Singapore Expats Forum

Am I expecting to much? Or am I really earning to little?

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

irvine
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 312
Joined: Mon, 15 Dec 2008

Postby irvine » Tue, 23 Jun 2009 4:44 pm

Hithnar.. be depressed, be angry, be down, be negative.

Or, you could be relieved you got a job to do, got salary to pay rent, got colleagues to talk to, and got things to learn. And got a future to enter.

Pull yourself together, and stick this out till you get a lucky break. Or, quit now and mope at home everyday.

It is never fair in this society. You have a job, you have salary, you have a roof over your head, food in your tummy, and you're living in a first world country with good running water to drink. Is that fair?

Stop whining about feeling cheated during negotiation what happened this and that. Reality is what you have now. If your work and efforts are recognized by your superiors, you will get your reward in Dec or next January at bonus time. Heck, they could even promote you. However, if you think you're wasting your time with them, then move on.

And if you're able to earn so much for the company, why not coming out on your own? It's not very difficult to do designs yourself with the availability of so many great softwares in the market. To do well in advertising, you need to have great ideas (esp what the client wants), a good mouth, and a good attitude. Do you have all?

Truth is, you can have all if you want.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34789
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 23 Jun 2009 4:53 pm

Hithnar wrote:I feel cheated cuz during the negotiation process I got the impression that I will eventual earn more (and my employer did nothing to disperse that impression).


But did you get it in writing? And, frankly, even if you did, it's still possible that due to the economy you still wouldn't have gotten it. Always remember one important thing - If you don't have it it writing, you ain't got it. And even that isn't a guarantee.

Chin up though. At least you HAVE a job and if your are smart you will start sniffing around (even though the market is small as addadude has indicated). My daughter went the advertising agency route two years ago. She went through two local companies and then got an offer from ?&? so she was really walking on cloud nine for a little while. She was even made the account manager for one of, if not their biggest local brands here (addadude can probably figure out that one). She did it for 6 months and last year she resigned because the hours didn't meet the salary expectations. She got lots of face and travel and night life but a miserable paycheck (guess she was supposed to eat & survive on only the hype).

User avatar
Addadude
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 702
Joined: Fri, 26 May 2006
Location: Darkest Telok Blangah
Contact:

Postby Addadude » Tue, 23 Jun 2009 6:27 pm

Hithnar wrote:I feel cheated cuz during the negotiation process I got the impression that I will eventual earn more (and my employer did nothing to disperse that impression). I knew the average is 2500 SGD for marketing executives, and I agreed to earn less because I thought its a matter of my employer not wanting to pay a full price during the probation period.


Hmm... this is where you have a problem. Your 'impression' is just that. Your impression. It clearly wasn't your employers. Unless amounts are stipulated in WRITING they mean nothing and remain hearsay. I notice that at no time do you state that your employer SAID specifically that they would pay you $2500... it was simply because you happened to "know" that this was the average for marketing executives. (Is that really what they call you in your agency? I'm serious: I've never heard that title used within an agency before.) I repeat there is NO industry standard for beginners - or even for seniors - you get what you can negotiate.

Hithnar wrote:I know how much I earn for the company, and I know they do well financially (quotations go through my hands). My colleagues earn far more than me. Its just me and my short end of the stick.


Ah, quotations are just that: quotations. a) Most clients will not pay what is initially quoted - they'll bargain down. b) Most clients will do amendment after amendment, using up tremendous man hours and won't pay for it either. c) Most clients never pay on time or have 'issues' with invoices!

Hithnar wrote: What really worries me at that point, that from your word seems that I will never earn more. Never going to travel, rent an apartment without roommates, bah! even pay social security! How is it, that everyone can have that, but not me? I feel very depressed right now.


No. I never said you would spend eternity in penury. Please refer to my second reply to you:

"You're just starting your career. It's almost an unwritten rule that first timers in advertising are always 'exploited'. If you are talented and work really, really hard, you can eventually change that situation. You are on the first rung of the ladder. Keep climbing."

What I did say in my last reply was that compared to other equally labour and time intensive professions, advertising pays pretty badly. You can still make decent money - depending on how you define 'decent'. But it is unlikely that it would match what you could earn as an equally talented and hard working lawyer with the same amount of experience. Even the TOP people in advertising will find that their income pales by comparison with the top people in other industries.

At the moment you are in an ever decreasing negative spiral, reinforcing your feelings that you are being 'exploited'.

You are not.

You got a job in a VERY difficult market situation - at a time when many others are losing theirs - or taking massive paycuts (up to 40% I've heard).

Honestly, I'm sorry to be harsh, but get over it. As SMS says, you don't have to endure it if you don't want to.
"Both politicians and nappies need to be changed regularly, and for the same reasons."

User avatar
Addadude
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 702
Joined: Fri, 26 May 2006
Location: Darkest Telok Blangah
Contact:

Postby Addadude » Tue, 23 Jun 2009 6:32 pm

And SMS, you're right. I think I can guess both agency and client... If it was the agency beginning with "O", she should have stuck it out: they provide EXCELLENT training for account service people. A couple of years of 'hell' and she could have really accelerated her career. If it was the agency beginning with 'S" and it was the local account I'm thinking of, she was probably quite right to leave! Agencies tend to reward you with titles rather than salaries!
"Both politicians and nappies need to be changed regularly, and for the same reasons."

Hithnar
Regular
Regular
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed, 23 Jul 2008

Postby Hithnar » Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:26 am

Addadude wrote:Honestly, I'm sorry to be harsh, but get over it. As SMS says, you don't have to endure it if you don't want to.


Thats partially why I needed to ask you guys for another opinion. I'm already looking around for alternative job options, but if 2k is what I will get regardless of the employer, then I would just not bother (I really like my job scope and the company, it's only the pay that I am having a hard time dealing with).

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Wed, 24 Jun 2009 12:37 am

Hithnar wrote:
Addadude wrote:Honestly, I'm sorry to be harsh, but get over it. As SMS says, you don't have to endure it if you don't want to.


Thats partially why I needed to ask you guys for another opinion. I'm already looking around for alternative job options, but if 2k is what I will get regardless of the employer, then I would just not bother (I really like my job scope and the company, it's only the pay that I am having a hard time dealing with).
Straight from those that really have a good idea about the worth of an individual in Singapore, although all is not lost, if you have faith in your own abilities, the saying goes keep your chin up and soldier on, until the right opportunity comes along, and it will if you look for it. I would be looking at 2500 or even 3k, but for that kind of money, i want something that works.

It's not easy for any employer, if they have no idea of the trade and industry, these positions are normally built from the bottom up, if the agency doesn't know what is expected from the employer and many do not, Human resources is a very specialised area of employment which takes skill to choose skill, based on many factors, not including CV's. The CV's are a very basic introduction, to the short listing in my opinion, although many do their own way, to say who is right and who is wrong, is quite easy to prove over a period of time, like 6 months to a year. Really a good human resources personnel would minimise risk so well, that they should be working as bookies. This is quality evaluation, which you do not mind paying for!

To put it another way, you could ask what work experience does the agent have, and where does his man management abilities come from, I don't believe you can achieve it through academic education at all, but you can achieve it with pure experience. Long winded I know, but if that's what it takes, for the minority to understand, then its a job well done. and who gives a f---k about those that do understand.

morenangpinay
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 890
Joined: Mon, 02 Mar 2009

Postby morenangpinay » Wed, 24 Jun 2009 1:40 am

If you feel like you're being cheated from your worth, then make use of the company. Learn as much as you can from your job, get as much exposure as you can, get as many trainings as you can, widen your network and build bridges. Get as much out of this job as you can.

applejooze
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu, 25 Jun 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby applejooze » Thu, 25 Jun 2009 1:51 pm

It's natural to feel discontented with your lot. It's basic human nature.

Having said that, it's really up to you to continue to eat from the platter you have been offered, or find another platter to dig into, if you are able to find this other one in this economic climate, that is.

Economies are falling apart, big companies are collapsing or on their knees, many more will find themselves out of jobs by this year end, debtors are increasing in number,... that's pretty much what the modern world is facing today, or else the media is having us on.

madura
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 220
Joined: Tue, 01 Jan 2008

Postby madura » Sat, 27 Jun 2009 2:04 pm

Addadude wrote:2. As I mentioned before, in the ad industry a starting salary of $2k a month is not that unusual for a first timer - especially during these times.


I am quite familiar with the starting salaries of this field and yes, $2k is not at all unusual. In fact, I have heard of fresh local degree holders accepting $1.6k/$1.8k from the smaller agencies, and that was before the recession.

Also, it is standard practice to pay master degree holders the same as bachelor degree holders. In fact, I would be very shocked if you can name me an agency which would pay significantly more for a master degree holder with no experience.

Hithnar
Regular
Regular
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed, 23 Jul 2008

Postby Hithnar » Sun, 28 Jun 2009 1:28 pm

hey guys, just a quick update from me. This thread helped me a lot, I guess I really needed some shaking up...

I blamed my agency for not paying me as much as I would feel comfortable with... But I guess thats one thing I gotta accept. It still irks me to know that others earn more, but that just shows why companies discourage their employees from sharing information on their earnings ;p

I'm still a bit bummed about my financial perspectives, but I guess all the talking here made me more appreciative of the things I already have. No matter how I look at it, there are thousands of young ppl who would like to have the fab title of forking in marketing ;)

And yeah... Dun have to live and work in the hell-hole called my home country, so it's kinda awesome anyways ;)

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34789
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 28 Jun 2009 3:32 pm

That's better! :cool:

Hithnar
Regular
Regular
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed, 23 Jul 2008

Postby Hithnar » Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:34 pm

Should have talked to you guys earlier. I'm prolly gonna get fired :| Oh well...

morenangpinay
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 890
Joined: Mon, 02 Mar 2009

Postby morenangpinay » Sat, 04 Jul 2009 1:42 am

Hithnar wrote:Should have talked to you guys earlier. I'm prolly gonna get fired :| Oh well...


they are firing you? why?

Hithnar
Regular
Regular
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed, 23 Jul 2008

Postby Hithnar » Wed, 08 Jul 2009 10:42 pm

I have been bummed for the past few months, and I guess it also reflected on how the team perceives my performance...

User avatar
Saint
Director
Director
Posts: 3535
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2005
Location: The Juban Stand, Boat Quay
Contact:

Postby Saint » Thu, 09 Jul 2009 8:50 am

Hithnar wrote:I have been bummed for the past few months, and I guess it also reflected on how the team perceives my performance...


:o


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Careers & Jobs in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests