Singapore Expats Forum

How difficult to get PR?

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
Pepijn
Regular
Regular
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu, 12 Nov 2009
Location: Clarke Quay

Postby Pepijn » Sat, 05 Dec 2009 7:46 am

I do think a proper point is being made. Look at it from the governments point of view.

Your wife is PR and working here for a couple of years. Because she is here, you can stay here until she leaves. Since you don't bring in any form of tax or contribution (monetary) for them, why would they give you the independent right to stay?

As soon as you secure a job with an EP, meaning you contribute and you would have an independent reason to stay, ICA sees a reason to keep you onboard by giving you a PR status.

I do understand a lot of jobs want you to be PR, I ran into the same issues, but that s not something ICA is concerned with.

Not saying I don't understand your frustration, but I think they are trying to make a point now, that they will not give people PR status, without these people contributing. They have a point in a way. You are still allowed to stay, and have the advantage of education and being locally based. It took me two years to find a proper job in Singapore. I could have married my fiancee in the hope I could get a PR status, but made the choice for independence.

In case you think this is a flame, it is not intended that way, I just hope you see things from another view point, and not think it's a personal slight of the state towards you.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34793
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 05 Dec 2009 8:41 am

Pepijn,

Good post and absolutely spot on! MOM & ICA are two different kettles of fish altogether even though they are both government agencies. IRAS is another that does not always jell with the other two either.

People who come here must always remember that this is a very small country with a very large population (density/sqkm). As they need to remain competitive in the world and nimble as well, they don't need deadwood sitting around doing nothing. If they didn't mind it, they wouldn't be creating all the opportunities for retraining for the locals/PR here in order to keep them viable. The rest? As has been done a lot more stringently since Sept, they are rejecting new applications, and also rejecting lots of renewals as well! I know, This month alone I've shed 11 staff with another 3 who were rejected on their renewals of their "S" passes (and they have been here a year already). Again, good post!

sms

uc
Regular
Regular
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun, 08 Nov 2009
Location: singapore

Postby uc » Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:40 am

Pepijn wrote:I do think a proper point is being made. Look at it from the governments point of view.

Your wife is PR and working here for a couple of years. Because she is here, you can stay here until she leaves. Since you don't bring in any form of tax or contribution (monetary) for them, why would they give you the independent right to stay?

As soon as you secure a job with an EP, meaning you contribute and you would have an independent reason to stay, ICA sees a reason to keep you onboard by giving you a PR status.

I do understand a lot of jobs want you to be PR, I ran into the same issues, but that s not something ICA is concerned with.

Not saying I don't understand your frustration, but I think they are trying to make a point now, that they will not give people PR status, without these people contributing. They have a point in a way. You are still allowed to stay, and have the advantage of education and being locally based. It took me two years to find a proper job in Singapore. I could have married my fiancee in the hope I could get a PR status, but made the choice for independence.

In case you think this is a flame, it is not intended that way, I just hope you see things from another view point, and not think it's a personal slight of the state towards you.


You mean spousal applications don't work these days?but my friends got theirs this yr(2009)even with low qualifications through their singapore wives/husbands.

User avatar
Saint
Director
Director
Posts: 3535
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2005
Location: The Juban Stand, Boat Quay
Contact:

Postby Saint » Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:52 am

uc wrote:
Pepijn wrote:I do think a proper point is being made. Look at it from the governments point of view.

Your wife is PR and working here for a couple of years. Because she is here, you can stay here until she leaves. Since you don't bring in any form of tax or contribution (monetary) for them, why would they give you the independent right to stay?

As soon as you secure a job with an EP, meaning you contribute and you would have an independent reason to stay, ICA sees a reason to keep you onboard by giving you a PR status.

I do understand a lot of jobs want you to be PR, I ran into the same issues, but that s not something ICA is concerned with.

Not saying I don't understand your frustration, but I think they are trying to make a point now, that they will not give people PR status, without these people contributing. They have a point in a way. You are still allowed to stay, and have the advantage of education and being locally based. It took me two years to find a proper job in Singapore. I could have married my fiancee in the hope I could get a PR status, but made the choice for independence.

In case you think this is a flame, it is not intended that way, I just hope you see things from another view point, and not think it's a personal slight of the state towards you.


You mean spousal applications don't work these days?but my friends got theirs this yr(2009)even with low qualifications through their singapore wives/husbands.


That is the big big difference, your wife isn't Singaporean.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9301
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:15 am

uc wrote:Mr Saint,i have been getting jobs here,even when i was on my MBA program....my four Ep applications were denied and the officers admonished that it was not my fault rather because of reccession,that currently their concerns are on their citizens and PRs(says MOM officer)..So you can see that jobs are not the problem.The records are there bro.
Maybe they are testing my loyalty,,if i can wait or not....I resent your opinion on MBA qualication being 3rd rate qualification.


Even relying on your own opinion there is completely no reason why PR should be granted. From the government point of view it would only mean more expenses and if they want to protect local market turning down your EP appl. why should they grant even more privileges with PR?

uc
Regular
Regular
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun, 08 Nov 2009
Location: singapore

Postby uc » Sat, 05 Dec 2009 2:54 pm

I just came back from Ica after few words with the officer........This is wht she said....."Your date for reapplication is 5/5/2010.She asked my wife how long we have been married prior to the application and my wife said 4months,and the officer said no wonder.She said it was not because of am currently not working that even if i have Ep today that it doesnt matter.That if i still want to reapply under my wife that i have to wait till that date.
That my LTSVP will always be renewed for me.

That's good tidings.I guess they want me n my wife to stay atleast 1yr in our marriage.

revhappy
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1067
Joined: Wed, 10 Jun 2009

Postby revhappy » Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:14 pm

I thought MOM would consider PR applications favorably when both husband and wife would apply together, in such cases the wife may not be working. So when spouse of PR applies individually and not working then they dont give PR? If that is the case then when both husband and wife apply for PR, why cant they grant PR to working husband and reject PR for housewife? I dont understand. Isnt there a chance that if the OP is granted PR they would produce a male child and would help the NS mission?
Last edited by revhappy on Sun, 14 Oct 2012 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

uc
Regular
Regular
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun, 08 Nov 2009
Location: singapore

Postby uc » Sat, 05 Dec 2009 10:28 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If it was a local MBA I would have to agree. (well not quite, but just a hair above 3rd rate). You don't have a job yet as far as I can see by your posts thus far. Saying you have had job offers is not the same as having a job. Part of the process is getting a job offer from a company that can support the necessity of hiring a greenhorn MBA without experience. A degree, without any experience, is just a piece of paper. A Masters is even worse if you don't have any experience to back up the MBA. That just says you can do academics. Does not indicate how effective you actually are in the workplace. Until you can demonstrate that, I'm afraid ICA's assessment is correct.

Is that detailed enough! See, that is what I mean, you have the paper, but it doesn't make you bright enough to reason out something that simple. You need experience rather than railing at those who give you answers that you don't want to hear. Probably your best bet is to return home.


Please i have undiluted experiences in various work places both in my country and beyond....Thats not the the case here ok,What we are talking about is spousal application....Please do not pass or give a sordid advice...Read what i posted earlier on,i have met with the officer today and she has advised us to reapply in may 5th 2010,ok.Family ties's a different application says officer,and it has nothing to do if one parter is working or not.

I believe i can get it once i reapply next year as they advised...My friends that had only diplomas got theirs through their spouse but on the second applications...Thanks

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34793
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 06 Dec 2009 12:00 am

So why do you think that is. Making you wait a almost a year? Or didn't to officer tell you? Or didn't you ask? So why are you posting in the first place then? We don't know the priority system and only have anecdotal evidence to go by. Additionally, I believe I know what the rules are governing Spousal Applications for PR, I got mine that way and long, long time ago. (better than 16 years now). If you don't write clear English, then we have to try to interpret what it is that you are trying to say. "I've had lots of Jobs but they all was PR or Citizens, come back when you have PR." Does that sound like you had a job? Doesn't sound like it to me. Sounded only like job offers. Just like a database, garbage in - garbage out.

