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Ex Cadet Pilot

Join in the discussion about employment, interview as a cabin crew, pilot in major airlines.
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Strong Eagle
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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 04 Sep 2009 1:54 pm

Plavt wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote: I know exactly what I am talking about. And I know that someone who fails to pass a competency test really ought to think about another career.


So when you fail at something you should give up the ghost? A sad place the world would be if we all did that! I take it you did not read or simply ignored the comment earlier by jencrs who is a pilot. I must say I find your statement pretty 'rich' considering your own background posted on your own website for the world to see. :roll:


I'm not saying that at all, Plavt. But the ab-initia program is an intense one, where a person can end up in the right hand seat with as little as 350 hours total time. One school graduates people with 200 hours actual time and several hundred more simulator time. In the US you might still have to accumulate hours to around the 1000 level due to the number of available pilots.

So, the catch is this. This is an intensive training program, focused from day 1 on that right hand seat job. You have to have the aptitude and skills to make it a go, and if you don't pass a competency check it really does say something about your capabilities.

Even sierra2469alpha said, "a fail in ab-initio, even though you now have a PPL, isn't going to rate with any airline as tech crew". So, the only options I would see would be for the OP to do it the more traditional way... build hours as a CFI, crop duster, bush pilot... whatever... to demonstrate competency and build experience hours... then _maybe_ he could look at applying for a job with a regional.

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Postby Plavt » Fri, 04 Sep 2009 3:01 pm

There is no doubt the ab-initia is an intensive one, such programs are the much the same in the UK. However, where I disagree to a large extent is your statement it really does say something about your competencies.
We have all tried and failed at something in our lives and some have returned to try again sometimes successfully sometimes not. A former fellow pupil at school made four attempts at the aptitude test to train as pilot with the RAF before being accetped. He did eventually become a pilot. This was the point jencrs was putting across.

However, the way I see it is that is not the crux of the problem with respect to shivas; the real problem is that of competition, time and expense in becoming a pilot by another route. I agree with both you and sierra that having a PPL will have little bearing on becoming a professional pilot, since the requirements both physically and from educational perspective simply don't compare.

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Postby jencrs » Fri, 04 Sep 2009 7:25 pm

Plavt wrote:Jencrs is not interested in the 'problems' we have with some posters he merely made a comment. Saying somebody is 'just a tech crew' came across as insulting.
Exactly!

Plavt wrote:We have all tried and failed at something in our lives and some have returned to try again sometimes successfully sometimes not.
Yup.

Strong Eagle places the failure of a competency check squarely on the trainee's shoulders. It's not that simple. A competency check is not a sit-down multiple choice exam where one's either right or wrong. It's a flight test where there can be many many variables affecting one's results. One example, an instructor who doesn't like your face, or just had a fight with the missus. I've seen this happen many times during the course of my training. Don't forget, at shivas' stage, he's just a beginner in the cockpit with only about 10 hrs of experience, so it's easy to get overwhelmed. So it's possible for a person to fail at a check at this early stage, with little to do with his potential as a pilot.

I'm not saying shivas is an ace, or that he will be able to make it as a pilot, I'm just saying don't be so quick to write someone off.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 04 Sep 2009 7:52 pm

jencrs wrote:Strong Eagle places the failure of a competency check squarely on the trainee's shoulders. It's not that simple. A competency check is not a sit-down multiple choice exam where one's either right or wrong. It's a flight test where there can be many many variables affecting one's results. One example, an instructor who doesn't like your face, or just had a fight with the missus. I've seen this happen many times during the course of my training. Don't forget, at shivas' stage, he's just a beginner in the cockpit with only about 10 hrs of experience, so it's easy to get overwhelmed. So it's possible for a person to fail at a check at this early stage, with little to do with his potential as a pilot.

I'm not saying shivas is an ace, or that he will be able to make it as a pilot, I'm just saying don't be so quick to write someone off.


OK, I grant you all of that and agree. I have had some very shitty check ride instructors when I wanted to rent an airplane in various cities. Some good, some convinced I was going to steal the plane if they rented it to me.

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Postby jencrs » Fri, 04 Sep 2009 8:41 pm

aloyscious wrote:Shivas, Write to me...I can get you into Air Asia if you want..cheers!
As a pilot? That will be quite a feat, since I'm not aware of any ab-initio programme in Airasia, and they are not going to put a PPL holder into an A320 conversion. The best that they can do probably is to extend a tentative offer provided you pay for your own CPL. But why would they at a time where there are so many pilots looking for jobs?

So let's not raise a person's hopes unnecessarily with such an absolute statement.

However, if you really know how it can be achieved, please don't be selfish and share it for other aspiring pilots here. I hope you will not say something like "I can't tell but I just know a friend's father's uncle's nephew's godson who can get you in, and I don't care if you don't believe it.", and i hope you will not keep silent.

I will give you the benefit of doubt and await your reply, even if it's in a private msg.

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ex cadet pilot..

Postby shivas77 » Sat, 05 Sep 2009 8:33 pm

Hey Guys, thanks for your brutally honest replies and your earnest willingness to help; most of you anyways...

The week before I did the C-check I was, in the words of my previous Fliight instructor, one of the best in the cohort..
Going from there the following week I got choppped at the hands of a different Flight Instructor.. not wish to go into 'what ifs',
but I really feel I was unfairly treated.
I have a good career now, and I am 31, but I hate my deskbound job, so I would like to just consider what are my other options, and the length of time it would take..

I have a newborn kid, to further add to my list of obstacles..

I recently read about the MPL program, multi crew pilots license, is that any good? Upon reading it it seemed like a godsent 2nd Chance..
or even the STATA below?
http://www.stata.com.sg/courses.htm

My question: I jus wanna know if anybody took the road less travelled, other than AB-Initio programs, and started out from scratch, would really like to hear your experiences/ ordeals..

Thanks for all your posts, and sorry for my post starting some bush fires...
Answerable Questions & Questionablke Answers..

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ex cadet pilot

Postby shivas77 » Sat, 05 Sep 2009 8:41 pm

Aside, to Aloysious,

sorry I have no means of PM-ing you as I haven't contributed the stipulated number of posts i guess..:<
Answerable Questions & Questionablke Answers..

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Re: ex cadet pilot..

Postby Plavt » Sun, 06 Sep 2009 2:12 am

shivas77 wrote:I recently read about the MPL program, multi crew pilots license, is that any good? Upon reading it it seemed like a godsent 2nd Chance..
or even the STATA below?
http://www.stata.com.sg/courses.htm

My question: I jus wanna know if anybody took the road less travelled, other than AB-Initio programs, and started out from scratch, would really like to hear your experiences/ ordeals..

Thanks for all your posts, and sorry for my post starting some bush fires...


No need to apologize the ding-dong above a certain person just likes to 'bear his fangs' now and again. :lol:

I will tread with caution here since I live in a different part of the world but what they say on the STATA site is the sort of thing that is said on almost all private institutions websites and in their literature. Nobody looking for business is going to paint a bad picture of themselves.

Basically I think you will find pursuing your goal privately will be very expensive, time consuming and will not promise you anything unless maybe you get to instructor level. Hopefully jencrs will return to shed more light on the issue.
Last edited by Plavt on Mon, 07 Sep 2009 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby jin75 » Sun, 06 Sep 2009 8:18 pm

shivas77

Re: STATA - I suggest you drop by in person and speak to them about their programmes and tie-ins.

However, as Plavt rightly pointed out, pursuing flying as a career privately is an expensive venture, particularly in Singapore with our limited GA scene. Now, we've heard about the coming aviation boom (Open Skies, aerospace hub) but when and whether it will take off is anyone's guess.

So, do your homework, weigh your options and make your choice. Good luck.

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Postby jin75 » Sun, 06 Sep 2009 8:21 pm

oh yes,

shivas77, if you have not visited www.pprune.org, do so. There are more than enough accounts, some good, some not so good, of self-sponsored candidates.

Do take what you read with some measure though, as aviation scene in the EU, US and Asia differs.

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Re: ex cadet pilot..

Postby jencrs » Mon, 14 Sep 2009 2:53 am

Plavt wrote:Hopefully jencrs will return to shed more light on the issue.
Sure Plavt, I think I'll talk to shivas via PM.

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Re: Ex Cadet Pilot

Postby Paige » Mon, 28 Sep 2009 1:20 am

shivas77 wrote:Hi All,
I have been following your threads religiously for the past few months, and I must say there is a wealth of info here for anyone interested in an airline career, so I felt it would be befitting to join you guys and seek some serious advise about my dilemma..

I was recruited under the Cadet Pilots Ab-initio program in 2006 and failed my competency check, thus getting chopped off from the program in the SFC phase itself before Jandakot.
Its been 3 years now, but somehow I still feel that I would like to pursue a career in flying, either through self sponsoring or other ab-initio programs.

At the time of my cadet pilot training, I did not have a PPL. Now I have a valid PPL and so feel that I was prematurely kicked out during the single prop flying phase..

Can any Kind Souls out there PLEEASE advise what options I have, now that SIA is TOTALLY NOT AN OPTION FOR ME! THANKS!


Hi Shivas77,

I would like to like you know that currently Cathay Pacific Airways is recruiting non hong konger.
You can take a look @ http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INT ... quirements

Good Luck!

Cheers! Paige :wink:

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Re: Ex Cadet Pilot

Postby Plavt » Mon, 28 Sep 2009 2:55 am

Paige wrote:Hi Shivas77,

I would like to like you know that currently Cathay Pacific Airways is recruiting non hong konger.
You can take a look @ http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INT ... quirements



Paige,
While your post is well intentioned it is unlikely to help as Cathay Pacific will know he has failed for SIA which will in all probability scupper any chance of him being accepted. However, jencrs is in communication so hopefully Shivas will find an 'avenue' that way. :-|
Last edited by Plavt on Mon, 07 Dec 2009 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sierra2469alpha » Mon, 07 Dec 2009 5:38 pm

Jencrs - sorry been O/s. Had a chat with some techcrew I ran into at FRA and Vietnam are taking F/O direct entry and Command (direct into F/O) but only if you are B777 rated already. Not sure if that is of interest to you.

How is Shivas going?

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Re: Ex Cadet Pilot

Postby hiccup » Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:57 am

Paige wrote:I would like to like you know that currently Cathay Pacific Airways is recruiting non hong konger.
You can take a look @ http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INT ... quirements

The recruitment just closed recently.

CX will not hire anybody. The Cathay Pacific are racist. They prefer the white than their own Hong Kees.
Professionalism means consistency of quality. Frank Tyger


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