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Employment Pass Issues. Please advice

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 20 Aug 2009 3:38 pm

work411,

Yep. See what I mean about HR departments? Never take them for granted that they know what they are doing. Most have absolutely no real training for the jobs that they do. And, if that's not enough, people here are always trying shortcuts and when they do, sometimes they stuff up somebody's life in the process.

Yes, a trip down to MOM sounds like it's in order. At least you have found out partially what the problem may be. Additionally, as I said, the job description that the HR writes on the application is normally what will sink a position faster than anything. HR people are supposed to be creative but the majority of the local ones are sorely lacking if one were to ask me.....

I went through 4 in 1.5 years trying to find a good one. I've got one now but while she is extremely accurate and efficient, the staff hates her (another quirky trait with female HR types - invariably they end up being known as "dragon ladies". But she makes my life easier! :D

At least you are making headway and I have a good feeling it will all get resolved satisfactorily soon enough.

sms

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Postby work411 » Thu, 20 Aug 2009 4:23 pm

Hey SMS,

Good to hear from you!

Actually as per your advice, when I asked HR about the job description, she said that "in the new forms MOM does not ask for a job description"??! So since I dont know the all the regulations, I can't say.

Moreover, they did not want to share the letter justifying why they needed a non-local for this position, saying something like, all that has already been sent.

Now of course HR is all sensitive too and I have to be careful, since they feel the blame is landing on them, while i'm trying to just understand what went on...This reason still doesnt answer, as to why MOM would take so long in giving a decision, but only one way to find out..
Will keep you guys posted.

I also wish all the luck to the other 2 members (CHO555 & CANDK) going through similar process.

:)



sundaymorningstaple wrote:work411,

Yep. See what I mean about HR departments? Never take them for granted that they know what they are doing. Most have absolutely no real training for the jobs that they do. And, if that's not enough, people here are always trying shortcuts and when they do, sometimes they stuff up somebody's life in the process.

Yes, a trip down to MOM sounds like it's in order. At least you have found out partially what the problem may be. Additionally, as I said, the job description that the HR writes on the application is normally what will sink a position faster than anything. HR people are supposed to be creative but the majority of the local ones are sorely lacking if one were to ask me.....

I went through 4 in 1.5 years trying to find a good one. I've got one now but while she is extremely accurate and efficient, the staff hates her (another quirky trait with female HR types - invariably they end up being known as "dragon ladies". But she makes my life easier! :D

At least you are making headway and I have a good feeling it will all get resolved satisfactorily soon enough.

sms
c

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 20 Aug 2009 5:00 pm

Actually, your HR got that part right. The job description has been removed (that what happens when one finally gets a good HR exec! The forms changed somewhat but she rarely has a problem and she usually only brings me the last page. (the one where I've got to sign it!). I just went online to check. So, we are back to the possibility of two problems. One was the error showing you as having no experience (would have bounced it for sure) and the other is still the title change and in conjunction with that, what ever the vetting agency found out which you are not privy to, nor will be. However, if that was sorted out as it would seem, then the "lack of experience" would probably be the sticking point and again, a trip to MOM and an interview with an officer might do the trick. Be sure, when you go, go loaded for bear, as we say at home. In other words, be sure to have all your documents/testimonials, references, degree certs and what-have-you at your disposal so that whatever you are asked for you have the answer and the document to back it up.

sms
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Fri, 21 Aug 2009 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby cho555 » Thu, 20 Aug 2009 6:21 pm

Do you think i should wait until the appeal process done or can i just go and meet the officer this week? well maybe i seems like pushing things in a rush but i dont want to do nothing in this waiting period. At least i want to know the reason straight from the MOM..and if it still not working (read:rejected again) it's fine for me. I just dont wanna go home without trying my best.:)

Ow and my company said, they have been doing a few application S pass for a few workers also been rejected by MOM. The company over quote maybe?

My friend got the pass this week although she hav no xperience, lucky?? hehe..

Thanks work411!, i wiss u luck too :)

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 20 Aug 2009 8:43 pm

cho555,

The S Pass Quota situation may well be what has happened there. It was changed last month and it's getting harder and harder to get them approved. My company is maxed out on our quota's and we have a hard time keeping locals on the job which plays the devil when it come time for renewing an S pass. We lose a number ever couple of months due to the 3 month running average that the MOM uses for determining your quotas. It's rough to say the least.

If they lost several recently I would hazard a guess that that's what has happened. S and WP are the only Passes that are subject to quota restrictions.

I would wait until the appeal is over. However, I know some have had success but there is always the chance of "agitating' them and making it worse. However, if your appeal was made "without submitting any new evidence or documentation to strengthing your case" you appeal will die on the vine. You need to be able to find a error in the application (as is the case with work411) or be able to add spice to the mix.

sms

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Postby littlegreenman » Fri, 21 Aug 2009 1:24 am

work411 wrote:...
HR provided me with a copy of the online application they filled and right away I saw this one thing which maybe an issue.

In there, my total number of past work exp is listed as 10years, but in the section below where it says ," total number of work exp relevant to the position listed it says" "O" :? !! (which should have been 10!)
...


There is your problem if you ask me. MOM could argue if she does not have any work experience relevant to the job, there are plenty of locals who are well qualified but have 0 work experience relevant to the job as well. This means your application for an EP is not really justifiable (at least from my point of view).

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Unbelievable !!!!!

Postby work411 » Fri, 21 Aug 2009 5:32 pm

Okay guys I just came back from MOM and here is my surreal experience.

I met with an officer and gave her my details. She pulled up my application/history AND 15 minutes later, I walk out the office after she tells me that she has now approved my application on the spot!!!! WHA??!! :o

I mean here I was ready to jot down notes on what needs to go down in case of an appeal, what went wrong etc...and this was the absolute last outcome i expected!!

Okay, so apparently, the reason my application was denied the first time was b/c of the involvement of MOH ( Ministry of Health)- My job title was not matching what was in their data base. The second rejection was b/c MOH still had not been notified of this title change- The officer today did that during our meeting and voila!

So now few things-

First of, THANKS THANKS THANKS a million SMS for your VALUABLE feedback. It is this post which got me thinking, otherwise it was pretty much a closed case esp since my HR also said that I would not be seen by MOM officers, so its a waste of time!

Also CANDK- Thanks A million also for sharing your exp and encouraging me to go to the MOM office- I am REALLY hoping that your issue is also resolved in the same manner!

Second- People please dont lose heart! Definitely look into matters yrself and take actions, dont rely only on external sources, since this really involves you!

Third- The very best of luck to everyone who is still facing this process!!

SMS- Consider yourself VIRTUALLY HUGGED!!!! :)

Thanks again everyone- Little greenman for your BIG support :D & Cho555 for your feedback-

This forum can be a lifesaver!![/u]

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 21 Aug 2009 6:09 pm

Thanks. It nice to be appreciated occasionally. Makes this hobby all the more worthwhile when things turn out right. :)

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Postby Saint » Fri, 21 Aug 2009 6:25 pm

Nice thread with a great ending, was going to comment but when you've got the guru, SMS, on the case there's not a lot more I can add!

Just in case you ever get to meet SMS, here's a pic of him at work!

Image

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Postby work411 » Fri, 21 Aug 2009 6:57 pm

hahahah!!

And I suppose this would be you at work "Saint" ;)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_WnoEwVVfWTM/S ... /Devil.gif

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 21 Aug 2009 8:24 pm

work411 you hit the nail on the head re: saint!

Saint, I've only got one thing to say.......

:tongue: :wink:

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Postby work411 » Fri, 21 Aug 2009 8:36 pm

:D ..Good fun guys!

Btw SMS one more greedy query if I may. Does the fact that my title was slightly altered to get the EP approved will HR now align it with the same title at work, or can I keep the title which is on my contract? Want to get some facts in before starting next week.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 21 Aug 2009 9:36 pm

Contract can have what ever on it. It's just that MOM has pre-inserted 'codes' for job titles and whenever someone gets creative it caused a bounce. They have a list of "suitable" occupations to insert for most any given industry that they are supposed to use. Apparently, your HR didn't and decided to get creative when they shouldn't have.

Rarely does the contract title or even the title on your business card have any real relationship to the job that you really do, truth be known.

sms

NB: with me, they can call me anything they want, so long as they put the bread in my pocket! :wink: Call me anything but late for dinner! :lol:

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Spass rejected , new application for EP

Postby dhingraneha_nd » Fri, 21 Aug 2009 10:33 pm

I came to Singapore on students pass and got an internship in Oil company where i worked part time for 1 year.

Now i have completed my course and my company wants to hire me.

they in a way knew that i would accept any salary so they offered SPASS with 1800 salary.

I am an MBA from India and came here for a Post Graduate Diploma in finance.

But my did not have quota so my SPass was rejected.

They appealed but still was rejected.

They really want me so they are willing to hire me on EP as well.

They offered me higher salary around 3000 so that i qualify EP criteria.

I do not have any prior work experience (full time) so when i assessed using self assessment tool on MOM website , It showed eligible only when i key in 3000 salary .

My question is that will there be issues with MOM on raise in my Salary?

In appeal my company showed quite nicely how much they need me and I am important for growth of their company .

Please advice on this .

Thanks in advance

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:04 am

No problem at all. This happens quite often as the company finds somebody that they really want and manages to convince the guy the salary is all that he can expect to receive with his level of experience or eduction. (In other words, getting you cheap) The Quotas were changed w.e.f. 1 July so it's harder for S Pass approvals now as well. But, when they really want you and there is a way out, often they will offer the difference necessary to still have your services (The had a pretty good buffer and you willing to sell yourself cheap was to their benefit as they had the budgetary spread to play with. However, hopefully you are going to work for an MNC and not a local company. Local companies (a fair number of them anyway) have bad reputations of applying for S passes and EP's especially for those from other South Asian neighbours and having arrangements with the new employee for the employee to return a portion of the salary back to the company in one form or another.

Be aware that that is highly illegal and if you are caught doing something like that and are found out, the employer will get fined heavily and the employee will probably be bounced out of the country and banned from returning. It's been happening a lot since the recession started. S pass holders have some protection as the law requires them to be paid via GIRO, but there are not checks & balances on EP's. Until you /the employer get's caught.

This seems to be done with WP's and S pass holders from PRC, India & Myanmar more than other Asian countries. (also Q Passes to a lesser extent) Not sure why the employees do it unless it because they will do anything to get away from their countries for a better future.

sms


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