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Want to talk to other dp pass holders looking for work

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Krocky
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Want to talk to other dp pass holders looking for work

Postby Krocky » Tue, 22 Sep 2009 12:01 pm

Hi All

I am a dp holding female 37 from Amsterdam.
I want to meet and talk with other dp holders about the options we have for a career here in Singapore. Maybe we can combine skills and set up a consultancy or something similar

Anyone interested mail me:

i.f.barri@hotmail.com

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Re: Want to talk to other dp pass holders looking for work

Postby jpatokal » Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:51 pm

Krocky wrote:I am a dp holding female 37 from Amsterdam.
I want to meet and talk with other dp holders about the options we have for a career here in Singapore. Maybe we can combine skills and set up a consultancy or something similar.

I hate to rain on your parade, but as far as I'm aware, it's not possible for a DP to start up a company or freelance in Singapore. DP holders can only work if they get a Letter of Consent from MOM, and that in turn requires an employer paying a steady monthly salary.
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Re: Want to talk to other dp pass holders looking for work

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:18 am

jpatokal wrote:
Krocky wrote:I am a dp holding female 37 from Amsterdam.
I want to meet and talk with other dp holders about the options we have for a career here in Singapore. Maybe we can combine skills and set up a consultancy or something similar.

I hate to rain on your parade, but as far as I'm aware, it's not possible for a DP to start up a company or freelance in Singapore. DP holders can only work if they get a Letter of Consent from MOM, and that in turn requires an employer paying a steady monthly salary.


I am sorry, JP... that is completely incorrect. DP's may register a business or a company at ACRA, then have that company apply for the letter of consent. By email and phone I was assured by MOM that LOC's are almost always granted except for certain types of businesses.

So, yes, DP'ers can form a company and freelance with no issues.

See also:

ftopic60398.html

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Re: Want to talk to other dp pass holders looking for work

Postby jpatokal » Wed, 23 Sep 2009 5:53 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:I am sorry, JP... that is completely incorrect. DP's may register a business or a company at ACRA, then have that company apply for the letter of consent. By email and phone I was assured by MOM that LOC's are almost always granted except for certain types of businesses.

So, yes, DP'ers can form a company and freelance with no issues.


I stand mostly corrected :oops: , although having reread that thread, "with no issues" seems to be a bit of stretch -- these are, if not quite uncharted, then at least unfamiliar waters even for the MOM. One thing that struck me: one condition for getting the LOC is a fixed monthly salary, no? How does that square with being a freelancer/entrepreneur with variable income -- will MOM accept a $1 fixed salary (the thread implies, but does not confirm, that they will not) or can you just say eg. $2500 and and pay yourself a lump sum of $2500 x 12 once a year?
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Re: Want to talk to other dp pass holders looking for work

Postby Strong Eagle » Wed, 23 Sep 2009 6:05 pm

jpatokal wrote:I stand mostly corrected :oops: , although having reread that thread, "with no issues" seems to be a bit of stretch -- these are, if not quite uncharted, then at least unfamiliar waters even for the MOM. One thing that struck me: one condition for getting the LOC is a fixed monthly salary, no? How does that square with being a freelancer/entrepreneur with variable income -- will MOM accept a $1 fixed salary (the thread implies, but does not confirm, that they will not) or can you just say eg. $2500 and and pay yourself a lump sum of $2500 x 12 once a year?


That is a very interesting question, JP. In the conversations with MOM officials that I had, there was no mention of the salary amounts... and AFAIK, the salary is not necessarily a deal maker or deal breaker - then again, what do I know.

There are several people on this board who have done just that, and I know of 3 others on a DP who have created a company in order to free lance and/or work contract.

But I wouldn't be too surprised in the 'new' economy to see the interpretation of the rules and the granting of an LOC tightened up.

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Postby Krocky » Thu, 24 Sep 2009 1:50 pm

Thank you for your concerns regarding the wellbeing of my business.

I have chosen a private limited and not a sole ownership so that kind of difficulties doesn't seem to apply for my business structure as far as i can see.
I was hoping to attract some dp's to start talks about the various skills available, under dpholders, to look for opportunities in combining forces.

Personally I am more organizational orientated but if i meet 6 cooks well hey maybe we can also work something out.

As you already seem focused on the topic of starting up your own business may i inquire what your skillset is?
Last edited by Krocky on Thu, 24 Sep 2009 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 24 Sep 2009 1:54 pm

Krocky wrote:I already have set up a company and can hire who ever i want in my parade :D


But, this just pushes the question down the road, doesn't it? If you want to hire a DP and apply for a letter of consent, what will you put down for salary and turnover?

I'm glad you've got the company set up. I am keenly interested to know how things work in the new, more tightly constricted employment pass environment.

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Postby Krocky » Thu, 24 Sep 2009 2:16 pm

Oops you already read my initial unbussinesslike response. :D

Well since i have a private limited, i tought i could invite shareholders to take stake in that entity of my company and to offer their own services under a common banner.
I mean if i find lets say a auditor, accountant, market researcher etc or other professions that can be combined, we could form a team, with equal shares, in that undertaking of the bussiness and offer in the role as director our services.

Please do correct me if i haven't seen all the obstacles, i am just playing with an idea.
Last edited by Krocky on Thu, 24 Sep 2009 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Krocky » Thu, 24 Sep 2009 2:24 pm

The stakes don't have to be high just shared start up costs, i just demand 2 shares more then the rest, because i started it and don't want to risk a take over in my tender beginnings.

A company can have different undertakings: right?!
So i could start a seperate entity under the same banner, get some people in, who can then get to work in their fields cooperating with me and others. Any sums of contracts would then be divided by the people in the team.
I thought this would help me putting up extra ventures and at the same time would help other dp holders.
I know this means actively working together to advertise, get contract's and deliver the service we offer but if we succeed the rewards would also be higher then the paycheck you would normally recieve.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 24 Sep 2009 4:27 pm

You are confusing ownership with participation in profits, and employees/employment passes.

You do not have to be an employee to own stock and an employee can own stock. I can't really see any reason for anybody besides yourself to be the owner. If you intend to pay profits as dividends they are taxed at the corporate rate (although there are lots of allowances that will prevent a small company from incurring tax).

If everyone is to participate equally then you set up a profit sharing arrangement. Instead of receiving salaries people receive a pre-determined percentage of profits.

But the rub still remains... your employees must be legal to work... and as noted DP's can work... but under tighter arrangements no one really knows what it takes to get an LOC.

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Postby Zeenit » Thu, 24 Sep 2009 5:23 pm

As a DP the one question that has not been answered is what are the services that this Consutlancy Co is going to offer.

You list of key people is really for the benefit of this Co itself and not the services it will offer to Singapore at large.
Sorry to sound so negative, but if you cant sell the idea to DPs' then you cant get it off the ground.
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Postby jpatokal » Thu, 24 Sep 2009 9:34 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:But, this just pushes the question down the road, doesn't it? If you want to hire a DP and apply for a letter of consent, what will you put down for salary and turnover?

Q: If you can set up your own company as a DP, do you even need the letter of consent? Obviously the company can't hire you as an employee or pay you a salary without one, and a DP can't legally "work" in Singapore without the LOC, but it should not necessary for dividends or even director's fees, right?

So if I'm reading this right, this means that the original EP holder can't start a company and has to slave away for a monthly wage, while his dependent can start a company and doesn't need any permission at all to passively manage a team of underlings and cream off all their profits as fees and dividends. :???:
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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:00 am

jpatokal wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:But, this just pushes the question down the road, doesn't it? If you want to hire a DP and apply for a letter of consent, what will you put down for salary and turnover?

Q: If you can set up your own company as a DP, do you even need the letter of consent? Obviously the company can't hire you as an employee or pay you a salary without one, and a DP can't legally "work" in Singapore without the LOC, but it should not necessary for dividends or even director's fees, right?

So if I'm reading this right, this means that the original EP holder can't start a company and has to slave away for a monthly wage, while his dependent can start a company and doesn't need any permission at all to passively manage a team of underlings and cream off all their profits as fees and dividends. :???:


Actually, that is a most refreshing view. I can find nothing wrong with it... indeed, it solves almost all problems for a DP. You and I would make a darn good red team for the folks that make the rules.

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Postby ksl » Fri, 25 Sep 2009 12:43 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
jpatokal wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:But, this just pushes the question down the road, doesn't it? If you want to hire a DP and apply for a letter of consent, what will you put down for salary and turnover?

Q: If you can set up your own company as a DP, do you even need the letter of consent? Obviously the company can't hire you as an employee or pay you a salary without one, and a DP can't legally "work" in Singapore without the LOC, but it should not necessary for dividends or even director's fees, right?

So if I'm reading this right, this means that the original EP holder can't start a company and has to slave away for a monthly wage, while his dependent can start a company and doesn't need any permission at all to passively manage a team of underlings and cream off all their profits as fees and dividends. :???:


Actually, that is a most refreshing view. I can find nothing wrong with it... indeed, it solves almost all problems for a DP. You and I would make a darn good red team for the folks that make the rules.


The answer is yes, you need a letter of consent, because the DP holder, that sets up a Company with a Singaporean PR must also furnish a business plan, and then the DP reverts to entrepass in its own right. which means they are not dependant longer if they are employing themself or someone else. There are many loop holes and what the company is offering can hardly be illegal, providing the DP holder that sets up the company is doing everything by the book. Yes it will eventually be closed anyway, but I guess the government looks at the economic policies involed, before interest is shown.

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Postby ksl » Fri, 25 Sep 2009 1:11 am

Strong Eagle wrote:You are confusing ownership with participation in profits, and employees/employment passes.

You do not have to be an employee to own stock and an employee can own stock. I can't really see any reason for anybody besides yourself to be the owner. If you intend to pay profits as dividends they are taxed at the corporate rate (although there are lots of allowances that will prevent a small company from incurring tax).

If everyone is to participate equally then you set up a profit sharing arrangement. Instead of receiving salaries people receive a pre-determined percentage of profits.

But the rub still remains... your employees must be legal to work... and as noted DP's can work... but under tighter arrangements no one really knows what it takes to get an LOC.

I recall SMS saying that i was anti authority, though that has never been the case, the case of business must always be working within the law, and maximising profits
Last edited by ksl on Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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