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ev-disinfection
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Postby ev-disinfection » Sun, 03 Jan 2010 6:37 pm

irvine wrote:Thanks for sharing, SgBoy... On history buffs, I read Harry Lee's biography and also the entire history of Singapore too before I moved here. :p It's like a way 'to make sure I know what and where I'm getting myself into'.

I'm also curious on:
Are you proud of your country? What makes you proud of your country? What makes you proud to be a Singaporean?


I am proud of my country, Singapore...
Proud, cause we have a good credible government,
a strong armed force,
efficient public transport system,
almost all of us have our own homes,
(Leased, but we can sell and buy again)
(and did you know that if a couple, both 21 years old, work for 5 years each, their combined CPF would be enough to put down payment on their apartment),
a good school education system,
Good roads,

Naturally, we do not have any natural disasters,
neither do not have any natural resource, our people are our only resource,
That is why, we almost always are working, doing Overtime... for ourselves and country, as a resource, we have to do it.
and thus some have mutated to be "kiasu" (Scared to Lose) as all want to be the number 1 resource. Some want out, thus they migrate..
We do not have free lunches here, you work hard and smart, you will get more but if you want to take it easy, you get lesser. That is our work-life balance.

More of my 2 cents.

I will abide by the rules and regulations of this forum, and promise to be a "friend" to all expats and locals here alike.
Cheers, now please concentrate on the topics, guys.
:)

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Postby x9200 » Sun, 03 Jan 2010 10:32 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:a good school education system,
[..]That is why, we almost always are working, doing Overtime... for ourselves and country, as a resource, we have to do it.
and thus some have mutated to be "kiasu" (Scared to Lose) as all want to be the number 1 resource. Some want out, thus they migrate..

1. Your education system is vastly knowledge based (meant literally) - people know a lot of things but they do not work up on connections, they do not have problem solving abilities properly developed. This is of course generalization but I am curious your opinion about this as I agree roughly with most of your statements. Maybe this is the way meant (engineered) to be?
2. Everyday "work kiasu" is rather about security than to be No 1. In some areas it may work well. In some should be a total failure. One such area is science and research where for exactly that reason you do not have a critical mass of skillful people yet on board. Your government clearly sees it judging by the actions.
ev-disinfection wrote:Cheers, now please concentrate on the topics, guys.
:)

Does not always work this way :)

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Postby SGBoyxxx » Mon, 04 Jan 2010 2:51 pm

x9200 wrote:
ev-disinfection wrote:a good school education system,
[..]That is why, we almost always are working, doing Overtime... for ourselves and country, as a resource, we have to do it.
and thus some have mutated to be "kiasu" (Scared to Lose) as all want to be the number 1 resource. Some want out, thus they migrate..

1. Your education system is vastly knowledge based (meant literally) - people know a lot of things but they do not work up on connections, they do not have problem solving abilities properly developed. This is of course generalization but I am curious your opinion about this as I agree roughly with most of your statements. Maybe this is the way meant (engineered) to be?2. Everyday "work kiasu" is rather about security than to be No 1. In some areas it may work well. In some should be a total failure. One such area is science and research where for exactly that reason you do not have a critical mass of skillful people yet on board. Your government clearly sees it judging by the actions.
ev-disinfection wrote:Cheers, now please concentrate on the topics, guys.
:)

Does not always work this way :)


yup :D lol I work in a public sector.
personally I saw many collegues who have higher education don;t seem good in problem solving.

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Postby SGBoyxxx » Mon, 04 Jan 2010 2:57 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:
irvine wrote:Thanks for sharing, SgBoy... On history buffs, I read Harry Lee's biography and also the entire history of Singapore too before I moved here. :p It's like a way 'to make sure I know what and where I'm getting myself into'.

I'm also curious on:
Are you proud of your country? What makes you proud of your country? What makes you proud to be a Singaporean?


I am proud of my country, Singapore...
Proud, cause we have a good credible government,
a strong armed force,
efficient public transport system,
almost all of us have our own homes,
(Leased, but we can sell and buy again)
(and did you know that if a couple, both 21 years old, work for 5 years each, their combined CPF would be enough to put down payment on their apartment),
a good school education system,
Good roads,

Naturally, we do not have any natural disasters,
neither do not have any natural resource, our people are our only resource,
That is why, we almost always are working, doing Overtime... for ourselves and country, as a resource, we have to do it.
and thus some have mutated to be "kiasu" (Scared to Lose) as all want to be the number 1 resource. Some want out, thus they migrate..
We do not have free lunches here, you work hard and smart, you will get more but if you want to take it easy, you get lesser. That is our work-life balance.

More of my 2 cents.

I will abide by the rules and regulations of this forum, and promise to be a "friend" to all expats and locals here alike.
Cheers, now please concentrate on the topics, guys.
:)



:wink: what I like most in singapore is we don;t have natural disaster.

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Postby ev-disinfection » Mon, 04 Jan 2010 4:56 pm

x9200 wrote:
ev-disinfection wrote:a good school education system,
[..]That is why, we almost always are working, doing Overtime... for ourselves and country, as a resource, we have to do it.
and thus some have mutated to be "kiasu" (Scared to Lose) as all want to be the number 1 resource. Some want out, thus they migrate..

1. Your education system is vastly knowledge based (meant literally) - people know a lot of things but they do not work up on connections, they do not have problem solving abilities properly developed. This is of course generalization but I am curious your opinion about this as I agree roughly with most of your statements. Maybe this is the way meant (engineered) to be?
2. Everyday "work kiasu" is rather about security than to be No 1. In some areas it may work well. In some should be a total failure. One such area is science and research where for exactly that reason you do not have a critical mass of skillful people yet on board. Your government clearly sees it judging by the actions.
ev-disinfection wrote:Cheers, now please concentrate on the topics, guys.
:)

Does not always work this way :)


1, Yes a knowledge based, basics are important, once you have the basics, you will be more prepared for problems, thus problem solving abilitiy experience is important and that takes time.
We do have connections and networking, more on a "relationship" kind of way.
2, "critical mass of skillful people" that is why we need expats, to fill that gap.
:)

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Postby irvine » Mon, 04 Jan 2010 5:41 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:1, Yes a knowledge based, basics are important, once you have the basics, you will be more prepared for problems, thus problem solving abilitiy experience is important and that takes time.
We do have connections and networking, more on a "relationship" kind of way.
2, "critical mass of skillful people" that is why we need expats, to fill that gap.
:)


No.1 is flawed. End of the day, it is only prepared for problems. Solving problems innovatively, efficiently, and timely is yet another story. I find many local-grads aren't quick and flexible to do that. They tend to follow the rules by the book. Of course I'm sure this doesn't apply to all local-grads, and perhaps this only happen in my path. But, why are you defending this point when it is a fact that it has its limitation?

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Postby irvine » Mon, 04 Jan 2010 5:49 pm

And 1) what is a good education system? Tuitions after tuitions?

I have known of a lady whose child goes for 13 tuitions in a week, on top of regular school hours and extra-curricula. What the??

It is a wonder why most school kids don't help with housework (oh yes, they have maids), which translate to the lack of ability to live on their own smoothly (oh wait, they have NS to shape them up, not to worry). The kids have to concentrate with their studies, books, tuitions, etc.

2) What happen to childhood?

I had a chat with a local colleague and I said.. I'm not gonna send my kid to any tuition classes. S/he can ask me on school stuff if need. So my colleague says.. "if 38 students in the class of 40 goes to tuition, you wouldn't send yours too?"

LOL! So what? 3) Why do I have to conform? My answer is no, I will do my best as a mother to help my child in his/her studies, AND spend some bonding time together as well. Just like my dear mother did, and my siblings and I turn out to be just fine.

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Postby x9200 » Mon, 04 Jan 2010 6:45 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:1, Yes a knowledge based, basics are important, once you have the basics, you will be more prepared for problems, thus problem solving abilitiy experience is important and that takes time.

Sorry but it does not appear to work unless this is the intention - the part you neglected to comment on :) It works reasonably as the whole, specific system. Judging by the effects It basically looks like thoughtless memorization of knowledge and it shows sometimes very weird way - have you for example notice the general inability to answer the question "why"? People know things and can replay this knowledge but when asked about relations they are not prepared to find it so typically they repeat the original statement.

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Postby irvine » Mon, 04 Jan 2010 8:47 pm

x9200, this happens everyday at my workplace. :o

One thing I must give it to them, most are hardworking. Working hard, or is it hardly working. :-|

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 04 Jan 2010 9:37 pm

As the only non-Asian in our 200+ man company, I find that most spend their time "working hard at hardly working"! But they will spend the hours++ if they think it'll impress the boss. Funny thing is, the boss is outta there at the dot of 6 every day unless he leaves early. The only department that the staff don't work late if they can help it is my HR & Finance Department. They know that I wonder if they are capable of the position they have been hired for if they cannot handle the load during normal working hours. And yes, I do know how to staff. They are actually happy as we understand each other. :wink:

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 05 Jan 2010 5:14 am

irvine wrote:x9200, this happens everyday at my workplace. :o

One thing I must give it to them, most are hardworking. Working hard, or is it hardly working. :-|

Working hard to impress the boss. A clear side or dominating effect of the kiasu/education thing. The goal is hardly to achieve the actual goal but to be successful in the eyes of the superiors. Take no risk. Do only already proven things. Follow the procedures by the book. No place for independent thinking. And this may be ok on average service levels but for the higher ones it either needs micromanagement or leads to substandard results.

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Postby irvine » Tue, 05 Jan 2010 10:29 am

x9200 wrote:Working hard to impress the boss. A clear side or dominating effect of the kiasu/education thing. The goal is hardly to achieve the actual goal but to be successful in the eyes of the superiors. Take no risk. Do only already proven things. Follow the procedures by the book. No place for independent thinking. And this may be ok on average service levels but for the higher ones it either needs micromanagement or leads to substandard results.


Well said. Happens everyday... while the outspoken one with flexible, innovative, and 'out of the box' thinking is reprimanded for talking too much. No wonder over time, job performance discrepancy happens... and the good ones leave for greener pastures. Until that pasture turns weeded again.

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Postby ev-disinfection » Tue, 05 Jan 2010 11:59 am

Hello again,
It is true, and seen in almost every company, big or small, that "working hard at hardly working" is prevalent here,
There is still a long way at educating on how to behave, ways and procedures in a company.
I still think that we have a good education system, (my kids only attend chinese tuition) It is the attitudes and mentality that still have a long way to go. And we are still learning from the more experienced expats that we are getting.
It is a wrong concept to do OT, cause the corporate boss will think that you are inefficient and cannot get things done in your normal working hours, but there are some companies, that really give a lot of work...

I think out of the box, and I always get things done, no matter what and how long it takes. But I am still learning...

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Postby x9200 » Wed, 06 Jan 2010 3:15 pm

ev-disinfection wrote:I still think that we have a good education system, (my kids only attend chinese tuition) It is the attitudes and mentality that still have a long way to go.

And this to be changed by home visits, propaganda or just by the presence of some expats in everyday environment?

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Postby ev-disinfection » Wed, 06 Jan 2010 4:55 pm

x9200 wrote:
ev-disinfection wrote:I still think that we have a good education system, (my kids only attend chinese tuition) It is the attitudes and mentality that still have a long way to go.

And this to be changed by home visits, propaganda or just by the presence of some expats in everyday environment?


This will be changed by more interaction with not only the expats, but also by the locals who have the right attitudes and mentality. It just takes time, i try to share whatever i know to the people i meet, and will learn whatever i can from them.


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