Credit card fraud

[jpatokal]

But that's it -- I even can't find an option to buy insurance for the rest of your credit limit, the "Lifestyle Protection Plan" only covers stuff like armed robbery.

Gave DBS a call this morning and asked about this, which -- as usual -- was like pulling teeth with pliers. But it was (almost?) worth it for this conversation after two calls, a fax, and an eternity on hold:

- I'm sorry Sir, but DBS does not currently offer any insurance like that.
- So you do not offer cover beyond $1000, and you don't know anybody who does?
- Yes.
- So DBS basically thinks that its customers can go screw themselves?
- <giggle> Correct.

So, there you go, straight from the horse's mouth!

[QRM]

I just had an email circular this morning from HSBC offering the very same.

For the first $5000 before reporting the loss of the card, at "as little as S$0.15 a day" and you can even cover cards issued by other banks but only up $300.

Strange, a quote from HSBC web site:

"Security Assurance

If, in the unlikely event, unauthorised transactions have been conducted through your account through no fraud, fault or negligence on your part, we will see that you are covered for your direct loss up to the full amount of the unauthorized transaction."

Which is not what the HSBC phone banker told me. I think this need a formal letter from HSBC to clarify to the situation.

[dbenne22]

Would love to hear the outcome of that !

[ScoobyDoes]

Strange, a quote from HSBC web site:

"Security Assurance

If, in the unlikely event, unauthorised transactions have been conducted through your account through no fraud, fault or negligence on your part, we will see that you are covered for your direct loss up to the full amount of the unauthorized transaction."

Which is not what the HSBC phone banker told me. I think this need a formal letter from HSBC to clarify to the situation.

Would that be for a bank account, rather than credit card? Meaning you are covered if somebody breaks into your online account or your ATM pin etc.?

[Nath21]

the worst part i guess is if you get your card skimmed therefore you have not lost it and dont report it but are liable for any charges put on it. Very scary.

[cbavasi]

So I just used our Singapore HSBC card last night on Expedia and no red flags came up. The bank called my husband this morning to verify the charge. In the meantime I tried to use the card this morning and it was denied. They put a stop on the card following my purchase on Expedia. This was done without our asking - so shows they are pretty good about questioning unusual charges.

[Nath21]

Why would an expedia charge be abnormal. Abnormal usually means excessive like a one off >$3k purchase or you getting charges in a totally different country. Was it a large amount? or have they targeted expedia as the thief's travel agent of choice?

[QRM]

GOOD NEWS..

Good to see my truck loads of Iraqi gold bullion still carries some weight. Having written to express my concerns, and suggest HSBC change the terms etc. they just wrote back saying they will !

Heres a copy of their reply.

Mr XXX,

My apologies for the late reply.

I have already sent your feedback on Monday pertaining to this issue. Today, I have received a good news from the department concern. Please find the revision to credit card holder liability below:

Please be informed that the banks will be adopting a new set of guidelines with regards to the liabilities of credit cardholders for fraudulent/unauthorised transactions on their credit cards. ABS will be issuing a media statement on this in due time. The new guidelines will be incorporated into the banks' credit cards terms and conditions and will be effective from 1 November 09 onwards.

With effect from 1 Nov 09, your liability prior to card loss reporting will be capped at S$100 provided that you have not acted fraudulently, negligently or failed to report the card loss as soon as reasonably practicable. For more details, please log on to www.hsbc.com.sg.

"Credit Card Liability (Effective from 1 November 09)
Prior to notification of your credit card loss to us, the cap for card
liability due to unauthorised charges is S$100 maximum provided that you
have not acted fraudulently, with gross negligence or failed to inform
us as soon as reasonably practicable after knowing that your credit card
has been lost or stolen. Interest charges and late fees will not be
levied during the period of investigation to determine responsibility
and liability of the unauthorised charges.
You will not be liable for any unauthorised charges after we receive
notice of loss or theft of credit card, or disclosure of your card
particulars.
You are liable for 100% of unauthorised charges or amounts up to your
credit card limit whichever is lower if you have acted fraudulently or
with gross negligence. Interest charges and late fees will not be levied
on the unauthorized charges unless you have acted fraudulently, with
gross negligence or failed to report the card loss as soon as reasonably
practicable.
In the event that you acted with gross negligence, we reserve the right
to terminate the credit card facilities extended to you as well as
pursue legal action to recover all outstanding amounts under the credit
card account.
You are not liable for any unauthorised charges in situations whereby
the physical credit card was not stolen but the credit card details were
used for unauthorised transactions provided you have not acted
fraudulently or with gross negligence.
You are not liable for unauthorised PIN activated transactions provided
you have not acted fraudulently or with gross negligence.

Have a good week ahead!


Regards,

[Strong Eagle]

GOOD NEWS..

Wow, QRM! That is indeed a major change. Some serious heavy lifting.

HSBC only, or I am correctly reading that a new policy is to be put in place for Singapore banks?

[stiwi]

So HSBC offers card protection program of up to 5000$ before reporting. The program costs 55$ / year.

Does any bank in Singapore offer higher protection insurance on credit cards?

What also surprise me is that every bank is pushing credit cards towards their customers, seems that Visa (but not electron) debit cards are not so popular.

[durain]

but from now till 1st of nov 2009, lock up your credit card!!!

[stiwi]

but from now till 1st of nov 2009, lock up your credit card!!!

Please be more specific in your responses.

Are you referring to this?
"With effect from 1 Nov 09, your liability prior to card loss reporting will be capped at S$100 provided that you have not acted fraudulently, negligently or failed to report the card loss as soon as reasonably practicable. For more details, please log on to www.hsbc.com.sg. "

Does it mean the bank can charge you maximum of $100 before reporting that cc was stolen?

[sundaymorningstaple]

You do realize that " " are quotation marks. This means the response is as quoted by the bank to him. There he is being as specific as the bank is without presuming to second guess the actual meaning of said quotation. I read it as yes, you will be liable for the first $100 of unauthorized charges. Which is still a lot better than it was before. "your liability prior to card loss reporting will be capped at S$100". I am assuming "your" refers to the Card holder and "your liability" means who will be liable and for how much. ......

You aren't, by chance, related to sierra2469alpha are you?

[stiwi]

I am not related to him / her.
Thanks for making it clear. That sounds interesting. Though I was surprised that till now the conditions were defending thiefs. That is not the case in EU for instance since few years already.

But better late than never. Is it a goverment regulation on all banks in Singapore?

[sundaymorningstaple]

We hear you loud and clear, but unfortunately, even western companies when they get to Asia, tend to forget the way they operated in their home countries.