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Guide to NS issues

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RAKR
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Re: Guide to NS issues

Postby RAKR » Sun, 23 May 2010 10:35 pm

My son is turning 18 in Dec 2010 and he is a PR now. He has been studying in International School since Grade 6 before that he was in the local school. He recently got admission in UK Medical School. He has to join the Medical School in Sep 2010. If he has to do NS, he will lose his Uni seat. He doesn't mind coming back to Singapore to do NS at the age of 23, after he finishes his medical undergrad.

I need some advice on the following :-

1. Can we request for Deferment of NS till he turns 23? or
2. Should we renounce his PR? If so, can he do it now (17.5 years old)?

Thanks in advance..


[quote="kraikk"]Good day to all

I have been lurking on this forum for a long time and doing some research into this issue. In response to the same questions being asked over and over, I have written a short guide on NS issues for dual citizens and PRs. I hope it will be useful to all. Moderators, please remove if unhelpful. I also hope those who know enough and have experience can correct my mistakes and add useful information.

My interest in this is purely academic - I was born in Singapore to Singaporean parents and have lived here all my life (and served NS, of course). All the information here is either from the Internet or from anecdotes and hearsay. Remember that the final word is with Mindef or a court. Contact Mindef and retain a lawyer, that is the best advice you'll get on this forum. Please read the information here at your own risk.

Permanent Residents

Second generation PRs who attain PR status through their parents are required to serve NS. However, PR can be given up at any time. If you do not wish to serve, simply give up your PR at ICA. This allows you to legally avoid NS.

Note that giving up PR will have an adverse effect on any future immigration dealings with Singapore. Travelling and social visits on temporary visas should be no problem at all, while re-applying for PR and citizenship is probably out of the question. In between lies employment passes and such – I’m not sure about this but they’d take giving up PR into account.

First generation PRs are generally not required to serve. From the ICA website: “Main applicants who are granted PR status under the first generation Professionals/Technical Personnel and Skilled Workers (PTS) Scheme or the Investor Scheme are exempted from NS.”

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Re: Guide to NS issues

Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 24 May 2010 4:11 am

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Postby RAKR » Mon, 24 May 2010 10:13 am

Thanks for your response MS. I have responded to your message with my answers and follow on questions. I appreciate, if you could respond.

Thanks again.

First question
Mindef albeit CMPB allows deferment for overseas study but NOT FOR TERTIARY EDUCATION.You will not get this deferment that I am 100% sure.
So.... has he got his exit permit applied when he turns 13 to 16 and a half?
RAKR: NO



Has he register himself for pre registration for NS when he turn 16 and a half?

RAKR: NO. I don't think we pre-registered.

If not , he will have problem getting deferment in fact he has to return to serve NS when he turns 18.

Second question

Renunciation comes with several issues attached.
1. He must be a citizen of a foreign country
RAKR: YES - he is foreign national. Singapore PR.


2. He can only renounce when he turns 21

RAKR: Even PR he can renounce only at the age of 21 - Is it?

3. He is required under chap 93 of the enlistment act which he must fulfilled b4 he can renounce.

RAKR: Apologize for my ignorance. Where can I see this chap 93?

4. He must be of sound mind
RAKR: That Means?


So... the answer is NO

Your son is in a big mess then you ever realised. If you or him fails to respond or take any action on this matter, he is considered an NS defaulter which carries a $10,000 fine or 3 years jail

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 24 May 2010 10:37 am

http://statutes.agc.gov.sg/

Go to "E" and then click the "Enlistment Act"

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 24 May 2010 11:05 am

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Postby RAKR » Mon, 24 May 2010 11:43 am

Thanks MS.

Our family is residing in Singapore and I am filing my tax returns and paying tax without any break.

Given the above background and details, I still have more questions.

1. Can he surrender his SPR in Aug and leave to UK for his higher studies - without being branded as he commited an offence? If so, do you know the procedure - Should he inform and get clearance from CMPB first or go direct to ICA and surrender his PR - meaning cancel his re-entry permit?
2. Can he visit Singapore on social visit to see us later?

Thanks for being patient.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 24 May 2010 12:35 pm

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Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 24 May 2010 4:02 pm

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Postby RAKR » Mon, 24 May 2010 11:47 pm

Thanks MS.

All your info are very valuable to me. Let me give it a try and update you all. Wish me good luck.

Thanks again

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Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 25 May 2010 9:05 am

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Postby eleewhm » Mon, 05 Jul 2010 10:15 am

glad to really see someone so well versed...

i have a question.. well i am relocating out from Singapore due to work in July/Aug soon.. and i have 2 kids.. and one of them is a boy who is 7yrs old this year..will be entering grade 2 this year in the overseas school .. so he will be ahead of kids of his same grade

so far what i have read... and my intention is to let my son finish his University degree first then return to serve his NS.. then return back to overseas on exit permit to look for a job .. final place US.

what i need to know is that
- exit permit i need to start applying online when he is 13 yrs old??
- afterthat what do i do when its time for NS registration ( 16.5 ??) .. i wish to seek a deferement for him to complete his degree first then return to serve his NS... is that possible??? from what i read its not...

end of the day .. we want our son to serve his NS .. then leave Singapore once he has a job outside... .. but still keep his singapore citizen

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Postby Mad Scientist » Thu, 08 Jul 2010 5:26 pm

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Slightly different predicament...

Postby fashun_diva » Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:50 pm

I hope that I can get some advice for my situation...

I am a Singapore PR holding dual citizenship and pregnant with a boy. My husband is a S'porean citizen. Given that we will *eventually* want to move back to my home country, I don't want my son to be encumbered with NS/reservist liabilities- UNLESS he expresses an explicit desire to do NS or become a Singapore citizen- that's his choice.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but based on the info in this forum, it seems my best option is to give birth in my home country and come back here after that.

However, if I do so, what will my son's immigration status be? I realize PR status isn't an option (liable for NS as a 2nd gen PR), so would it be on a long term visit pass initially and later a student pass, when he is of school- going age? Is that granted to a child of a PR and SG citizen (the govt isn't naiive, after all)? Or do I need to give up my own PR status and "downgrade" myself to an employment pass??


Giving birth overseas isn't my preferred choice, but I want to make sure I explore all possible options while I still have those choices (now in my 2nd trimester). It's frustrating that I can't find the info I need through the "official" channels (though understandable, I guess- sigh).

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:24 am

You can give him the LTVP route with no problems. However, if your husband is a Singaporean, be advised that your son, if here by the LTVP or Student Pass route, will probably never be given PR or Citizenship here and quite possibly, he would also have a problem obtaining an EP, because, as you rightly pointed out, the gahmen here aren't naive. And they are spiteful! So, if you wriggled his way out of paying his dues considering he has a Singaporean Father, then the gahmen will make him pay later by their refusal to grant him any sort of visa/employment pass once his student pass has expired. He will forced to leave the country with his only option of visiting as a tourist visa. So, think carefully, in this rapidly shrinking world, if you seriously want to cripple you son instead of giving him mu ltiple choices...... :-|

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Postby fashun_diva » Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:05 pm

Thanks so much for your input on my situation-- you are absolutely correct... this is not a decision to be taken lightly as you ultimately don't want to inadvertently limit your child's choices for him.

I guess the other option for me is upon birth in Singapore:
(1) As is required by ICA, register his birth with them
(2) At the same time, register him with my local embassy as a foreign citizen
(3) Before 12.5yrs inform Mindef of his intention to renounce his Singapore citizenship (presumably given by default as his father is S'porean)
(3) Should we ever holiday overseas from age 13-18, apply for the necessary exit permits
(4) At age 18 obtain NS deferment from Mindef
(5) Officially renounce Singapore citizenship at 21 yrs

+ throughout that period, don't accept a pink IC, use a Singapore passport or take PR (as can be conferred through my own PR status).

Have I left out any critical steps?

Presumably sometime very soon after birth I'd have to register him for a long term visit pass (and switching to a student pass when he enters primary school) so he can legally stay in Singapore.

This is of course assuming that the authorities approve all the above applications every step of the way and within the next 21 years, don't change their policies!

But this strategy allows for the option to take on SG citizenship (and do NS) should he change his mind before 21, I would imagine...


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