Crushing under Uncertainties

[analyst]

Dear forumers,

While the economy still lurks in the dark, I got lucky after persistent applications for jobs in Singapore. For clarity, I am not on an Expat/Semi-expat package. I am a Malaysian and was offered a decent local package considering my education and experience. Recently, I got my EP approved under the "enhanced" EP application system effective 1 July 2009 and would be able to collect my EP identification card.

Correct me if I am wrong, I browsed through the net and forum for PR application and there is no single indication on working period requirement. Is it safe for me to apply after 1 month of employment? I was told by my employer that I will not be eligible for CPF until I obtain my PR status. Contemplating on this issue, and the intention to stay put for long term in Singapore, I deem PR status a necessity to me. Is my presumption correct on the working requirement period?

On a side story, I was browsing through the forum and noticed the drawbacks of holding a Work Permit. My gf (a Malaysian as well) is aggressively applying for jobs in Singapore. She holds a Bachelor Degree in Business Administration. We've been co-habitating in Malaysia and she is freaking out on the fact that I will be relocated to Singapore soon. Having said that, I convince her that she should stay put in Malaysia and only move to Singapore if she secures a job with the condition it is a S-Pass and not a Work Permit.

Currently she is disturbed and willing to resign and take up any job just to be with me. The opportunity cost is just to heavy to shoulder. I am persistent on my stand and would like to seek opinion on the forumers here. Am I too stubborn or cruel to leave her behind until she finds a S-Pass job? (I am just traumatised by the Singaporean/SPR marriage to Work Permit thread).

On the other hand, she is on the stand to resign and move to Singapore with me while applying for jobs rather than travelling down for an opportunity to interview. Whole-heartedly I wish she could secure a S-Pass job before I commence work. I am just crushing on the uncertainties lingering around. I told her on the consequences of not securing a job in Singapore but she was adamant. I am just lost.

[Optimus_prime]

hey analyst, sorry for being blunt but why all the drama? I'm in Singapore on an EP from the UK and my wife & daughter are on DP (dependants) - my wife managed to find part-time work subsequently as an English teacher here on the weekends, no problem really. maybe I'm not really understanding your situation, but it seems you're a bit concerned about nothing. she can just come over with you and live here on a DP whilst looking for work...with regards to your EP to PR issue, yes you can only qualify for CPF once you've got the PR but I think it's something you can apply for very quickly. there's a guy at my work from Malaysia and he got it very swiftly after arriving - guess this bit depends on your level of education and qualifications etc. I'm sure you can check all the minor details out over on the MOM website. good luck

[irvine]

She can come on Social pass, either one month or two weeks at a time, or get a long term stamp from ICA.

She should come only if you could afford it, i.e. rent (a bigger room to fit two person), food, general expenses. This amount is variable as long as it takes for her to find a job.

She should not get a job on work permit (less than $1800 salary) , as you already know about the marriage part.

As for application for PR, you need 6 payslips, i.e. at least 6 months of working here in Singapore.

[monday]

Dear Analyst.
Yes, You'll be eligible for CPF until I obtain my PR status. you are eligible to apply for PR once u got work permits like Spass Q1, Q2, P pass but it's all case by case. I don't think they consider if u apply in 1 month of ur service better apply after 6 month atleast, because there is form which should be filled by ur employer has sign and give the company detalis and turnover though it's not mean that ur company supporting you but it's very important one by MOM or ICA eyes. Can apply without the form but u should reason in this case u need to attach 6 months of ur payslip and copy of ur appointment order which is given by ur company, but again everything case by case?!?!?! it not sure that every one who applied for PR will get. go through thi link http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=151.

Ur Gfriend can't just came over with u and stay singapore like what optimus_ prime said it's not all possible in Singapore she have proper visa.

Ur Gfriend can't stay in singapore untill she has availd Pass and one think rigth now she is not ur depend only wife and childern will depend who have S, Q1,Q2 and P pass holder and only P pass can get long term visa for parents. ( DP pass holder can work but options are less )

The Work Pass in Singapore has divded in different categories: S pass bascial for skilled persons, the basic salary must be more than S$1,800 Q1- more than S$2500 and Q2- more than S$ 3000. some company don't want pay much though the candiate is well educated so they apply s pass for even Master degree holders. so ask ur Gfriend to get job first to stay in Singapore.

