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whitey australians are racists...?

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TommyD
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Postby TommyD » Tue, 07 Jul 2009 9:12 am

Bafana wrote:Suggest you throw some more abuse and see if you can arrange to get a (insert any other nationality here - best yet an Aussie) to support your view completely, thus creating the illusion that you are correct.


From the name i'm guessing Vaucluse is Australian. You're entitled to your opinion, but Australians have a saying "Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got one".

Personally i think that the small amount of racism in Australia has more to do with xenophobia and "group think" (read "gang mentality") than imperialism, especially as it seems to generally be the low socio-economic and uneducated groups that lean towards racism.

But thats just my arseho. . . um, opinion.

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Postby Vaucluse » Tue, 07 Jul 2009 9:39 am

Bafana wrote:Where is the ability to understand a point of view that clearly goes against your own?

Should that not also go for you? You have yet to substantiate anything you have spewed forth, aside from the infamous; read history books.

If all you want is to do is shut down my opinions/point of view with abuse and labeling then go ahead.
Abuse? My, you are a tender flower . . . Never had any debating at school?

You are proving my point especially if you are both of British Origin since denial and misdirection have always played their part in the manipulation of others.
And another one bites the dust - I am definitely NOT of British origin. Try again with your labelling and generalisations . . . they make you look a fool.


My opinion is not based on being a Singaporean
And how would it be so? How can your viewpoint be based upon your nationality? Does this explain why you make no sense in this context . . because you reason out of <insert> instead of rationale and your read history books quip?

(though I have seen arrogant attitudes towards locals by Brits/Yanks/Germans/Japanese/Chinese/Aussies etc). Still waiting to see where my point of view is tripe.
You made the statement, back it up. Debating 101. Thers's lots of literature on Cultural Imperialism and the like . . why don't you read and quote?

The mere statement that Imperialism is not a co generator of racism does not make it correct. Look at Africa/Asia/Middle East/Aborigines. These are realities where imperialism has at the least focused racism.
This sentence makes no sense, please explain

Suggest you throw some more abuse and see if you can arrange to get a (insert any other nationality here - best yet an Aussie) to support your view completely, thus creating the illusion that you are correct.
I have no interest in being correct or incorrect, you are the one that made the statement, so it is up to you to back it up . . . does this really have to be made clear to you all the time?

Don't get me wrong, I have lots of British friends
Of course you do.

(sounds like a gay joke)
Are you homophobic as well as Anglo-phobic?

and my favorite TV shows are British. I got over my bias towards other races a long time back (still having trouble with Kiwi's though :p ). All I am stating is my opinion and I am not about to apologies for that.
No-one is asking you to apologise, so stop being all precious and discuss and debate - try some sources and quotes to back up your assertion.


Again i believe that all Aussie's have the commonality of racism shared with all other nations and the original post is a classic wolf in sheep clothing article which demands attention.
If it demands attention and if it is a trait commonly shared by all nations then why are you highlighting British Imperialism when the original subject matter is Australia?
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Postby Bafana » Wed, 08 Jul 2009 9:42 pm

Was debating whether to respond to our dear friend who loves Moderators so much (not sure about the a-hole post before that but will take it as some sort of support of free speech if not me). The forum needs a bit of life from time to time :cool:

A brief listing of books found searching specifically for British Empire Racism (to lazy to waste time on providing too much data to someone who demands it but will probably not even look at it before dismissing it) in no particular order on the subject of British Empire and Racism found in the libraries of University of London and Sydney University. The number off and sources of these titles (without digging to deep so far) would seem to indicate there may be some basis for my opinion lah:

(and before you get all excited with a witty reply I have not read them all)

Also suggest you read some books on Australian early history reference Aborigines and Convicts (before you ask - goggle it. That's what search engines are for and to be frank I am probably just wasting my energy/knowledge on you). Fatal Shores was probably the last book I read related to this subject (if only distantly)

1) Racism and empire : white settlers and colored immigrants in the British self-governing colonies, 1830-1910, Huttenback, Robert Arthur.
2) Black people in the British Empire : an introduction
Fryer, Peter. London : Pluto Press, 1988.
3) Bringing the empire home : race, class, and gender in Britain and colonial South Africa Magubane, Zine. Chicago ; London : University of Chicago Press, 2004.
4) A companion to contemporary Britain, 1939-2000
Oxford : Blackwell, 2005.
5) Death or liberty : African Americans and revolutionary America
Egerton, Douglas R. Oxford : Oxford University Press, 2009.
6) Orientalism and race : Aryanism in the British empire
Ballantyne, Tony, 1972- Basingstoke : Palgrave, 2002.
7) Race and empire in British politics
Rich, Paul B., 1950- Cambridge : Cambridge University Press, 1986.
8) Race riots : comedy and ethnicity in modern British fiction
Ross, Michael L. Montreal ; Ithaca : McGill-Queen's University Press, c2006.
9) race war : white supremacy and the Japanese attack on the British Empire
Horne, Gerald. New York : New York University Press, 2004.
10) Utilitarianism and empire
Lanham, Md. ; Oxford : Lexington Books, c2005.
11) An empire on trial : race, murder, and justice under British rule, 1870-1935 Wiener, Martin J.Cambridge ; New York : Cambridge University Press, 2009.
12) Dark Victorians
Dickerson, Vanessa D., 1955-Urbana : University of Illinois Press, c2008.
13) Race, science, and medicine, 1700-1960
London : Routledge, 1999.
14) The man on the spot : essays on British Empire history
Westport, Conn. : Greenwood Press, 1995.
15) Sugar island slavery in the age of enlightenment : the political economy of the Caribbean world
16) postcolonialism, racism, transnationalism
Huggan, Graham, 1958- Oxford : Oxford University Press, 2007.

Got to love your pestilence er persistence...

In answer to your other statements:

1) Minor substantiation given above.
2) Yes I am a Tender Flower.
3) My condolences on you not being of British Origin.
4) My reference to the effect of Imperialism on Australian Culture is clear that is how we got to this point.

As for your other comments your just stirring.

BTW your very bossy. You sure your not part of the Raj.
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Postby rattlesnake » Wed, 08 Jul 2009 10:31 pm

Mate, we're living in 2009 though. I don't think anyone is going to argue about the British imposing themselves on other countires, as did the French, the Portuguese, Romans, the Egyptians etc etc etc. Whilst we're at it, lets chuck some Huns in there as well eh, I mean their attempts were pretty recent! WTF has it got to do with some drunken Aussie bogans who decide to belt up a harmless Indian student..... in 2009? Some bloke who is lucky if he is 2nd or 3rd generation Aussie and may or may not be from British background i.e. just as likely to be balkan, asian or mediteranean.

Let me tell you something about racism in Australia, the Greeks don't like the Turks, the Vietnamese don't like the Chinese, the Croats and the Serbs still fight, people complain about Lebanese on beaches and Somalian taxi drivers and none of them give a toss about the Queen or British Empire (if it still exists). I'm not overly smart on the academic side of this debate, but my guess is, most of the issues around race boil down to a lack of understanding manifesting itself as intolerance, which I expect is mainly the domain of the lower socio economic classes (or bogans if you will). Your issue with British Imperialism is clouding your perspective too much. You never answered this, but my guess was and still is you have some sort of beef with their rule of Singapore. It's history and no grinding of teeth or thumping your chest will change it squat.

Oh and another thing, Britsh are not a race, neither are Aussies or Singaporeans. They are nationalities. Asians, Caucasians etc are races. You probably knew that though - from your books.

