Is it acceptable to assault a 2yr child in public?

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quidsin
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Is it acceptable to assault a 2yr child in public?

Post by quidsin » Sun, 26 Jul 2009 10:40 pm

Yesterday, whilst shopping in Isetan Parkway Parade, I witnessed a Singaporean man push his 2yr old daughter over and then strike her across the face two times. This was in front of many other shoppers who just looked on 'gorking'. I screamed at him to stop and confronted him but he struck her again and then justified his actions by proclaiming that she had been a very, very naughty girl - A 2yr OLD !!!!
The young girl had visible marks on her face, which were no doubt the result of the three blows she took and everyone could see it. Yet no one else in the packed store would do anything stop him, which to me was just as shocking. The guy should have been restrained and held by security until the police arrived but was allowed to walk out of the store with the girl under his arms, crying her little heart out.

Is this sort of behaviour acceptable in Singapore? I know that it is common for parents to slap their children but this crossed the line both in terms of the age of the child involved and also the excessive force used by the parent. I don't what else to say except that I am still in shock from what I have seen and am absolutely disgusted.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:13 am

Unfortunately, or fortunately, you are in Asia and not in the West where you would either be shot or beaten yourself. Be thankful you are not in the west were the laws are so whacked out, the kids can do any damned thing they want and they do whatever they please.They know this by the time they're in Kindergarten, that a parent cannot discipline them cause they will be put in jail if anybody says anything. What the poor kids don't know it that when they do call the police that they will be put into a foster home when the parent is locked up. But, it's too late thanks to some goody-two shoes who thought they were doing the kid a favour. :-|
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by Plavt » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 3:20 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Unfortunately, or fortunately, you are in Asia and not in the West where you would either be shot or beaten yourself. Be thankful you are not in the west were the laws are so whacked out, the kids can do any damned thing they want and they do whatever they please.They know this by the time they're in Kindergarten, that a parent cannot discipline them cause they will be put in jail if anybody says anything.
You write so much garbage at times it is pitiful to read; e.g. 'they know this by the time they are at kindergarten' don't be ridiculous! Striking a child that age in the manner described is totally unjustified. In case you have forgotten or it hasn't registered in that tiny thing you call a brain leaving marks on a child's face is assault pure and simple. As for what happens in the west you clearly have never heard of Victoria Climbie or baby P, a great pity they never made it to a foster home! :x

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 7:15 am

Yeah, I do at times. I deliberately blew this one up out of proportion because the OP blew it up out of proportion. I agree that slapping a child in the face is wrong. But I don't don't think I'd go so far as to characterize it as an assault. That is what I took issue with.

It's those who would not allow the disciplining of a child in ANY WAY, that causes the problems. Again, I am not saying slapping a kid in the face was right, but I have no problem with a slap or two to a child's bottom if warranted. Would the OP said the same had the parent struck the kid the same way on the bottom? My bet, with the bile that the post was written with, would have been yes. Encouraging people to take the law into their own hands? Assault? Assualt usually mean an ongoing attack. 3 slaps, while not right, does not, an assualt make. Matter of fact it almost sounded like a measured response.

So, whether or not I write garbage, I don't believe it could be classified as an assualt. If more people were able to discipline their children when it was necessary, who knows, you might not have all the disciplinary problems you so often described in the council flats where you live in the city. I don't know, but it seems there is more problems today than when you were still allowed to discipline you kids, While disciplining children is necessary and too much is no good, I'm still not sure where you can draw the line that it was an "Assault".

At least, if nothing else, it should cause a decent discussion that hasn't been touched on here for quite a while. Good to see I can get a rise out of you occasionally.

Oh, one other thing, you really need to go out and talk to some young children if you believe I am kidding or writing garbage about 6 year olds knowing that they can call the police on the adults if the adult touches them in any way. You are a bit out of touch with reality. Course, being single wouldn't really be conducive to a lot of interaction with the younger generation I guess. So it's possible you wouldn't be aware of what young kids today know.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by Plavt » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 7:43 am

First of all the definition of assualt includes to do harm to somebody else and in the case of a child that age I would say it amounts to much the same thing. if not assault then the action of the parent is certainly 'over the top'. Does it never occur to you that you can do serious physical damage to a small child striking them in that manner at that age?

Just for your information kindergarten children in this country are pre-school with primary school starting at the age of five so unless there is something different where you are that I don't know about I am surprised you are presenting six year olds as kindergarten pupils or did you mean in America? Good grief no wonder us Brits are superior. :P :lol:
Course, being single wouldn't really be conducive to a lot of interaction with the younger generation I guess. So it's possible you wouldn't be aware of what young kids today know
Now you are just being cheeky as well as arrogant; was only recently I had the company of seven Somalis sitting on my door-step smoking skunk! I am well aware of what they and other know which is what allows them to get away with and what other children and parents know. However the issue goes way further thatn mere discipline which of course you have never given a thought. Consider this; in the days when they birched youths here nearly if not all re-offended within a short period of time.

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Post by quidsin » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 8:04 am

If they had have been slaps on the bottom then thats almost expected, but even then, is a 2yr old really expected to know the diff btw right and wrong at 2yrs? If they had been moderate smacks on the bottom then yes I would probably have turned a blind eye, but the fact that he pushed her over first and then followed this up with three strikes (and hard ones) across the face was way over the line. I don't know what planet you are from SMS but I'll tell you now that this sort of behaviour cannot be condoned - period.

Plavt is right, you obviously haven't heard the UK story about Baby P - suggest you do a little research on the internet to educate yourself. If only he were taken into care earlier then he would still be alive today.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 9:43 am

quidsin, as I said, I'm not disputing that the slapping in the face was wrong. What I was really taking issue with was the vehemence with which you came across with in your post. How hard the child was slapped is material and frankly I don't have any idea, only your tirade to go by and I can't obviously ask the perpetrator can I. Normally, when one goes off on a tirade like that, they are usually the types that don't believe in ANY discipline AT ALL. We've had them on here before and in your post you sounded just like them. Sorry if I've misjudged you - you have my apologies.

However, Baby P is one child. Of course we don't know how many more out there have suffered the same fate. But at the end of the day I wonder how many statistically speaking? Yes, even one is too much - I've said it for you. But I'd also like to see the statistics of juvenile crimes today versus say 40 years ago before the world decided to lose it to the PC do-gooders who really don't have a clue. And there is a big difference between abusive parents and discipline.

Plavt, in that case you have been assaulted many times right here on the board if your meaning of harm is to be believed. A slap is not likely to harm anything more than feelings. On the other hand, had he HIT her with his fist, he could have definitely done bodily harm. This does not seem to be the case. Oh, and if the only retort you can come up with is on the difference of kindergarten ages (which is only 4 or 5 and not the 6 that I said before even having my morning cuppa) then you are really clutching at straws.

Brits superior? I don't know of anybody from my generation that got in trouble from having been disciplined by their parents. Killed in the NAM, killed in car accidents due to drunk driving, but crimes of aggression? Nah. And most, if not all, respected their parents as well. Nowadays a kid neither respects or obeys their parents because they know the parents can't do a damned thing. Not all, and being from wrong neighbourhoods has a lot to do with it (due primarily to peer pressures - which the kids ape) And, apparently the British kids are worse than the rest as you so aptly pointed out in your post, smoking skunk on your doorstep. :P

I wasn't being cheeky at all. I was serious. Having the occasional interaction with the odd kid it not the same as raising and dealing with the problems on a day to day basis (your own) in your home and in your face and knowing you are still responsible for them until they reach the age of majority but you no longer have any method to gain their attention.

quidsin, just curious, at what age does a child/toddler become a cognizant person in your eyes? Mine started talking in sentences at 8.5 months of age which means they were capable of understanding concepts and able to verbalize their wants, likes & dislikes. I'm sure yours were probably about the same as well.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by Jeppo » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 10:53 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Assualt usually mean an ongoing attack. 3 slaps, while not right, does not, an assualt make. Matter of fact it almost sounded like a measured response.
Go slap a cop hard enough to leave a mark and tell us whether you get charged with assault or not. A measured response to what? Since you're such an expert tell us exactly what the girl did to deserve being hit.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:02 pm

Why ask me? Quidsin is the one who supposedly saw it all. She must have been following them around as it unknown exactly what the child might have been doing. As far as disciplining a cop.......you call him a racist or stupid if you're the president. :roll:
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by Addadude » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 1:10 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Why ask me? Quidsin is the one who supposedly saw it all. She must have been following them around as it unknown exactly what the child might have been doing. As far as disciplining a cop.......you call him a racist or stupid if you're the president. :roll:
And then he'll happily join you for a beer later on...
"Both politicians and nappies need to be changed regularly, and for the same reasons."

