Singapore Expats Forum

PR and EP.. please help.. its URGENT

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

sudharshanu
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon, 18 May 2009

PR and EP.. please help.. its URGENT

Postby sudharshanu » Thu, 09 Jul 2009 4:54 pm

I got the PR approval letter and yet to copmlete the PR formalities but my EP got cancelled. Now will the PR formalities be continued if I get another EP within the 2 months time? Will the PR approval letter be valid or should we apply for PR again? Please help..[/b] :???:
Last edited by sudharshanu on Thu, 09 Jul 2009 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34782
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 09 Jul 2009 5:05 pm

If your PR has been approved, why do you need to get another EP? Why are you going to wait 2 months to take up your PR?

sudharshanu
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon, 18 May 2009

Postby sudharshanu » Thu, 09 Jul 2009 6:31 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If your PR has been approved, why do you need to get another EP? Why are you going to wait 2 months to take up your PR?

The final formalities are not complete yet..
Before that my employer canceled my EP because I applied for PR without their knowledge..

User avatar
jpatokal
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3014
Joined: Tue, 09 Dec 2003
Location: Terra Australis Incognita

Postby jpatokal » Thu, 09 Jul 2009 7:40 pm

sudharshanu wrote:The final formalities are not complete yet..
Before that my employer canceled my EP because I applied for PR without their knowledge..

What exactly do you mean by "final formalities"? What is not completed yet?
Vaguely heretical thoughts on travel technology at Gyrovague

calvink
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 381
Joined: Sun, 17 Sep 2006

Postby calvink » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 12:53 am

EP was cancelled way before ur PR got approve?

sudharshanu
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon, 18 May 2009

Postby sudharshanu » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 8:52 am

jpatokal wrote:
sudharshanu wrote:The final formalities are not complete yet..
Before that my employer canceled my EP because I applied for PR without their knowledge..

What exactly do you mean by "final formalities"? What is not completed yet?

Pr formalities includes getting EP152 form signed by the employer, submitting application for Re-entry permit and IC. After application, we would get the Re-entry permit and IC within 7 days.

sudharshanu
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon, 18 May 2009

Postby sudharshanu » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 8:54 am

calvink wrote:EP was cancelled way before ur PR got approve?

No.. We got the approval letter 20 days back and bcz we asked the employer to sign EP152, he cancelled the EP just 2 days back..

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34782
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 9:18 am

You are not required to have the sponsorship form signed by the employer. It helps somewhat but it isn't necessary. ICA has become aware that a lot of employers like to hold that above an employee's head like a Damocles Sword. You just need to write a letter to ICA explaining why you don't want to have your employer as sponsor Obviously it's a bit too late now but again, you can try. At the same time you can also indicate that the employer, upon finding out you applied for PR, terminated your Employment Pass. This is the best thing to do as it also flags that employer as well and they might have some difficulties later in getting EP's approved. (one can hope anyway).

This is a case where you need to see an officer and explain the situation instead of trying to do things in the background and eventually get yourself in a jam you cannot get out of. It's better to be straight with them in the long run.

sms

User avatar
xtasy010
Regular
Regular
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon, 09 Jul 2007

Postby xtasy010 » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 12:00 pm

Why would an employer prefer that the employee stay on EP as opposed to PR? I thought employer prefer PR over EP. Is it to avoid paying CPF? Or is it because it is harder for the employee to switch jobs while on EP?

User avatar
Saint
Director
Director
Posts: 3535
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2005
Location: The Juban Stand, Boat Quay
Contact:

Postby Saint » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 12:26 pm

xtasy010 wrote:Why would an employer prefer that the employee stay on EP as opposed to PR? I thought employer prefer PR over EP. Is it to avoid paying CPF? Or is it because it is harder for the employee to switch jobs while on EP?


Mainly down to having to pay CPF even it's staggered contribution over the first 3 years and only 4% the first year.

But also once they get their PR they can just up and go get another job, SMS knows this first hand!

User avatar
xtasy010
Regular
Regular
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon, 09 Jul 2007

Postby xtasy010 » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 1:03 pm

Then why do most of the job postings ask for Singaporean or PR only, or am I looking in the wrong place?

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34782
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 1:38 pm

Couple of things

Re the OP's problem. This from ICA website FAQs:

My SPR application has been approved. However, my employer refuses to sign the EP152. What should I do?

The purpose of the EP152 is for the applicants to confirm that they are still working in the same company as declared in their SPR application forms. If the employer refuses to sign the EP152, ICA is prepared to accept other forms of documentary evidence (e.g. a valid work pass, last 6 months' payslips, etc) of applicant's employment status.


xtasy010,

Yes, it's a way to keep the employee on slave wages. It's usually used with 3rd world workers as a means of keeping them on the jobs and cut rates wages. Once that employee gets their PR, they will normally just quit so that they can find a job that pays them a decent (or more decent) salary. It has little to do with CPF normally although this is the excuse most will use as if they are on an EP there is not any levies. S Pass and WP holders have levies ranging from $50 for S pass up to around $240 for certain WP holders.