The rules are changing daily with PR application since September this year. It's getting harder and harder. If you are not able to get a job, and you knock up your wife and she get retrenched, if they have given you PR, you then become a ward of the Country right? So it makes sense to me. Additionally, I suspect that as you got married here only a couple of months ago, ICA is probably looking at it as a marriage of convenience and wants to make sure that the marriage is for real and not a business transaction. It's been done here numerous times (and found out). And because of the economic mess, people are trying all kinds of crap to stay here. So don't get your dander up.

Good example..... what the hell is "undiluted experiences"? :???:

uc
Regular
Regular
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun, 08 Nov 2009
Location: singapore

Postby uc » Sun, 06 Dec 2009 1:20 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:So why do you think that is. Making you wait a almost a year? Or didn't to officer tell you? Or didn't you ask? So why are you posting in the first place then? We don't know the priority system and only have anecdotal evidence to go by. Additionally, I believe I know what the rules are governing Spousal Applications for PR, I got mine that way and long, long time ago. (better than 16 years now). If you don't write clear English, then we have to try to interpret what it is that you are trying to say. "I've had lots of Jobs but they all was PR or Citizens, come back when you have PR." Does that sound like you had a job? Doesn't sound like it to me. Sounded only like job offers. Just like a database, garbage in - garbage out.

The rules are changing daily with PR application since September this year. It's getting harder and harder. If you are not able to get a job, and you knock up your wife and she get retrenched, if they have given you PR, you then become a ward of the Country right? So it makes sense to me. Additionally, I suspect that as you got married here only a couple of months ago, ICA is probably looking at it as a marriage of convenience and wants to make sure that the marriage is for real and not a business transaction. It's been done here numerous times (and found out). And because of the economic mess, people are trying all kinds of crap to stay here. So don't get your dander up.

Good example..... what the hell is "undiluted experiences"? :???:


I will get it with patience.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9301
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Sun, 06 Dec 2009 3:52 pm

revhappy wrote:I thought MOM would consider PR applications favorably when both husband and wife would apply together, in such cases the wife may not be working. So when spouse of PR applies individually and not working then they dont give PR? If that is the case then when both husband and wife apply for PR, why cant they grant PR to working husband and reject PR for housewife? I dont understand. Isnt there a chance that if the OP is granted PR they would produce a male child and would help the NS mission?

The only thing sure is that there is no single factor and I would definitely not go that far to consider somebody's effective contribution in a form of breeding NS capable male successors. I guess there is at least equal chance that she may get a job and make by this redundant a Singaporean daddy so his family will not afford another child (possibly male, NS capable). Just to illustrate where this kind of speculations may lead to.

User avatar
Saint
Director
Director
Posts: 3535
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2005
Location: The Juban Stand, Boat Quay
Contact:

Postby Saint » Sun, 06 Dec 2009 8:45 pm

uc wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:If it was a local MBA I would have to agree. (well not quite, but just a hair above 3rd rate). You don't have a job yet as far as I can see by your posts thus far. Saying you have had job offers is not the same as having a job. Part of the process is getting a job offer from a company that can support the necessity of hiring a greenhorn MBA without experience. A degree, without any experience, is just a piece of paper. A Masters is even worse if you don't have any experience to back up the MBA. That just says you can do academics. Does not indicate how effective you actually are in the workplace. Until you can demonstrate that, I'm afraid ICA's assessment is correct.

Is that detailed enough! See, that is what I mean, you have the paper, but it doesn't make you bright enough to reason out something that simple. You need experience rather than railing at those who give you answers that you don't want to hear. Probably your best bet is to return home.


