probably tell what country you are from asking you few unspecific questions. This is not to diminish anyhow anything about you but for me WIMH is a true unorthodox. I would not easily guessed she is Singaporean and this is not like she tries to hide anything or turns her back to her country. It is just opposite. Ok, enough of this I think.

Back to education: If you look at the management level of the state owned institution or companies you may notice that majority of ppl holding such position are pretty reasonable so they can think more-less independently. Apparently this is not a coincident so this virtue of mind is clearly acknowledged as an asset. At the same time, practically the whole educational system is based on memorization resulting in an average Singaporean Joe with no practical ability to think independently. How is it possible that 40 years have passed and the government has done here absolutely- or close to nothing?

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Postby Vaucluse » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 8:57 am

x9200 wrote: At the same time, practically the whole educational system is based on memorization resulting in an average Singaporean Joe with no practical ability to think independently. How is it possible that 40 years have passed and the government has done here absolutely- or close to nothing?


This idea, pre-conception or mis-conception, is such an old chestnut that it is becoming laughable.

There is no doubt that many Chinese schools harp on about rote-learning, but that seems to be the only way to learn the thousands of Chinese characters.

This 'no independent thinking' cliché is just that - a cliché.

As for ragging on the education system as a whole . . . try living in Malaysia to see how a government can right royally f**k up every possibility of tinkering with it.

x9200, I am not sure if you are making fun of ev-disinfection's English . . . but if you are then I would strongly suggest you rethink this strategy . . .
......................................................

'nuff said Image

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:00 am

Vaucluse wrote:
x9200, I am not sure if you are making fun of ev-disinfection's English . . . but if you are then I would strongly suggest you rethink this strategy . . .


Actually, I think he is doing just the opposite. ev's English, like WIMH's is NOT native (in the way that we are used to seeing from the 'average' local who come on here). But, having talked (verbally off the board) to both and actually meeting one, I can assure x9200 that both are well and truly Singaporeans who do Singapore proud. :wink:

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Postby x9200 » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:24 am

Vaucluse wrote:
x9200 wrote: At the same time, practically the whole educational system is based on memorization resulting in an average Singaporean Joe with no practical ability to think independently. How is it possible that 40 years have passed and the government has done here absolutely- or close to nothing?


This idea, pre-conception or mis-conception, is such an old chestnut that it is becoming laughable.

There is no doubt that many Chinese schools harp on about rote-learning, but that seems to be the only way to learn the thousands of Chinese characters.

So is with Japanese and in medical schools and under few hundreds other situations still not creating some tape recorders out of majority of the population.


This 'no independent thinking' cliché is just that - a cliché.

No it's not. It is overused perhaps but this is the reality. I am not the only one bitching here about this. It's everywhere starting from the part-time maids to the PhD graduates. If you are oblivious or resistant to it for whatever reason, then good for you.

As for ragging on the education system as a whole . . . try living in Malaysia to see how a government can right royally f**k up every possibility of tinkering with it.

And this makes the SG system ....?

x9200, I am not sure if you are making fun of ev-disinfection's English . . . but if you are then I would strongly suggest you rethink this strategy . .

Giving my English skills that would be rather stupid so maybe we both should do some rethinking.


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Postby x9200 » Thu, 13 Jan 2011 10:34 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:I can assure x9200 that both are well and truly Singaporeans who do Singapore proud. :wink:

No slightest doubt in my mind :) I'd wish would be more like these two.


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