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Crushing under Uncertainties

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

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Postby nakatago » Tue, 06 Oct 2009 2:53 pm

@OP: I know I'd echoing the others but since you're looking for reassurance, I say go for option B. It's safer and better for the long term as SE suggests. Also, if she'll apply from KL, if a company will hire her, it will most likely for a higher-salaried pass. Her qualifications should make her confident. She can always travel for interviews or you can travel to spend some quality time with her.

If she stays here, aside from spending more (because of the standard of living), she may be pressured to taking the first job that comes along which has a high probability of being NOT a good choice. And even with a job, she still has to go through the trouble of having her pass approved--if at all. Getting a job will not guarantee a pass. Plan A is just too risky, if you ask me.

All you have to do now is give your assurances that things will work out for you both.

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Re: Crushing under Uncertainties

Postby mrswkn » Wed, 07 Oct 2009 3:17 pm

[quote="analyst"]Dear forumers,

I was told by my employer that I will not be eligible for CPF until I obtain my PR status. Contemplating on this issue, and the intention to stay put for long term in Singapore, I deem PR status a necessity to me. Is my presumption correct on the working requirement period?

Congrats on your new job. You can apply for PR immediately and if all goes smoothly, you'll get it in 3 months or so. You need a letter from your employer stating that they support the application.

Your employer is right, CPF contribution starts after getting PR. You will find in the internet the level of contribution for 1st year, etc. Not everyone wants to be a PR as your CPF is sort of stuck there unless you are from west malaysia. However, I personally think that it is good to have forced savings as I observe some young ppl in Singapore spend a lot of money in places like St James Power Station.

On a side story, I was browsing through the forum and noticed the drawbacks of holding a Work Permit. My gf (a Malaysian as well) is aggressively applying for jobs in Singapore. She holds a Bachelor Degree in Business Administration. We've been co-habitating in Malaysia and she is freaking out on the fact that I will be relocated to Singapore soon. Having said that, I convince her that she should stay put in Malaysia and only move to Singapore if she secures a job with the condition it is a S-Pass and not a Work Permit.

It is best that she move here only when you have settled down with a place to stay, knows your way around, sorted out finances and saved sufficient fund, etc. Depending on which part of Malaysia you are from, it is not easy to find a job if she need to travel 5 hours down and another 5 hours up for every interview. BA is a very common degree, it is not easy for her to find a good job fast as there are fresh graduates from NUS, NTU, SMU and polys. I think that Singapore graduates are more savvy and errm, better groomed.

Currently she is disturbed and willing to resign and take up any job just to be with me. The opportunity cost is just to heavy to shoulder. I am persistent on my stand and would like to seek opinion on the forumers here. Am I too stubborn or cruel to leave her behind until she finds a S-Pass job? (I am just traumatised by the Singaporean/SPR marriage to Work Permit thread).

You are lucky your girlfriend wants to join you here since your long term plan is to be in Singapore. I let my husband wait for 10 yrs before I finally moved here. What is her work in Malaysia? If she is in accounting, it would be easy to get a job but if it is admin related or HR, I think it would be a challenge.

On the other hand, she is on the stand to resign and move to Singapore with me while applying for jobs rather than travelling down for an opportunity to interview. Whole-heartedly I wish she could secure a S-Pass job before I commence work. I am just crushing on the uncertainties lingering around. I told her on the consequences of not securing a job in Singapore but she was adamant. I am just lost.[/quote]

She seems to love you enough to uproot for you. I was not so sacrificing as her. If she is the one you intend to marry, you can spend RM30 and register for marriage in Malaysia. When you apply for PR in Singapore, just include her. She will be PR automatically with you. Maybe the approval will be easier since many Malaysians eventually convert to citizens and contribute to increased population.

Well, she won't feel so insecure since you are both "registered". Once both of your PR-ship are approved, she can apply for job with PR status. It is easier for the potential employers to hire a PR as they don't have to go through the hassle of getting the S Pass.

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Postby mrswkn » Wed, 07 Oct 2009 3:35 pm

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Last edited by mrswkn on Wed, 17 Apr 2013 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby analyst » Wed, 07 Oct 2009 4:03 pm

I couldnt appreciate more with the feedbacks I received. Thanks for the support folks.

The plan is a bit topsy-turvy at the moment. She will be attending 2 interviews on Thursday and 1 on Friday. Temporarily, I am shutting down my "plans" and keeping my fingers crossed. IF she pulls this off, a sigh of relief i would blow.

With the recent news of tightening on foreign intakes and Sg citizens expressing disdain towards government manpower policies, relocation will be even tougher than ever. Both of us have come far and will keep trying despite the challenges ahead.

Nothing much to speculate now but to sit and wait with anticipation.
Venturing into adulthood is sure a headache....

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Postby nakatago » Wed, 07 Oct 2009 4:32 pm

But with the maturity you've shown in handling this situation, I'm pretty sure that whatever happens, you'll be able to handle it. Even if the outcome would not be favorable to you, you'll surely be able to decide which course of action you'd think would be best for all concerned for the given situation.

"You'll do ok, kid." :D

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Postby irvine » Thu, 08 Oct 2009 3:52 pm

Wow, two interviews in a week. That's a good encouragement, especially in these times. Don't worry about the tightening part, you both should be fine.

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Postby Cold December Rain » Fri, 09 Oct 2009 2:06 am

You may think that the current situation is just too difficult and life's not fair. Just stay positive and things will only get better.
Love conquers all! So hang in there and keep moving forward...

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Postby analyst » Fri, 09 Oct 2009 4:12 pm

Cold, Irvine and Naka,

Thanks on the words of encouragement. Certainly need a lot of doses =)

Good news. After 4 hectic interviews in Singapore, she finally landed 2 jobs!!!!!. My birthday recently passed and my wish was granted. I thank God so much for answering my calling.

Althought the job does not come with a "Wow" package but I hope it will serve as a stepping stone for 2 young enthusiasts eagerly to better their lives, or should I say- seeking a transition of civilization =).

Here are the 2 jobs detail:

1st: Product Developmeny Assistant Exec.
Salary: $1600
Pass Type: Work Permit

2nd: Sales and Marketing Exec (although it sounds like sales, but it is more of a coordinator job - ensuring smooth transaction of international trades)
Salary: $1600 + Commisions
Pass Type: HR will try their best to get an E-pass. If not S-pass.

Looking at the two packages, is it advisable to go for the 2nd job?

Apparently the 2nd job needs to be verified, if MOM approves the recruit by the firm. No offer letter to be given without approval, literally. I find it odd as it intimidates applicant to sign offer letter when you need to get approval from MOM first. Applicant will be implicitly "threatened" to sign the offer letter since MOM database already has applicant's detail. A rejection upon scrutinizing the offer letter will leave a bad impression to MOM on this applicant as he/she will be perceived as a job hopper.

Am I being paranoid here? Is this a common practice in Singapore, recruitment to be approved by MOM first before handling of offer letter to successful applicant?

It certainly doesnt happen to me.

p/s: Good luck nakatagano on the PR application.

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Postby econoMIC » Fri, 09 Oct 2009 4:38 pm

analyst wrote:Cold, Irvine and Naka,

Thanks on the words of encouragement. Certainly need a lot of doses =)

Good news. After 4 hectic interviews in Singapore, she finally landed 2 jobs!!!!!. My birthday recently passed and my wish was granted. I thank God so much for answering my calling.

Althought the job does not come with a "Wow" package but I hope it will serve as a stepping stone for 2 young enthusiasts eagerly to better their lives, or should I say- seeking a transition of civilization =).

Here are the 2 jobs detail:

1st: Product Developmeny Assistant Exec.
Salary: $1600
Pass Type: Work Permit

2nd: Sales and Marketing Exec (although it sounds like sales, but it is more of a coordinator job - ensuring smooth transaction of international trades)
Salary: $1600 + Commisions
Pass Type: HR will try their best to get an E-pass. If not S-pass.

Looking at the two packages, is it advisable to go for the 2nd job?

Apparently the 2nd job needs to be verified, if MOM approves the recruit by the firm. No offer letter to be given without approval, literally. I find it odd as it intimidates applicant to sign offer letter when you need to get approval from MOM first. Applicant will be implicitly "threatened" to sign the offer letter since MOM database already has applicant's detail. A rejection upon scrutinizing the offer letter will leave a bad impression to MOM on this applicant as he/she will be perceived as a job hopper.

Am I being paranoid here? Is this a common practice in Singapore, recruitment to be approved by MOM first before handling of offer letter to successful applicant?

It certainly doesnt happen to me.

p/s: Good luck nakatagano on the PR application.


It maybe wasn't up to a god but more up to hard work and her doing well at the interviews. So she should take some credit for it :wink:

I would opt for the 2nd offer. The first offer is work permit based. That can give problems in the future, so she should definitely aim for the other one with the s-pass or EP. Having said that, given the current changes, she can't be sure she gets the EP or s-pass until it has been granted by MOM, so I would quickly opt for the 2nd offer, trying to get it approved ASAP while keeping the 1st offer "open" as long as possible.
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 09 Oct 2009 4:43 pm

analyst wrote:A rejection upon scrutinizing the offer letter will leave a bad impression to MOM on this applicant as he/she will be perceived as a job hopper.

Am I being paranoid here? Is this a common practice in Singapore, recruitment to be approved by MOM first before handling of offer letter to successful applicant?


This is BS! We have multiple applicants quite often. It make no difference one way or the other "Unless" the company tries to blackball you. Even then, MOM doesn't care unless you have done a runner or something else illegal. Don't worry about it. Frankly though, the 2nd job doesn't sound like the kind of company ethics that I'd be happy to work for. But at the end of the day that you decision.

With a salary offer of $1600 the employer will NOT be able to get her either an E or S pass. It will have to be a WP as well. However, be careful if the employer is submitting her application for amounts of $1800 or above while only paying her $1600. This is happening with all too much regularity but more and more errant employers are being caught and brought to task. If this IS happening then MOM will look at both the Employer and Employee as being in collusion and she would then kicked out of the country while the employer would just get a fine and a ban from hiring foreigners for a period of time.

Please make sure the offer is above board.

Regarding your second paragraph above, sadly this is practiced widely for low level / WP / S pass positions with local companies here. While it's unprofessional, it is rather commonplace. It would be simpler to just insert a clause in the contract/offer letter stating offer is dependent on the successful application for the relevant working visa.

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Postby analyst » Fri, 09 Oct 2009 4:54 pm

economic and SMS,

Noted with thanks!!.

SMS,
These are those info I couldnt get from MOM websites. Appreciate your prompt feedback. However, through the S and EP eligibility test, she was awarded an S pass but no EP after keying the salary less than $1800. Although this doesnt serve as an assurance, I hope it is not flawed.

I guess my apprehension on the job hopping issue is redundant. I hope the employer is not playing games. She enquired the HR and most of the employees obtained at least S pass and some EP (if lucky) from MOM, same salary and qualification, ceteris paribus.

I hope the company's revenue factor and qouta for S pass is fine with MOM. Till the approval, we can only sit and wait with anticipation. Didnt know a department's approval is a man destiny. Isnt that too much of a power? I was just....sulking and salivating.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 09 Oct 2009 6:01 pm

As can be seen from the two quotes taken from the MOM site, with a salary quoted at $1600, she will not be able to obtain either of the passes unless the employer is falsifying the application.

The online assessment tool only tells if a person is qualified academically. But to be approved both the employee's credentials AND the employers needs and monetary offer must be approved as well. It's a two part approval.

S Pass applicants accumulate points based on how far they meet the criteria. As a general guide, these criteria can be broadly described as (for illustrative purposes only):

* Salary - refers to a minimum fixed salary of $1,800.

Q1 Pass – for applicants earning a fixed monthly salary of more than $2,500 and he/she possesses recognised qualifications.

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Postby analyst » Mon, 19 Oct 2009 4:53 pm

Folks,

I read from the MOM website a 25% qouta on Spass. This is equivalent of 4 Singaporeans/ SPR employed to hire 1 S-pass holder. Correct me if I'm wrong.

For a small local firm is it possible for a company of 5-6 people, to hire 2-3 S-passes? Any chance for the employer to walk out unscathed by the law? Am consufing with the qouta imposed and the offer made by the firm.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 19 Oct 2009 5:24 pm

You are wrong.

A 25% quota, mean that for every 4 employees, 1 is allowed to be an S pass holder. Your way would mean a 20% ratio. The mix allowed is dependent on the dependency ratio which is different from industry to industry. The service industry, for instance, is a 50% ratio. meaning for every Singaporean/PR you are allowed to hire one foreigner. Under this scenario a company could have three Local/PRs and 1 S pass holder or 2 local/prs & one WP holder & 1 S pass holder.

The quota base line is figured from the preceeding 3 months CPF/Levy roles as a running average.

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Postby analyst » Wed, 21 Oct 2009 8:38 am

Thanks a heap SMS!!

I think I got the qouta concept horrendously wrong.

Well amidst of the uncertainties, she was offered another job by a MNC offering $1800. However, it is a 1-year contract based job and convertible upon conditions. Surprisingly, the S-pass application will be handed over to an employment agency but not managed by the internal HR department. Is this a norm for huge MNC?

As delighted as we were, we rang up MOM to highlight the issue on the double application of S-pass. MOM advised to inform the previous employer to withdraw its application, period. They did convince me that it won't jeopardize our future application.

Now, we had rung up the previous employer and apologized on the sudden withdrawal along with a formal written email. If fact the withdrawal was due to the knowledge of knowing some false claims made by the company to MOM to secure passes. Feeling uncomfortable and of course coupled by a better and secure offer the reason given was unforeseen circumstances.

The problem is, the previous employer has applied the S-pass manually. Today, it has been barely 2 weeks and no approval has been given by MOM (no records found from the website). So my question is:

1. Should we highlight this matter to the agent?
2. How does MOM gonna deal with this?
3. As in our position, what could we do to expedite the process?

*Analyst is seeking enlightenment.


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