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Post by Strong Eagle » Mon, 07 Sep 2009 8:17 am

ceej1979, your truculent attitude is getting you nowhere at a high rate of speed.

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Re: Good luck

Post by Allibert » Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:41 am

ceej1979 wrote:
Allibert wrote:I don't want to dent your hopes and wish you the best of luck in your search but in your position, if I were stating that my written English is very good, I'd make sure I avoid the following mistakes:

A emigrating Brit - how about "an"
re-location - it's relocation
Reading Singaporean Newspapers - capital N?
high level - high-level?
sentences don't start with And or But,
my current company - who's blessing - it's whose

and there are several other mistakes

To be honest, your use of commas is pretty awful, too.

Anyway, good luck to you. I know a lot of people (myself included), like to come to Asia to avoid bad weather, long dark cold winters and to enjoy good food and experience a new environment. It is, all things considered, a very nice place to be.

Good luck with you job search but please do a grammar/spelling check before you send your applications out to prospective employers. Seriously, if I were an employer and you claimed your written English to be "high level", you wouldn't have got a reply from me either.

I don't want to sound like a pedantic ass but first impressions really do count.

Alan

Hi Alan

1: Seriously, it's the height of ignorance to go through people's hastily written doodles, trying to pick them up on grammar. I assure you, my boss (one of the top publishers in the country) makes mistakes all the time. I'm not egotistical enough to send her pointers on this, as I realise that there is a huge difference between professional writing, and an
e-mail.

You obviously don;t understand the meaning of ignorance either. You are the one looking for a job and if you cannot demonstrate that you can spell simple words you probably won't even get an interview, which from your comments seem to be the case


2: If ego is going to override commen-sense, and you do feel you have to come on here, simply trying to humiliate someone, I suggest you at least make sure you know what you are talking about.

Again, you can't even spell common sense, but I'm guessing this was hastily written too. That is just what publishing editors are looking for. They will love you here. by the way, I am not trying to humiliate anyone here, just pointing out that the qualities needed for the kind of work you're applying for seem to be sadly lacking.

Not to go into too much detail, but it is perfectly acceptable to start any sentence with either "And" or "But. The point you're making is a grammar factoid. The type of factoid twittering, unqualified twerps use all the time, to make a 100 word statement, somehow last 500.

Wrong again

Again, I really don't care what you make of a hastily written note to be honest. And really don't see the point in wasting people's time on here, with such egotistical garbage.
I wouldn't go so far as to call you egotistical garbage, but you're pretty close - offensive fits the bill nicely I think.

To be honest, I don't care what you think either. Obviously your application letters were hastily written to or you may not be quite what Singapore publishing houses are looking for. If you don't accept people's advice and think that you're going to get any kind of job here in Singapore with your attitude, I would suggest you are very sadly mistaken.

Obviously, you seem to have issues with anyone who is trying to give you any useful advice. In addition, with your attitude and great English ability, you don't seem to be having one iota of success in locating a job here. I would suggest you have several possibilities.

1. Continue being a royal prat and be turned down again and again
2. If they're so keen on having you in USA, go there
3. Stop being a prat and try to be a bit more humble. Your attitude will get you absolutely nowhere.
4. If you really think you're that good, come here and try and survive on a freelance basis.
5. Get your family to tie you over until you can prove your worth to them in whatever capacity

Seriously, though, I think you have a severe attitude problem. Nobody owes you anything and you are probably not God's gift to journalism. None of us actually care whether you get a job here. We're just offering advice so that you may have a slight chance. If you don't want to take the advice, that is your prerogative.

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Re: Good luck

Post by Jeppo » Mon, 07 Sep 2009 11:38 am

Allibert wrote:
ceej1979 wrote:Not to go into too much detail, but it is perfectly acceptable to start any sentence with either "And" or "But. The point you're making is a grammar factoid. The type of factoid twittering, unqualified twerps use all the time, to make a 100 word statement, somehow last 500.