How old are may I? Befor come to singapore be familir with all legle and illegle consequences. Go through All goverment website particulry MOM www.mom.gov.sg and ICA http://www.ica.gov.sg

Hope my information will help u!

All the best.

Monday

[monday]

Dear anaLyst

Sorry have that worng regards pass it is P1, P2 And Q1 not Q1, Q2 And P pass. Click on this http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/momportal ... _pass.html

Monday

[analyst]

Optimus_prime,

I understand the points you’re laying out. But I am afraid you got the situations wrong. Nonetheless, appreciate your reply and some story of yours.

Irvine,
I fully comprehend with the regulations after tons of research done. Assurance is what I am looking for. The part where 6 payslips are required for application enlightens me. Thank you.

I’ve checked the MOM website where there is an eligibility test that we could run to know the appropriate pass possibly granted. Apparently, a basic salary lower than $1800 and as long as you have a degree, you are qualified for a S-Pass. While the eligibility test does not constitute an assurance, have you come across any friends of you who garner a salary lower than $1800 and yet being awarded a S-Pass?

Monday,
I have a hard time trying to decipher your puzzle. Nevertheless, I know you are of good intention. I am still looking for answer of my judgment. I don’t know if I am executing a right decision to go the republic without my gf. I am being a wuss. Seriously hope she will be able to secure a job before November. My decision will be clear cut if miracle happens.

[Strong Eagle]

Dear forumers,

While the economy still lurks in the dark, I got lucky after persistent applications for jobs in Singapore. For clarity, I am not on an Expat/Semi-expat package. I am a Malaysian and was offered a decent local package considering my education and experience. Recently, I got my EP approved under the "enhanced" EP application system effective 1 July 2009 and would be able to collect my EP identification card.

Congrats on the EP! A good start.

Correct me if I am wrong, I browsed through the net and forum for PR application and there is no single indication on working period requirement. Is it safe for me to apply after 1 month of employment?

Safe?? I don't think anyone is going to drag you out of your bedroom and beat you with rubber hoses because you applied for PR. But it is highly unlikely that you will qualify at this time because the criteria for awarding PR have been tightened up quite a bit. And from the posts of others who have been rejected, you will need to wait 2 years to re-apply. Bottom line: Apply no earlier than one year, two is more realistic.

I was told by my employer that I will not be eligible for CPF until I obtain my PR status. Contemplating on this issue, and the intention to stay put for long term in Singapore, I deem PR status a necessity to me. Is my presumption correct on the working requirement period?

What was your presumption "on the working requirement period"? What's the rush to pay CPF anyway? If you want to save, save the money that would have been deducted as CPF. And remember that there are unscrupulous employers that deduct the employer portion out of your wage as well... that is a big hit.

On a side story, I was browsing through the forum and noticed the drawbacks of holding a Work Permit. My gf (a Malaysian as well) is aggressively applying for jobs in Singapore. She holds a Bachelor Degree in Business Administration. We've been co-habitating in Malaysia and she is freaking out on the fact that I will be relocated to Singapore soon. Having said that, I convince her that she should stay put in Malaysia and only move to Singapore if she secures a job with the condition it is a S-Pass and not a Work Permit.

Currently she is disturbed and willing to resign and take up any job just to be with me. The opportunity cost is just to heavy to shoulder. I am persistent on my stand and would like to seek opinion on the forumers here. Am I too stubborn or cruel to leave her behind until she finds a S-Pass job? (I am just traumatised by the Singaporean/SPR marriage to Work Permit thread).

On the other hand, she is on the stand to resign and move to Singapore with me while applying for jobs rather than travelling down for an opportunity to interview. Whole-heartedly I wish she could secure a S-Pass job before I commence work. I am just crushing on the uncertainties lingering around. I told her on the consequences of not securing a job in Singapore but she was adamant. I am just lost.

You know the rules. She knows the rules. If she obtains a work permit you two are at risk for ever being able to marry in Singapore. If you and she are willing to live with that, then she could come in on a work permit... but note that work permits have really been pulled back by MOM... worse quotas and more rules on the employer... so she might have a tough time.

There is probably no reason she cannot travel back and forth periodically to fins at least an S-Pass job... and frankly... even though it puts you two apart, this makes the most sense if you really want your job. You are risking negative long term consequences to satisfy short term need. My wife and I were separated by 10,000 miles for 2 years while I started my business. I can be done.

[jpatokal]

Analyst -- which EP do you have? The easiest solution would be to have your wife come here on a dependent's pass (DP), and then she can look for work and apply for a letter of consent if she finds some.

[Strong Eagle]

Analyst -- which EP do you have? The easiest solution would be to have your wife come here on a dependent's pass (DP), and then she can look for work and apply for a letter of consent if she finds some.

Well... DUH... absolutely correct. If you are coming in on a P1, P2, or Q1 pass, your WIFE can come in on a DP. If you are coming in on a P1 or P2 pass then you can apply for a long term social visit pass for a common law spouse... but you tell me if that is the situation with you... and how you prove it up.

[analyst]

Strong Eagle & jpatokal,

I am on a P2 pass. Let me clarify the ambiguous part of the discussion. She is my girlfriend and not my wife. I think the biggest hurdle is whether she could find a job here. If she does and the employer is willing to apply a S-pass at the very least, our problems will be solved.

My main concern is whether it is pragmatic approach to resign and take the chances to apply jobs while staying in Sg. As perceived, lots of employer in her industry prefers immediate start (she is in marketing coordination field). OR stay put in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia while looking for job. Having said that, she will be all by herself here as her family is far north the peninsular. And to travel to Sg for interview back n fro it takes 1 fully exhausted day. Hectic and torturous.

That's why I am in a quandary now. The grey area seems....very risky to take. Sould I bite the bullet? Iam dealing with somebody's daughter and I dont want to ruin her life.

On the PR application, I think I will adhere to Eagle's advice. I dont want to take the chances as I deem them too grave to take.

p/s: I am 24 yr old and not financially and emotionally ready for marriage.

[ksl]

Strong Eagle & jpatokal,

I am on a P2 pass. Let me clarify the ambiguous part of the discussion. She is my girlfriend and not my wife. I think the biggest hurdle is whether she could find a job here. If she does and the employer is willing to apply a S-pass at the very least, our problems will be solved.

My main concern is whether it is pragmatic approach to resign and take the chances to apply jobs while staying in Sg. As perceived, lots of employer in her industry prefers immediate start (she is in marketing coordination field). OR stay put in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia while looking for job. Having said that, she will be all by herself here as her family is far north the peninsular. And to travel to Sg for interview back n fro it takes 1 fully exhausted day. Hectic and torturous.

That's why I am in a quandary now. The grey area seems....very risky to take. Sould I bite the bullet? Iam dealing with somebody's daughter and I dont want to ruin her life.

On the PR application, I think I will adhere to Eagle's advice. I dont want to take the chances as I deem them too grave to take.

p/s: I am 24 yr old and not financially and emotionally ready for marriage.

If she is Malaysian she does have preferential treatment, if you are both of the same religion you will need the documentation to back up your de facto relationship, not easy if it's also illegal in Malaysia Though it is easier for her to find work, their are many established from Malaysia that only target their own people in business so she's in with a chance and she doesn't really need the education, but it does help. If she can speak Indian too then I would be interested in her CV! To develop the Indian market. I'm not too worried about her Chinese language, English & Indian and Malay is a must.

I am 24 yr old and not financially and emotionally ready for marriage.

Mmm, that make's you more intelligent than most of us

[irvine]

Hi analyst, I'm glad to hear your maturity at 24. Being able to be on a P2 at age 24 is a good thing. In six months' time, you can apply for your PR. It is important for at least one person to be stable in terms of immigration status and finances.

As for your Gf, please don't target just for an S-Pass. She's got a bachelor's degree and at least 1-2 year of experience, doesn't she? I would target a good headstart of a Q1. Else, subsequent job salary won't be far from $1800. Brush up her resume real good, pray real hard, and keep on applying. Network too if she can.

A good headstart is important for her bcoz fact of life, things are ExPeNsIvE here in Singapore. As both future PRs, if you'd like to buy a flat in Singapore, you'd have to go for a resale flat - and that can get expensive. Unless of course, you're buying a house in JB/Ledang then you'd need to buy probably a Singapore car to commute daily. Yes that's far ahead, but it is something to think about as well.

[2cents from experience] Another thing you could 'calm' your Gf, is to reassure her of your love. Seriously. Listen to her, and understand what she's going through now may be traumatic. Yes it sounds too serious, but it may be true. To a woman, this situation may represent uncertainties, and that may include the possibility of the departure (permanent or temporary) of her love. Make an effort to visit her every weekend/other weekend, etc. It helps. Offer something she could look forward to. It need not be marriage as yet, but something like you're visiting her two weeks from the start of work, etc.

[analyst]

Hi Irvine,

I tried to reply your message but I am afraid my account is restricted/conditional.

I understand where you are coming from. God willing, I hope she could secure a Q1 pass job. Some reality chats here. She is not from top Ivy leagues, but a local grad in Malaysia with a Second Class (Lower) degree in Business Administration. Study just isn’t her forte. Furthermore, English isn’t her mother tongue and is her 3rd language. She can speak and write of course but from a scale of 1 – 10 with 10 being the proficiency of Strong Eagle, she would probably score 3. She is low self-esteem and I am trying my level best to converse with her in English day-to-day. Her stronghold is with Mandarin. She speaks 3 dialects fluently, Cantonese, Hakka and Mandarin (writing as well). Meanwhile, Malay is her 2nd language.

Don't mean to be dramatic but I guess I will roll the red carpet with 2 options I have in mind.

Plan A
She will resign from her current employment and withdraw from British Council English Class (She enrolled and paid RM 730 which is equivalent to 2 months rental here in KL, Msia). Subsequently, we will find tenant on our current rented room in Kuala Lumpur as we have 2 months rental and 1 month utility deposits trapped. I will liquidate myself (I have a commitment on huge borrowings to fund my undergrad studies which I am filing and appeal to my current company who sponsored me –(S$24 to S$60k depending on the appeal). Next, we will migrate to Singapore and find a room in a HDB. I will start my new job while she scouts for job.

Plan B
I will move to Singapore ahead and stay with my friends (sharing a HDB flat). She will NOT resign and stay put to her current job whilst applying in Singapore all by herself in Kuala Lumpur. In the event of interview, she will commit herself to travel down south for the opportunity. Also, she will continue with British Council English Studies and find new tenants for the current home in Kuala Lumpur (By herself) to retrieve our deposits. After she manages to secure a job, I will move out and stay with her in a new HDB room.

She is indecisive with both plans. I may only help her with the brainstorming but I certainly CANT help her to conclude. As a boyfriend am lost with words and sometimes heartache to see her in such torment. I wanted the best for both and I believe by seeking more opinions enlightenment will follow.

Currently pursuing my professional studies and I can’t foresee traveling that often. She has been for 2 interviews and awaiting for results. I wish someone special up there will lessen our burden my giving her an S-pass job.

p/s: This may be an amorous post, but when you are lost, you do foolish things. Is better to be ridiculed rather than be sorry for the wrong steps we take in life.

[Strong Eagle]

Next, we will migrate to Singapore and find a room in a HDB. I will start my new job while she scouts for job.

Just one small problem with Plan A... she can't legally live in Singapore.

I'll say it again... you really should look to the longer term... if your love and hers is true you will still be together when she finally does get that job.

[irvine]

Being able to speak Mandarin and 3 dialects is a rare strength. Seriously. Better yet if she could write proper Mandarin as in for business use. Nevermind, as long she knows good Mandarin, that can be trained and practiced.

Glad to see your sense of reality and being so helpful to your gf. Perhaps she should target companies set up by Malaysians or locals for her first job, i.e. those servicing the Mandaring/dialect speaking areas. While she could improve on her English over time, she should also be proud of her Mandarin/dialect skills. Perhaps there's an area of passion she is able to target on as well.

You are believing all these could be straightened out. Now it's her turn to believe too.