Once the Employee has PR, the employer no longer has any hold over the employee so the employee usually leaves and rightly so. ICA recognizes this problem so has therefore given the applicant another way around the problem.

Singapore or PR? Easier to deal with. Other than payroll no real backend to contend with. Also, No repatriation to deal with, no mandatory medical insurance to carry. No quota's with ever shifting boundaries to worry about.

sudharshanu
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon, 18 May 2009

Postby sudharshanu » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 11:24 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Couple of things

Re the OP's problem. This from ICA website FAQs:

My SPR application has been approved. However, my employer refuses to sign the EP152. What should I do?

The purpose of the EP152 is for the applicants to confirm that they are still working in the same company as declared in their SPR application forms. If the employer refuses to sign the EP152, ICA is prepared to accept other forms of documentary evidence (e.g. a valid work pass, last 6 months' payslips, etc) of applicant's employment status.


xtasy010,

Yes, it's a way to keep the employee on slave wages. It's usually used with 3rd world workers as a means of keeping them on the jobs and cut rates wages. Once that employee gets their PR, they will normally just quit so that they can find a job that pays them a decent (or more decent) salary. It has little to do with CPF normally although this is the excuse most will use as if they are on an EP there is not any levies. S Pass and WP holders have levies ranging from $50 for S pass up to around $240 for certain WP holders.

Once the Employee has PR, the employer no longer has any hold over the employee so the employee usually leaves and rightly so. ICA recognizes this problem so has therefore given the applicant another way around the problem.

Singapore or PR? Easier to deal with. Other than payroll no real backend to contend with. Also, No repatriation to deal with, no mandatory medical insurance to carry. No quota's with ever shifting boundaries to worry about.


I thought of going to ICA without getting the EP152 form signed but I also felt what worse could happen if I ask my employer to sign. What I feared happened then, they canceled my EP immediately after I told them I got the approval.

They did not pay my salary and I have reported this to MOM. But they wont look into this issue since my salary is not below 2500 and I am not covered under the Employment Act. So I had to fix an appointment with MOM's Legal adviser asking for their advice.

I went to ICA to get their advice on this issue so I could extend the PR approval expiry date. That's when I got the worst shock, they tried to take away my PR approval because my EP is canceled and I am not supposed to have the approval letter. I had to fight back and tell them that I need that as an evidence to submit to MOM, only after that they gave back the approval letter, which I have to submit back after my appointment with MOM.

I used to think that Singapore's system is so transparent and its easier to get things done unlike other countries which is full of corruption. Now I have realized that may be because I am a foreigner, the government is not so much interested in helping me as an individual. I felt that in the attitude of my employer when they said "you go to MOM or any place you want, we have some good reputation and you cannot do a damn thing to us. If you win against us it is going to be a matter of $10,000 but if we mess up the case and win its going to be $100,000 fine for you".

I know its a clear blackmail but the fact is they are very confident that they could win even though there is nothing they could hold against me and all the evidences are pointing towards them.

I am glad that at least some people are trying to help me in this forum.
I really appreciate all your help.
Any advice would be of really great help.

Thank you,

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34782
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 1:19 pm

One thing you have not yet related to us here is what was the written excuse that they gave you for terminating your employment? I know it was done after you requested their signature for the sponsorship, but surely you had an appointment letter and also a dismissal letter. Ideally that should have been dated as well. If it can be shown that the dismissal letter was given AFTER the request for the sponsorship letter (PR IPA) then you may have a case against the employer. Unfortunately, as your income comes outside of the purview of the MOM you would almost certainly have to take it to a civil court and that would cost you some money. I'm not real sure where you should go from here (other than a lawyer who specializes in labour law).

sudharshanu
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon, 18 May 2009

Postby sudharshanu » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 1:47 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:One thing you have not yet related to us here is what was the written excuse that they gave you for terminating your employment? I know it was done after you requested their signature for the sponsorship, but surely you had an appointment letter and also a dismissal letter. Ideally that should have been dated as well. If it can be shown that the dismissal letter was given AFTER the request for the sponsorship letter (PR IPA) then you may have a case against the employer. Unfortunately, as your income comes outside of the purview of the MOM you would almost certainly have to take it to a civil court and that would cost you some money. I'm not real sure where you should go from here (other than a lawyer who specializes in labour law).


I didnt receive the termination letter, i didnt get any notice period and i didnt get the salary for the last month.

My employer just threw me off like a piece of garbage. I dont know what gives them the nerve to do so. I worked for them like a dog for almost a year and then this happens.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Careers & Jobs in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests