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Concern over rising population

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analyst
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Concern over rising population

Post by analyst » Sat, 03 Oct 2009 8:21 am

Dear forumers,

Bad news.


http://www.thestar.com.my/news/story.as ... &sec=focus

I guess entry is going to be a lot tougher in the coming years.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 03 Oct 2009 8:59 am

Actually, I see it as the opposite. Maybe now we will start seeing quality imports and not the high percentage of riff-raff allowed in in recent years due to the government's rush to meet body counts (see that as tax $$$'s going kaching into their coffers).
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Post by taxico » Sat, 03 Oct 2009 10:36 am

plus, we don't know how many of "value-adding" non-singapore-born will actually stay for good (whatever their residency/visa status) or use the country for tax haven/transit purposes.
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Post by ScoobyDoes » Sat, 03 Oct 2009 3:17 pm

Agree with the article that says all it might do instead is push out the best of Singaporean citizens into the wider world, creating more imbalance.

It's a self feeding frenzy of sorts.

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Post by econoMIC » Sat, 03 Oct 2009 4:12 pm

I think this is good news for everyone in Singapore already. Personally my opinion is that it was too easy to migrate to Singapore over the past decade. That someone has a degree from a recognised university doesn't make them a good addition to the population. The level of some of the postings in this forum are the best proof, eg:

"I have Masters from good India University. How can I find job with Markit Singapore?" or "I have been requested CPF statement for last 3 years but only been in Singapore 1 year." (and that last one without indicating that it is about PR application).

The fact is that people like this do not enrich the country as they will most likely never blend in and don't have much to offer. What Singapore needs badly is problem solvers instead of people who just follow the procedure and throw in the towel as soon as a problem comes up.

Also there will be less of those bullsh1tters who didn't make it at home and then come to Singapore and think they are a gift to mankind (transiters).
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Post by mrlily » Sat, 03 Oct 2009 8:39 pm

econoMIC wrote: The level of some of the postings in this forum are the best proof, eg:

"I have Masters from good India University. How can I find job with Markit Singapore?" or "I have been requested CPF statement for last 3 years but only been in Singapore 1 year." (and that last one without indicating that it is about PR application).

The fact is that people like this do not enrich the country as they will most likely never blend in and don't have much to offer. What Singapore needs badly is problem solvers instead of people who just follow the procedure and throw in the towel as soon as a problem comes up.
geeez economic why don't you tell everyone what your reeeeeally thinking. it seems to me you are judging people by the way they string a sentence together or whether their scribblings are grammatically correct.

I suggest you take heed of the common saying "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

personally, your "proof" lacks any substance and the other comments are gross generalisations.
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Post by taxico » Sun, 04 Oct 2009 8:49 am

mrlily wrote:
econoMIC wrote: The level of some of the postings in this forum are the best proof, eg:

"I have Masters from good India University. How can I find job with Markit Singapore?" or "I have been requested CPF statement for last 3 years but only been in Singapore 1 year." (and that last one without indicating that it is about PR application).

The fact is that people like this do not enrich the country as they will most likely never blend in and don't have much to offer. What Singapore needs badly is problem solvers instead of people who just follow the procedure and throw in the towel as soon as a problem comes up.
geeez economic why don't you tell everyone what your reeeeeally thinking. it seems to me you are judging people by the way they string a sentence together or whether their scribblings are grammatically correct.

I suggest you take heed of the common saying "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

personally, your "proof" lacks any substance and the other comments are gross generalisations.
i think (in part) he meant to say: in the past decade, many of the migrants to singapore are idiots/unqualified despite having a recognized degree.

i agree with him.
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Post by mrlily » Sun, 04 Oct 2009 12:39 pm

how do you quantify; idiots and unqualified people despite having a degree type people in Singapore? i must have missed that question on the last census.

taxico wrote:i think (in part) he meant to say: in the past decade, many of the migrants to singapore are idiots/unqualified despite having a recognized degree.

i agree with him.
economic wrote: The fact is that people like this do not enrich the country as they will most likely never blend in and don't have much to offer.
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Post by waz » Sun, 04 Oct 2009 2:53 pm

I don't agree calling these foreigners with external degree idiots. They are actually very smart.

In the heat of getting highly qualified people, Singapore gave PRship easily.

Many of them don't actually have the necessary experience for the work they they did when they first came. They learned. And use that short experience as a stepping stones for other better things.

I've seen it happened. When I was a mid manager of govt linked company, I had officers who are diploma holders from Singapore and degree holders from India, China and Philipines. Skill level wise, all are the same. But generally Singaporean slightly better due to more confident.

But after 3 years, one by one of these PR leave the company and joined other companies with higher position. What ever experience they got from SG, it was well recognised, couple with their degrees.

So who are the goondoos here?
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Post by econoMIC » Sun, 04 Oct 2009 4:37 pm

@Mrlily: you didn't read properly what I said. I gave a clear example of a posting where someone did not do any research himself. Imagine this: you are an employer and you employ a graduate to do a job. Now he has to order parts and what does he do, he comes to you and asks you: "how do I order parts?" You would expect from anyone (not only a graduate) to do some research and try to solve the problem first and then come to your manager and say: "I tried ordering parts but I am not clear on this point here and wanted to know whether this is better than that because I have tried...". You also don't just go to the doctors and say:"I am sick", and let the doctor do all the guesswork, do you? So please before making any accusations that a user's post lacks substance please read it properly and focus on what was said, not what you personally read between the lines.

@waz: What we are all trying to say is, recognised degree or not, that doesn't make you more valuable. You need to have skills instead of just a piece of paper, so I for one agree with you here. The problem from the locals' point of view is: this is their country. They should get the chance to learn before a foreigner who comes and pushes down wages. Singapore never had a shortage of labour, so you can't justify past immigration based on the need for foreign labour (excluding the low income sector, such as rubbish collectors, construction workers). Instead the government has justified the immigration policy in the past decade by saying we need the talent and know how. If a foreigner has to learn himself first, then that is not what the government policy aimed at and potentially deprived locals of income and that chance the foreigners got, ie. to learn on the job. Of course then again you could argue that keeping real wages low made the economy more competitive but then again, you could argue that benefit was not felt by locals... but that is probably beyond the scope of the initial discussion.
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Post by econoMIC » Sun, 04 Oct 2009 4:44 pm

mrlily wrote:how do you quantify; idiots and unqualified people despite having a degree type people in Singapore? i must have missed that question on the last census.
economic wrote: The fact is that people like this do not enrich the country as they will most likely never blend in and don't have much to offer.
How about you open a newspaper and have a look what the current discussions are all about? Many foreigners have only used Singapore as a stepping stone, never contributed and didn't blend in with society. Best example are PRCs that do not integrate according to the local media. By the way, please note that I did not use the terms idiot and unqualified people. You are not fully stating reasons, barely throwing accusations in the room. Please give some proper reasoning, something you have not done so far.
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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 04 Oct 2009 5:27 pm

I stand my by post with over 27 years of observations and the last 15 of them directly involved in the immigration process under the guise of being both a headhunter and HR Manager (currently). I daresay the quality of PR and degenerated enormously. A degree only shows potential, not actual ability. Problem is, now they are giving on potential while asking for experience to transfer. Isn't being done. Instead we are teach the PR's at the expense of the country and citizens and for thank yous we are getting PR's giving it up and moving to other countries after sucking the country dry rather than contributing anything at all.

As I said, I'm glad to see it tightening up. Can't happen soon enough.
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Post by mrlily » Mon, 05 Oct 2009 12:37 am

restricted entry = less HR people, ho ho ho

the FACT still remains, whether you restrict entry by being more selective;

"The migrants today are not the peasant or coolie type who sailed in on refugee ships. Most are richer, better-

educated people who fly in – on economy class – to seek better jobs. The majority are transients who leave eventually."

SG by nature attracts transient's, it services the world therefore as the world economy turns to shit, SG's follows a similar curve. there will be layoffs, downsizing and people leaving the country, educated or not.

PR's will always have the choice to leave SG and there is nothing the government can do about it. long gone are days of loyalty to a company (sadly) and to a certain extent this attitude been passed on to residents.

it seems to me Singaporeans are more pissed about;

"Instead, they resent the longer queues, increased job competition, depressed wages and the higher costs of almost every thing, especially in public housing."

rather than foreigners upskilling in SG and leaving.
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Post by econoMIC » Mon, 05 Oct 2009 4:51 am

mrlily wrote: ...PR's will always have the choice to leave SG and there is nothing the government can do about it. long gone are days of loyalty to a company (sadly) and to a certain extent this attitude been passed on to residents...
Very true. Loyalty is gone in general these days, not only towards employers. But I dare to say it is not only the PRs that can leave the country any time without the government being able to do anything. Remember 2004 when everybody was talking about the quitters who left for Australia. Fortunately Singaporeans are also free to leave as they wish and many still do every year to study abroad and then stay there.
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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 05 Oct 2009 7:15 am

It's unfortunate that there are those who don't see the downside to this (from the long-stayers POV). It's because of the abuse of the system that is causing life to be rough for the long stayers as now our subsidies are being cut due to the abuses of those who don't realize that PR, by definition, means long stayer and not just a visa of sorts that doesn't have an expiry date, thereby allowing the job loser to hang around a long as he wants.

The sooner we get rid of them, the better it will be for the actual longstayers. I think that's the direction the government may be taking now. I would like to think my stint on CNA may have helped move in that direction. :wink:
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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