Before I sign off - sorry if any of this felt like abuse to you.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:22 pm

It's it funny how antagonists, when cornered, throw up the "it's 2009" timeline in there as if it made a tinker's dam. The point is, references were wanted, and unfortunately, got them, thereby leaving the other side of the debate well and truly with Image and feet firmly entrenched Image.

Out of this one, a chuckle, I got!
Last edited by sundaymorningstaple on Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:24 pm

rattlesnake wrote:Your issue with British Imperialism is clouding your perspective too much. You never answered this, but my guess was and still is you have some sort of beef with their rule of Singapore. It's history and no grinding of teeth or thumping your chest will change it squat.


Why would an Australian give a tinker's dam about British Rule in Singapore? :???:

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Postby rattlesnake » Thu, 09 Jul 2009 8:06 am

Welcome to the thread - jumped on the hook after all.

Putting pictures up - like you have done a few times, IMO makes you look like a complete :

Image

:wink:

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 09 Jul 2009 9:09 am

ahah! A doorknob! Very good and also very astute of you. That means my mind can be opened up with facts. Which, if that was meant that we differ, means your mind is closed to any facts that might be presented, which as you have already amply show us, is true.

Your acknowledgment is appreciated. Have a good day while you clean up the sputter off'n your keyboard that you just put there when reading this. :P :wink:

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Postby Vaucluse » Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:21 am

Bafana wrote:Was debating whether to respond to our dear friend who loves Moderators so much
Wow, your head has grown to the size required to be seen as a separate entity . . impressive. Ok, Mr. Moderator. As for Moderators, never really knew you were one . . .but I've 'known' Plavt and SMS for years . . . never had a problem with them

(not sure about the a-hole post before that but will take it as some sort of support of free speech if not me).
Umm . . sure . . . your command of the English language is . . .

A brief listing of books found searching specifically for British Empire Racism
Brilliant, thank you . . . and the pertinence to some (maybe) Anglo-background Aussie is . .

(to lazy to waste time on providing too much data to someone who demands it but will probably not even look at it before dismissing it)
You probably don't even see the irony in that, do you?! Oh, and providing a list of books is not providing data, it is far too broad-brushed for that

there may be some basis for my opinion lah:
And why wouldn't there be? Who would argue that racism played a part in Imperialism? You cannot move the goal-posts to suit your argument


Also suggest you read some books on Australian early history reference Aborigines and Convicts
Thank you for that advice, but I have in the past . . . have you?


(before you ask - goggle it. That's what search engines are for and to be frank I am probably just wasting my energy/knowledge on you).
Ok, Frank. As you are now chucking a teeny hissy-fit, I doubt your energy/knowledge is worth wasting, you seem to have so little of it


Got to love your pestilence er persistence...
Oh, a play on words, how witty . . .


In answer to your other statements:

1) Minor substantiation given above.
Very minor but not relevant


2) Yes I am a Tender Flower.
Precious . . . but you area Moderator, a step above us mere contributors . . . you seem to like to point out that snippet


3) My condolences on you not being of British Origin.
Not at all, I'm ambivalent about it. Congratulations on being Singaporean, you deserve it

4) My reference to the effect of Imperialism on Australian Culture is clear that is how we got to this point.
Umm, no it is not. You know nothing about Australian society, it seems, yet are simply blinded by your defensive-angry-at-the-world position


BTW your very bossy. You sure your not part of the Raj.
It should be 'you're', not your.

And yes, I'm quite sure


SMS wrote:
It's it funny how antagonists, when cornered, throw up the "it's 2009" timeline in there as if it made a tinker's dam. The point is, references were wanted, and unfortunately, got them, thereby leaving the other side of the debate well and truly with


Of course the timeline is relevant to the discussion, and simply listing a whole lot of books on British Imperialism doesn't make any sense in reference to Australia's inter-race relations that was the OP.
References would have been more useful had they been like the following, but Mr Moderator-can't-talk-my-way-out-of-a-wet-paper-bag was too 'lazy' to find them:

The Great White Flood - Racism in Australia, by Ann Patel

Oh, my Honours Thesis was 'Sport as a Tool of Cultural Imperialism' . . . so maybe I do know a bit about it.
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bigfilsing
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Postby bigfilsing » Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:17 pm

Vaucluse wrote:'Sport as a Tool of Cultural Imperialism'


I bet that's a crackin read :P

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Postby Vaucluse » Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:44 pm

bigfilsing wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:'Sport as a Tool of Cultural Imperialism'


I bet that's a crackin read :P


Academia seldom provides it . . . My wife is doing her PhD and I don't even understand her thesis topic
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Postby Bafana » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 5:00 am

Vaucluse wrote:Oh, my Honours Thesis was 'Sport as a Tool of Cultural Imperialism' . . . so maybe I do know a bit about it.


Who knows. Mein Kampf was a great race relations book and I am sure Hilter was very proud of his writing it. I did mine of the Application of Mini Fibre Optic Laser Doppler Anemometers in Fluid Mechanics - Does this make me a space man.

An expert in subjective matter rarely a master makes,
but an opinionated arse does take.


(that goes for me as well before you type a hasty one liner to prolong the idiocy)

You asked for something you got it. As expected in one ear out the other.

Timeline before and during the development of Australia is relevant in the discussion of the cause behind racism in Australia especially due to to British Imperialism (Colonialism) which is a real response to the OP.

Really is a waste of time sometimes. Troll is a word that comes to mind.
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Postby Vaucluse » Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:22 am

Bafana wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:Oh, my Honours Thesis was 'Sport as a Tool of Cultural Imperialism' . . . so maybe I do know a bit about it.


I did mine of the Application of Mini Fibre Optic Laser Doppler Anemometers in Fluid Mechanics - Does this make me a space man.
I don't know, not a subject mater I am knowledgeable about so I won't comment and make an arse of myself, Hi Bafana =D> , but it makes you even less of an authority on the subject matter discussed here

An expert in subjective matter rarely a master makes,
but an opinionated arse does take.
Uuh, clever . . . yours or care to reference it?

(that goes for me as well before you type a hasty one liner to prolong the idiocy)
Cool, I thought as much


You asked for something you got it. As expected in one ear out the other.

Timeline before and during the development of Australia is relevant in the discussion of the cause behind racism in Australia especially due to to British Imperialism (Colonialism) which is a real response to the OP.
No, it does not hold any value when you take into account the population and social structure of Australia today . . . the OP subject matter


Really is a waste of time sometimes. Troll is a word that comes to mind.
A Moderator and Troll all in one person . . . you are right, but such an odd combination


Keep trying, mod-troll . . . you are showing all the hallmarks of a country that only gained independence less than 50 years ago - the anger, anguish and Angst of those subjugated masses, suffering under the yoke of the British Imperialist forces.

This must be true as history shapes everyone, even the youngest among us . . . surely you would agree.

Really, you must as history is relevant to this topic . . .
......................................................



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Postby Bafana » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 4:40 am

Vaucluse wrote:Keep trying, mod-troll . . . you are showing all the hallmarks of a country that only gained independence less than 50 years ago - the anger, anguish and Angst of those subjugated masses, suffering under the yoke of the British Imperialist forces.

This must be true as history shapes everyone, even the youngest among us . . . surely you would agree.

Really, you must as history is relevant to this topic . . .


Thanks for finally agreeing with my argument and the relevance of my posts, as for the other comments you are wasting your time as it is clear you are not interested in any real discussion and just want to cause trouble.

That said I kinda like the nick Mod-Troll.
Last edited by Bafana on Sat, 11 Jul 2009 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bafana » Sat, 11 Jul 2009 4:42 am

Vaucluse wrote:An expert in subjective matter rarely a master makes,
but an opinionated arse does take.
Uuh, clever . . . yours or care to reference it?

Made it up as far as I know. Thanks for the compliment.
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