Wrong again
If you're going to be a grammar nazi, at least get the facts straight

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/conjunctions.htm

""There is a persistent belief that it is improper to begin a sentence with And, but this prohibition has been cheerfully ignored by standard authors from Anglo-Saxon times onwards. An initial And is a useful aid to writers as the narrative continues."

from The New Fowler's Modern English Usage
edited by R.W. Burchfield. Clarendon Press: Oxford, England. 1996.
Used with the permission of Oxford University Press.

The same is true with the conjunction but. A sentence beginning with and or but will tend to draw attention to itself and its transitional function. Writers should examine such sentences with two questions in mind: (1) would the sentence and paragraph function just as well without the initial conjunction? (2) should the sentence in question be connected to the previous sentence? If the initial conjunction still seems appropriate, use it."

http://languagestyle.suite101.com/artic ... and_or_but

"In the 1700s it was perfectly acceptable to start sentences with a conjunction. And it is becoming increasingly prevalent again now. But why use a conjunction to start a sentence? There are many advantages:

It maintains an easy, conversational style.
It preserves a link between sentences, whilst still delivering in a short, punchy vein. (Great for on-line writing).
It reduces the need for long, wordy compound sentences.
It is not grammatically incorrect to start a sentence with 'or', 'and' or 'but', and never has been, although it used to be discouraged. Now, thanks to the advent of email, and the proliferation of blogs and other on-line resources, public acceptance is much more forthcoming."

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well well

Post by Allibert » Mon, 07 Sep 2009 12:05 pm

Congratulations, and i could find many articles on the internet that wiill tell you that it is grammatically incorrect to do it, even though lazier writers seem to be doing it more and more.

Actually I was merely using it, along with other examples, to point out that the OP had several grammatical faults which, if transferred to an application letter, might go some way to explaining why, along with his attitude, people aren't exactly rushing to employ him.

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. Listen or not it's hardly any skin of my nose. However, since the OP has insulted virtually every single poster who tried to offer any help, one can't help but wonder if an aqttitude adjustment would be beneficial for the job hunt.

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Post by ceej1979 » Tue, 08 Sep 2009 12:24 am

madura wrote:
littlegreenman wrote:Media however is tricky in general as most of the media is government controlled in Singapore and so any editorial jobs would go to party faithfuls only. The fact that you are not Singaporean doesn't help there.
Is that true? Honest question. There seems to be quite a number of expat editors on ST?
I'm inclined to agree. As far as I'm aware, there is a decent media market for expat publishers.

Although, I think the comment was based on a few crossed wires. I was, (and have always been) referring to working for multi national publishers with offices in the country - in which there are a few.

I think littlegreenman was referring to Singaporean publishers.

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Post by ceej1979 » Tue, 08 Sep 2009 12:32 am

littlegreenman wrote:
madura wrote:
littlegreenman wrote:Media however is tricky in general as most of the media is government controlled in Singapore and so any editorial jobs would go to party faithfuls only. The fact that you are not Singaporean doesn't help there.
Is that true? Honest question. There seems to be quite a number of expat editors on ST?
Expat Editors, yes. The national newspaper is one of the flagship brands like SIA and they need it to be top notch, so of course they had to buy foreign talent to get it up to scratch as the national newspaper is still a relatively young paper. We are talking about editors though, not editorial assistants like the OP where they will be happy to take their own people because they can fill the talent pool locally.

I have a friend who graduated with 1st class honours in journalism in Australia. He said it is almost impossible to get into "those we don't speak of" (he is a citizen) and some of his 1st class honours foreign friends :wink: tried and failed... reason was that they only looked for high level expats with many years of experience...

Edit: replaced name of that national newspaper with "those we don't speak of" (in true "the village" style). :D I was actually fine with the edit done by the mod but he did one thing to sincerely p1ss me off: you do not put pink text in my posts mate! It might say violet but turns out pink which is seriously uncool! :lol:

I actually agree. Although I should state that I've been working at the editorial assistant level for 3 years now, and that sort of level would be the lowest I would consider, if I was to move.

