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WIFE DEPARTED FROM SINGAPORE-MOM marriage restriction policy

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:57 pm

morenangpinay wrote:just try. .theres nothing wrong in trying. Singapore also ratified labor laws with ILO but they're violating some..

But I've heard from some friends there are Singapore citizens who married former work permit holders...and theyre here. I just dont know what they did..maybe they asked for permission from the government before marrying.

Im still asking my friend how her friends did it...il tell u when i get the answer. but most probably they asked for permission before getting married.. one guy sent his request to marry his filipino partner and hes still waiting. the girl has been travelling back and forth. i think its been 5 years now they live like that.


Singapore often has given permission, the problem is when people don't read what they are signing. All Singapore is doing is ensuring that those who do come here have a modicum of intelligence so they reserve the right to allow WP holders to marry Singaporean Citizens/PR's. You see, they are not unaware that a lot of WP marriages are marriages of convenience. You know that, I know that, ksl knows that. And so does the Singapore government. Simple really.

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Postby morenangpinay » Sun, 26 Jul 2009 2:54 am

but who are they to say who you can and cant marry?
Yeah there are people who marry for convenience alot of people do that in the US too.but i think its unfair to have this rule for certain pass holders. They didn't know they were going to marry a citizen or pr when they signed on this paper.

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Postby daddypool » Sun, 26 Jul 2009 4:40 am

wow...this is bad news indeed. Today is my Girlfriend's Bday. she is in Philippines, maybe coming here in less than 2 weeks time, just for visit. BUT her work permit for 6months had expired on end April, so she left then.

we had been planning to get married by end 2009..now i read all this!!! its already tough as it is, why things just get worse? i'm a fighter & i'll try my best, but laws are laws..& we both have 1 child each from past marriages, & may have 1 more..so its also 3 kids we r affecting if we cannot live here together. I cannot live there for employment & salary reasons...

im gonna follow this thread to see anyone has suggestions...

wow..what news do i have to tell her, on her Birthday, this morning, when she wakes up!!!??

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 26 Jul 2009 12:12 pm

daddypool wrote:wow...this is bad news indeed. Today is my Girlfriend's Bday. she is in Philippines, maybe coming here in less than 2 weeks time, just for visit. BUT her work permit for 6months had expired on end April, so she left then.

we had been planning to get married by end 2009..now i read all this!!! its already tough as it is, why things just get worse? i'm a fighter & i'll try my best, but laws are laws..& we both have 1 child each from past marriages, & may have 1 more..so its also 3 kids we r affecting if we cannot live here together. I cannot live there for employment & salary reasons...

im gonna follow this thread to see anyone has suggestions...

wow..what news do i have to tell her, on her Birthday, this morning, when she wakes up!!!??


You tell her before you have any children of your own and before you get married, that she MUST write to the MOM and ask for permission to get married. If she gets it. No problems. If she doesn't, then maybe both might want to look at some other arrangement (immigrate to Australia?). But guaranteed, if you get married, without permission, and she has ever held a WP, she will be banned from entry to Singapore.

morenangpinay wrote:but who are they to say who you can and cant marry?
Yeah there are people who marry for convenience alot of people do that in the US too.but i think its unfair to have this rule for certain pass holders. They didn't know they were going to marry a citizen or pr when they signed on this paper.


They aren't telling you who you can or cannot marry at all. They are just telling you if you marry anyone who ever had a WP, that they must get "Permission IF THEY PLAN ON HER RESIDING IN SINGAPORE". They aren't say she cannot get married, just that she will not be allow in Singapore. Big difference. It's not fair, I agree. And as I've said, I have a similar situation in my own family as well.

Unfortunately, I am not here to spread idealist wishes and hope fors, but only to give the facts as they stand. (Hell, in my case, the nephews wife even has a degree as well - but as I am sure you know there are '000's of your countrypersons here working in less than ideal circumstances while holding degrees as any job is better than no job at home. It sucks.

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Postby ksl » Sun, 26 Jul 2009 2:11 pm

Actually appeals through International bodies are normally free, for those on low income, these organisations are for the protection of human rights. It's true what SMS says, but still it is an injustice for some that are genuine and that 's always the case with bureaucracy.

If in the case of SMS's nephew, who has been married for a long while with children involved, it would hardly be a marriage of convenience. I also had the same problems moving to UK with a foreign wife, one needs to appeal to the highest authority and if that doesn't work, you go to the ombudsman.

I also know people get married for convenience and a lot of money changes hands, it's a big racket world wide.

In Denmark they even check occasionally by sending police to the house, to ensure they are living together.

It is certainly not easy, and for those that have suffered for years, they may wish to look at alternative ways of appealing.

It doesn't have anything to do with building hopes up, it has to do with righting a wrong and the majority of people do not read the small print on any documents, that is also common knowledge.

Appeals are income related!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 26 Jul 2009 2:31 pm

ksl wrote:, you go to the ombudsman.



Is there an ombudsman in Singapore? I don't believe so. And, is there an "international" ombudsman who would be recognized by the government of Singapore?

Or, in the context of Singapore, is this another wish for? I ask, because with all of the cases of this that have happened here over the past 20 years or so, you would have though someone would have pursued that option long ago......

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Postby ksl » Mon, 27 Jul 2009 1:51 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
ksl wrote:, you go to the ombudsman.



Is there an ombudsman in Singapore? I don't believe so. And, is there an "international" ombudsman who would be recognized by the government of Singapore?

Or, in the context of Singapore, is this another wish for? I ask, because with all of the cases of this that have happened here over the past 20 years or so, you would have though someone would have pursued that option long ago......


Who knows, but one think is for sure, the world doesn't stand still, I would drop the head office in Canada an email, just to see what response one gets.

It could well be that Singapore say it's internal affairs keep out, or they may just have a connection with the right person that deals with arbitration cases online..

I've no idea, although one thing is for sure, if you don't ask, you will never know! Maybe a search in the cases database will turn something up on the WHO website! Or Human rights watch Asia http://www.hrw.org/en/search/apachesolr ... man+rights

I think if you dig deep enough, you will find cases that have gone to the International Court, everything takes time, but organisations are there to put cases forward..Even the maids have slow progress in certain areas.

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Postby morenangpinay » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 3:17 pm

badluck the ones who are in Singapore requested for permission to marry before gettingmarried...and it took them long time to get the permission.

so goodluck.

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Postby Vaucluse » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 4:19 pm

morenangpinay wrote:but who are they to say who you can and cant marry?


Who are they? Umm, the government of the land maybe?


morenangpinay wrote:Yeah there are people who marry for convenience a lot of people do that in the US too.


So that makes it ok? What does one country's law have to do with another's? There are tests in the US as well in regards to legitimate marriage to a citizen, as there are in Germany, Australia etc etc etc

morenangpinay wrote:i think its unfair to have this rule for certain pass holders.


Why? The Singapore government is entitled to specify the type of potential migrant they wish to have.
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Postby morenangpinay » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 4:35 pm

in comparison to the US there are tests to ensure its not a sham marriage. Im just saying they don't discriminate based on a certain pass, education, or qualifications.

There are sham marriages in all levels of pass. if the government wants to ensure the marriage is true then by all means investigate but do not discriminate based on a certain pass.

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Postby Vaucluse » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 5:04 pm

You just don't get it, do you?!

This is one way in ensuring that only those in certain categories, consistent with the immigration criteria, will have the chance to stay.

It is simple. Every country has immigration criteria, be it educational, vocational etc... This is one way to ensure that loopholes are not used.
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Postby morenangpinay » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 6:01 pm

:genuflect: it still is discrimination disguised

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Postby littlegreenman » Thu, 30 Jul 2009 6:49 pm

morenangpinay wrote:in comparison to the US there are tests to ensure its not a sham marriage. Im just saying they don't discriminate based on a certain pass, education, or qualifications.

There are sham marriages in all levels of pass. if the government wants to ensure the marriage is true then by all means investigate but do not discriminate based on a certain pass.


I disagree because why would they need certain passes for at all then? You can bring your parents in on one pass but not another, that would be discrimination too applying your logic. PRs have so many more rights than EP holders, that is discrimination too then. Citizens have more benefits than PRs, it would be not fair to discriminate based on passport either then, no. So it would only be fair if everybody could live and work wherever they wanted to because otherwise it would be discriminatory based on someone's citizenship.

Further I would say it is highly likely that the odds of a marriage of convenience are lower in higher income classes => higher pass category. If high income earners want something, they can buy it.

A sovereign state has every right to impose immigration criteria on foreigners. If those foreigners do not accept these criteria they are free to leave (to be fair this can't be said for asylum seekers but I reckon they are not the subject of this discussion)

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Postby singaporemobi » Fri, 31 Jul 2009 3:29 am

I have been in and out of Singapore for the past 20 years. I doubt that the wife of the OP will be let and they have a strict rule set if we like it or not. Every one that agress to the t&c of the WP clearly signs that they agree to those terms. It would be easier if you resign from the company and move to your home-country or to the country of your wife.

If you or your wife didnt followed the rules, your chance of beating the system is almost zero because they don't make exemption.

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Postby Vaucluse » Fri, 31 Jul 2009 9:25 am

morenangpinay wrote::genuflect: it still is discrimination disguised


It is not disguised at all, why should it be? It is the government's stance, made quite clearly, on whom they wish to allow to live in their country.

If Singapore ws a western country you'd be crying 'racism', wouldn't you?

It always astounds me how people trying to get out of their country cry foul when their passage and entry to another country is not automatically paved with gold.
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