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Post by Plavt » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 2:51 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
But I'd also like to see the statistics of juvenile crimes today versus say 40 years ago
You have forgotten the population difference. :roll:
Plavt, in that case you have been assaulted many times right here on the board if your meaning of harm is to be believed. A slap is not likely to harm anything more than feelings.
The assault I was referring to was physical, your second sentence is quite wrong but then you are too much of an old 'stick in the mud' to see something differently, just what are so keen to accuse the locals of. :o
Brits superior? I don't know of anybody from my generation that got in trouble from having been disciplined by their parents.
Then you are living in on a different planet or know only a handful of people because I do. :x

Mine started talking in sentences at 8.5 months of age which means they were capable of understanding concepts and able to verbalize their wants, likes & dislikes. I'm sure yours were probably about the same as well.


They may well have had verbal command but concepts? I am not so sure.

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Re: Is it acceptable to assault a 2yr child in public?

Post by splat » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 3:45 pm

quidsin wrote:Yesterday, whilst shopping in Isetan Parkway Parade, I witnessed a Singaporean man push his 2yr old daughter over and then strike her across the face two times. This was in front of many other shoppers who just looked on 'gorking'. I screamed at him to stop and confronted him but he struck her again and then justified his actions by proclaiming that she had been a very, very naughty girl - A 2yr OLD !!!!
The young girl had visible marks on her face, which were no doubt the result of the three blows she took and everyone could see it. Yet no one else in the packed store would do anything stop him, which to me was just as shocking. The guy should have been restrained and held by security until the police arrived but was allowed to walk out of the store with the girl under his arms, crying her little heart out.

Is this sort of behaviour acceptable in Singapore? I know that it is common for parents to slap their children but this crossed the line both in terms of the age of the child involved and also the excessive force used by the parent. I don't what else to say except that I am still in shock from what I have seen and am absolutely disgusted.
Good for you for standing up against child abuse. I would do the same no matter what country i was in. Wrong is wrong.

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Post by littlegreenman » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 4:14 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:...It's those who would not allow the disciplining of a child in ANY WAY, that causes the problems...
SMS, I am usually on the same page with you but here I disagree a bit with you. I know how you usually post however and know you wanted to push the OP a bit. So my response doesn't have anything to do with you and I am not saying you do any of the below things.

The problem these days is that parents, in Singapore, the UK, Germany... the list is long, just don't spend time with their children any more. It is not so much about disciplining them any more but about teaching them wrong from right. Having a maid who barely speaks English doesn't help. Also she won't be too bothered as they are not her own children and teachers are there to teach the youngsters, not to raise them.

My parents NEVER laid hand on me but always took plenty of time to teach me why what I did is wrong by talking about it to me. That way I dare to say my sister and me turn out decent people, maybe too decent for our own good if you ask me. I remember coming out of kindergarten at the age of six and when I was in school I still kept telling the other children not to use certain words. If you keep slapping your children, one day they will be expecting this and your actions don't have impact any more. You can "brake their bones but not their obedience" and they will still do what they want to because they don't know their behaviour is wrong. Of course if they are still toddlers a little slap on the nappy won't hurt and only makes noise but it scares and in my opinion is right at that age because they can't speak much to them yet.

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Post by Plavt » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 4:43 pm

littlegreenman wrote:
The problem these days is that parents, in Singapore, the UK, Germany... the list is long, just don't spend time with their children any more. It is not so much about disciplining them any more but about teaching them wrong from right.
This is the crux of the matter; too many parents find these days they both have to work to make ends meet. Such situations are made worse by changing economies often encouraged or endorsed albeit directly or indirectly by governments and business alike.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 5:41 pm

Plavt wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
But I'd also like to see the statistics of juvenile crimes today versus say 40 years ago
You have forgotten the population difference. :roll:

You have forgotten that I said statistically therefore the absolute numbers are irrelevant.
Plavt, in that case you have been assaulted many times right here on the board if your meaning of harm is to be believed. A slap is not likely to harm anything more than feelings.
The assault I was referring to was physical, your second sentence is quite wrong but then you are too much of an old 'stick in the mud' to see something differently, just what are so keen to accuse the locals of. :o
Brits superior? I don't know of anybody from my generation that got in trouble from having been disciplined by their parents.
Then you are living in on a different planet or know only a handful of people because I do. :x

Well, with a farm on the east coast of the US, a number of years in Louisiana, a quarter of a century in Asia, yeah, I only know a handful. You will please take note that I said disciplined and not abused.
Mine started talking in sentences at 8.5 months of age which means they were capable of understanding concepts and able to verbalize their wants, likes & dislikes. I'm sure yours were probably about the same as well.


They may well have had verbal command but concepts? I am not so sure.

That's the difference between those who have raised children and those who haven't. Haven't you seen the toddlers who have their mother's wrapped around their little pinky? You don't think they cannot have concepts? :wink:
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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