I was offered a Editor (publishing editor to be specific) promotion in the UK, with my present company - which I turned down, as I was off travelling. I then basically just came back to my old job when I got back.

In short, I'd probably be able to get an Editor job in the UK. I'm maybe at that sort of experience level. And it will probably be my next job here, in the next 6 months, if I hang around.

So I'm probably qualified for that sort of job. Sure, I lack experience of actually doing it (by name), but at the same time, experienced editors, don't apply for other editor jobs, from my experience. It's not an industry where people just move sideways.

Those type of jobs, again in my experience, will be grads going for second publishing jobs.

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Re: Good luck

Post by ceej1979 » Tue, 08 Sep 2009 12:42 am

Plavt wrote:
ceej1979 wrote: it is perfectly acceptable to start any sentence with either "And" or "But. .
There you go again posting what can justly be described as bullshit! . :roll:
Sorry

"The words 'and' and 'but' are joining words and should not be used to start a sentence, at least I remember something from my school days"

That's just a publishing factoid, that is mistakenly taught at high school level. Starting a sentence with either "and" or "but" does not break any grammatical rules, and that form is used in professional publishing, on a daily basis.

In fact, we are encouraged to do it.

Why do people think it's wrong to start a sentence with "and"? It's a schooling thing. Teachers tell you not to do it, to ensure pupils write varied sentences. And (see what I've done there) to ensure that students don't get into a habit of writing repetitive work.

I can assure you that it's perfectly acceptable. In fact, it's one of the first things they teach you when you start any editorial career.

From a work document:

""There is a persistent belief that it is improper to begin a sentence with And, but this prohibition has been cheerfully ignored by standard authors from Anglo-Saxon times onwards. An initial And is a useful aid to writers as the narrative continues.""

The Lynch guide to grammar and style:

""Contrary to what your high school English teacher told you, there's no reason not to begin a sentence with but or and; in fact, these words often make a sentence more forceful and graceful. They are almost always better than beginning with however or additionally. Beginning with but or and does make your writing less formal; — but worse things could happen to most writing than becoming less formal.""

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Re: Good luck

Post by ceej1979 » Tue, 08 Sep 2009 12:57 am

Allibert wrote:
ceej1979 wrote:
Allibert wrote:I don't want to dent your hopes and wish you the best of luck in your search but in your position, if I were stating that my written English is very good, I'd make sure I avoid the following mistakes:

A emigrating Brit - how about "an"
re-location - it's relocation
Reading Singaporean Newspapers - capital N?
high level - high-level?
sentences don't start with And or But,
my current company - who's blessing - it's whose

and there are several other mistakes

To be honest, your use of commas is pretty awful, too.

Anyway, good luck to you. I know a lot of people (myself included), like to come to Asia to avoid bad weather, long dark cold winters and to enjoy good food and experience a new environment. It is, all things considered, a very nice place to be.

Good luck with you job search but please do a grammar/spelling check before you send your applications out to prospective employers. Seriously, if I were an employer and you claimed your written English to be "high level", you wouldn't have got a reply from me either.

I don't want to sound like a pedantic ass but first impressions really do count.

Alan


You obviously don;t understand the meaning of ignorance either. You are the one looking for a job and if you cannot demonstrate that you can spell simple words you probably won't even get an interview, which from your comments seem to be the case


Alan, quit playing the prima donna. When a person goes onto a forum, dissecting another users grammar, and leaving smart arsed comments on it, they are not trying to help.

Although I may not put too much thought into these sort of blurbs ( I wasn't expecting anyone to read into it that much, I can assure you that I can spell, and have written for a number of years, at a professional level.


Again, you can't even spell common sense, but I'm guessing this was hastily written too. That is just what publishing editors are looking for. They will love you here. by the way, I am not trying to humiliate anyone here, just pointing out that the qualities needed for the kind of work you're applying for seem to be sadly lacking.

Alan, again, I'm not going to keep repeating myself. There is, in my case, and with most people, a huge amount of difference between carefully thought out writing, and what I tap out on here, when I have a spare 2 minutes.

I make maybe 2-3 grammatical mistakes a year, in my current job. I probably make 500, writing e-mails to friends. As I simply don't care what they think on the subject. The same rule applies here.

I'm a published web journalist. I've had articles feartured on CBSNews.com/ Foxnews.cin in the states. I'm perfectly happy with my ability to write.


"Obviously, you seem to have issues with anyone who is trying to give you any useful advice. In addition, with your attitude and great English ability, you don't seem to be having one iota of success in locating a job here. I would suggest you have several possibilities.

1. Continue being a royal prat and be turned down again and again
2. If they're so keen on having you in USA, go there
3. Stop being a prat and try to be a bit more humble. Your attitude will get you absolutely nowhere.
4. If you really think you're that good, come here and try and survive on a freelance basis.
5. Get your family to tie you over until you can prove your worth to them in whatever capacity

Seriously, though, I think you have a severe attitude problem. Nobody owes you anything and you are probably not God's gift to journalism. None of us actually care whether you get a job here. We're just offering advice so that you may have a slight chance. If you don't want to take the advice, that is your prerogative.[/color]
"



Alan, if you're honestly trying to suggest to me that your message was honest advice, and not just an attempt to wind me up, then I really don't believe you.

I've noticed many users simply just come on here, trying to hook people into responding, with annoying, patronising comments.

I'd suggest that making fun of someone's grammar, on a forum post, is probably that.

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Re: Good luck

Post by ceej1979 » Tue, 08 Sep 2009 1:07 am

Allibert wrote:
ceej1979 wrote:
Allibert wrote:I don't want to dent your hopes and wish you the best of luck in your search but in your position, if I were stating that my written English is very good, I'd make sure I avoid the following mistakes:

A emigrating Brit - how about "an"
re-location - it's relocation
Reading Singaporean Newspapers - capital N?
high level - high-level?
sentences don't start with And or But,
my current company - who's blessing - it's whose

and there are several other mistakes

To be honest, your use of commas is pretty awful, too.

Anyway, good luck to you. I know a lot of people (myself included), like to come to Asia to avoid bad weather, long dark cold winters and to enjoy good food and experience a new environment. It is, all things considered, a very nice place to be.

Good luck with you job search but please do a grammar/spelling check before you send your applications out to prospective employers. Seriously, if I were an employer and you claimed your written English to be "high level", you wouldn't have got a reply from me either.

I don't want to sound like a pedantic ass but first impressions really do count.

Alan

Hi Alan

1: Seriously, it's the height of ignorance to go through people's hastily written doodles, trying to pick them up on grammar. I assure you, my boss (one of the top publishers in the country) makes mistakes all the time. I'm not egotistical enough to send her pointers on this, as I realise that there is a huge difference between professional writing, and an
e-mail.

You obviously don;t understand the meaning of ignorance either. You are the one looking for a job and if you cannot demonstrate that you can spell simple words you probably won't even get an interview, which from your comments seem to be the case


2: If ego is going to override commen-sense, and you do feel you have to come on here, simply trying to humiliate someone, I suggest you at least make sure you know what you are talking about.

Again, you can't even spell common sense, but I'm guessing this was hastily written too. That is just what publishing editors are looking for. They will love you here. by the way, I am not trying to humiliate anyone here, just pointing out that the qualities needed for the kind of work you're applying for seem to be sadly lacking.

Not to go into too much detail, but it is perfectly acceptable to start any sentence with either "And" or "But. The point you're making is a grammar factoid. The type of factoid twittering, unqualified twerps use all the time, to make a 100 word statement, somehow last 500.

Wrong again

Again, I really don't care what you make of a hastily written note to be honest. And really don't see the point in wasting people's time on here, with such egotistical garbage.
I wouldn't go so far as to call you egotistical garbage, but you're pretty close - offensive fits the bill nicely I think.

To be honest, I don't care what you think either. Obviously your application letters were hastily written to or you may not be quite what Singapore publishing houses are looking for. If you don't accept people's advice and think that you're going to get any kind of job here in Singapore with your attitude, I would suggest you are very sadly mistaken.

Obviously, you seem to have issues with anyone who is trying to give you any useful advice. In addition, with your attitude and great English ability, you don't seem to be having one iota of success in locating a job here. I would suggest you have several possibilities.

1. Continue being a royal prat and be turned down again and again
2. If they're so keen on having you in USA, go there
3. Stop being a prat and try to be a bit more humble. Your attitude will get you absolutely nowhere.
4. If you really think you're that good, come here and try and survive on a freelance basis.
5. Get your family to tie you over until you can prove your worth to them in whatever capacity

Seriously, though, I think you have a severe attitude problem. Nobody owes you anything and you are probably not God's gift to journalism. None of us actually care whether you get a job here. We're just offering advice so that you may have a slight chance. If you don't want to take the advice, that is your prerogative.

Alan, I actually find it pretty sad, that users on here simply use this forum to try and wind people up.

I can assure you that this entire relocation thing is not only very stressfull, but a potential life changing experience for a lot of people.

So I don't understand how you think the tone of your messages is:

a: helpful
b: acceptable in your mind

Telling people facts on the job market is helpful. Offering advice on the job market is acceptable.

Sending someone a list of grammatical errors in a forum post, and then telling them that they won't get a job, as their English is rubbish - I'd suggest to you that that's just being a bit of a d*ck. I'd maybe expect it from my 16 year old brother..............

From your reaction, you're probably not used to people biting back. I can assure you, I'm well versed in what to expect from the expat population in Singapore, and from this web site in particular.

A sad indicment I would say on both.

So in short, I'm more than happy to respond to mindless, annoying responses with mindless annoying responses of my own

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Re: well well

Post by ceej1979 » Tue, 08 Sep 2009 1:15 am

Allibert wrote:Congratulations, and i could find many articles on the internet that wiill tell you that it is grammatically incorrect to do it, even though lazier writers seem to be doing it more and more.

Actually I was merely using it, along with other examples, to point out that the OP had several grammatical faults which, if transferred to an application letter, might go some way to explaining why, along with his attitude, people aren't exactly rushing to employ him.

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. Listen or not it's hardly any skin of my nose. However, since the OP has insulted virtually every single poster who tried to offer any help, one can't help but wonder if an aqttitude adjustment would be beneficial for the job hunt.
You won't find any distinguished articles on it, as it's not grammatically incorrect to start a sentence with "And", "But", "Or"..........

It's a publishing factoid. Something they tell you at high school. They don't tell you this as it's grammatically incorrect. They tell you it to basically force students to show variation in sentences.

In truth, it's sometimes seen as lazy to start a sentence with "And" or something like that. It's very easy. And in education, they sometimes feel they should try and stop students using the "easy way out".

However, in professional publishing, where titles work under strict word counts, it's widely used for that very reason.

If you ever find yourself working on editorial of company mailings (as in letters from banks, gas suppliers sent nationwide) I can assure you the practice is widely uncouraged.

Again, if you dislike receiving annoying, patronising messages on grammar, I suggest you don't send people annoying patronising messages on grammar

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Re: Good luck

Post by Plavt » Tue, 08 Sep 2009 2:06 am

ceej1979 wrote:
That's just a publishing factoid, that is mistakenly taught at high school level. Starting a sentence with either "and" or "but" does not break any grammatical rules, and that form is used in professional publishing, on a daily basis.

In fact, we are encouraged to do it.

Why do people think it's wrong to start a sentence with "and"? It's a schooling thing. Teachers tell you not to do it, to ensure pupils write varied sentences.
Well, well well now you think you are superior to teachers who have recognized qualifications and know their grammar which you clearly do not! Grammar is not a just a 'school thing', I only have to walk as far a the local library or bookshop to find the any amount of the most rudimentary guides, all of which contradict the nonsense you have posted here. Quite frankly your persistent rants are becoming very tiresome, you ask for advice and rebuff everyone who offers it. Since you cleary think yourself so superior and a cut above everybody then why don't you simply shut up and go somewhere else!? Talk about a waste of space! :roll: :x

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Re: Good luck

Post by Jeppo » Tue, 08 Sep 2009 10:57 am

Plavt wrote: Well, well well now you think you are superior to teachers who have recognized qualifications and know their grammar which you clearly do not!
You mean like my Masters of Linguistics? Maybe you should read some Cambridge material http://www.cambridge.org/uk/linguistics/peters/ that also contradicts you. Or isn't Cambridge recognised as a legitimate eduactional source anymore?

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Re: Good luck

Post by Plavt » Tue, 08 Sep 2009 1:32 pm

Jeppo wrote:
You mean like my Masters of Linguistics? Maybe you should read some Cambridge material http://www.cambridge.org/uk/linguistics/peters/ that also contradicts you. Or isn't Cambridge recognised as a legitimate eduactional source anymore?
Don't be so ridiculous you know perfectly well what I meant when I made the statement above but then of course there's always some half-wit who has to bring some controversy to a simple issue.

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Re: Good luck

Post by Jeppo » Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:33 am

Plavt wrote:
Jeppo wrote:
You mean like my Masters of Linguistics? Maybe you should read some Cambridge material http://www.cambridge.org/uk/linguistics/peters/ that also contradicts you. Or isn't Cambridge recognised as a legitimate eduactional source anymore?
Don't be so ridiculous you know perfectly well what I meant when I made the statement above but then of course there's always some half-wit who has to bring some controversy to a simple issue.
Calling people half-wits when you can't use logic or facts to back up your statements? Well, I guess we can't expect more from someone so poorly educated they can't even get a job in Singapore.

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Post by Addadude » Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:34 am

Ahem, getting back to ceej1979's original questions...

Could I get publishing job in Singapore very easily?

Yes and no. You can certainly get freelance writing or even editorial assignments very easily. Full time work is considerably harder to find.

Secondly, I’m unsure about the salary for this sort of sector in Singapore. Not that I’m that money orientated (it’s hopeless pay in the UK – even the top publishing jobs).

Rest assured, typically publishing salaries in Singapore are every bit as bad as the UK - if not in fact worse. This may cause you problems in trying to get an EP. I'm really not hopeful about you qualifying for a 'S' pass - it's pretty rare for Westerners to be working here on one of those.

Thirdly, I have no idea where to start looking for jobs. I was thinking of just applying via the web...

It's unlikely that any employer in publishing here will either have or take the time to chat to you about your expat status or otherwise.

Fourthly, I can’t move to Singapore until at least January 2009 (have a succession of family weddings to attend between now and then). Would I be able to apply for jobs now, and start in January?

You could apply - but you'd be wasting your time. You need to be here to have any hope of being seriously considered.

Finally! My main issue. Is it possible to get a job in Singapore, without having face to face interviews with the company first? As in, could I potentially secure a job via a telephone interview, and then just go over?

In a word, nope.

Lastly, please don't blast the forum you are posting questions on...

"I can assure you, I'm well versed in what to expect from the expat population in Singapore, and from this web site in particular."

It's rude and it makes those of us who could be bothered to offer constructive advice think twice before doing so. By all means address the poster you feel is 'biting you', but sweeping generalisations like this will make you no friends.

And, as an aside to Plavt and Allibert: it is indeed permissible to begin sentences with "and" and "but".
"Both politicians and nappies need to be changed regularly, and for the same reasons."

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