Please i have undiluted experiences in various work places both in my country and beyond....Thats not the the case here ok,What we are talking about is spousal application....Please do not pass or give a sordid advice...Read what i posted earlier on,i have met with the officer today and she has advised us to reapply in may 5th 2010,ok.Family ties's a different application says officer,and it has nothing to do if one parter is working or not.

I believe i can get it once i reapply next year as they advised...My friends that had only diplomas got theirs through their spouse but on the second applications...Thanks


I'm very surprised you are annoyed that your PR application has been refused. You keep on avoiding the fact that your wife isn't Singaporean but just a PR. If you look at the back ground of your PR application it doesn't really tick many boxes.

You are an unemployed African national student married for 4 months to a Chinese PR?

uc
Regular
Regular
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun, 08 Nov 2009
Location: singapore

Postby uc » Sun, 06 Dec 2009 9:17 pm

Saint wrote:
uc wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:If it was a local MBA I would have to agree. (well not quite, but just a hair above 3rd rate). You don't have a job yet as far as I can see by your posts thus far. Saying you have had job offers is not the same as having a job. Part of the process is getting a job offer from a company that can support the necessity of hiring a greenhorn MBA without experience. A degree, without any experience, is just a piece of paper. A Masters is even worse if you don't have any experience to back up the MBA. That just says you can do academics. Does not indicate how effective you actually are in the workplace. Until you can demonstrate that, I'm afraid ICA's assessment is correct.

Is that detailed enough! See, that is what I mean, you have the paper, but it doesn't make you bright enough to reason out something that simple. You need experience rather than railing at those who give you answers that you don't want to hear. Probably your best bet is to return home.


Please i have undiluted experiences in various work places both in my country and beyond....Thats not the the case here ok,What we are talking about is spousal application....Please do not pass or give a sordid advice...Read what i posted earlier on,i have met with the officer today and she has advised us to reapply in may 5th 2010,ok.Family ties's a different application says officer,and it has nothing to do if one parter is working or not.

I believe i can get it once i reapply next year as they advised...My friends that had only diplomas got theirs through their spouse but on the second applications...Thanks


I'm very surprised you are annoyed that your PR application has been refused. You keep on avoiding the fact that your wife isn't Singaporean but just a PR. If you look at the back ground of your PR application it doesn't really tick many boxes.

You are an unemployed African national student married for 4 months to a Chinese PR?


I believe you were trying to advice and to insult....ICA even denied my friends that have been here for years on P1.So they all know what they are doing.I'm gonna stick on what they adviced,to reapply in may 2010 , because before then my wife must have collected her citizenship.Thank you

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34793
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 06 Dec 2009 10:35 pm

uc wrote:I'm gonna stick on what they adviced,to reapply in may 2010 , because before then my wife must have collected her citizenship.Thank you


For your sake, I hope you are right. It was in the news very recently, that lot's of PRC's who are PR's are being denied Citizenship.

It has been found that, while ethnically they are the same as the majority race here, they do not assimilate very well, so the government is hesitant on giving too many of them citizenship. There reason? I'm not sure, but it might tend to cause enclaves which is what the current housing policy is designed to prevent. So she may or may not be granted citizenship. Only time will tell.

User avatar
Saint
Director
Director
Posts: 3535
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2005
Location: The Juban Stand, Boat Quay
Contact:

Postby Saint » Mon, 07 Dec 2009 8:58 am

uc wrote:
I believe you were trying to advice and to insult....ICA even denied my friends that have been here for years on P1.So they all know what they are doing.I'm gonna stick on what they adviced,to reapply in may 2010 , because before then my wife must have collected her citizenship.Thank you


Show me where that was an insult. I was just quoting facts as supplied by yourself that would have made up your PR application and reviewed by the ICA.

Good luck for next year


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “PR, Citizenship, Passes & Visas for Foreigners”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests