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What's wrong with the work mentality here?

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Girl_Next_Door
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What's wrong with the work mentality here?

Postby Girl_Next_Door » Tue, 16 Jun 2009 11:06 am

Had an grueling day and its hardly even 11am!

1) To start, we need to review a group of customers. My idea of efficiency (which seems like the obviously wrong route), is to get 2 dept pull out the customers list, and give to another group of people (A) to review.

But, it seems like the right route is to get group A, to figure out who they think is their customers, and give to the 2 dept to verify, then back to the original route (Group A) to review.

2) There is a report that I need to submit and there is 1 girl who have access to the system that store all the information. However, she thinks the best route is to send an email to 8 HODs, get them to provide the information, then I use their replies for my reports. That, seems to me a lazy way for her, because she don't have to access the system to pull out the records.

And I would think that going through 1 person, is easier and faster... than going through 8 people!

How wrong am I...

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Re: What's wrong with the work mentality here?

Postby blue_thunder » Tue, 16 Jun 2009 2:29 pm

Girl_Next_Door wrote:Had an grueling day and its hardly even 11am!

1) To start, we need to review a group of customers. My idea of efficiency (which seems like the obviously wrong route), is to get 2 dept pull out the customers list, and give to another group of people (A) to review.

But, it seems like the right route is to get group A, to figure out who they think is their customers, and give to the 2 dept to verify, then back to the original route (Group A) to review.

2) There is a report that I need to submit and there is 1 girl who have access to the system that store all the information. However, she thinks the best route is to send an email to 8 HODs, get them to provide the information, then I use their replies for my reports. That, seems to me a lazy way for her, because she don't have to access the system to pull out the records.

And I would think that going through 1 person, is easier and faster... than going through 8 people!

How wrong am I...


Nothing wrong!!!
This is the work culture , I have seen the same approach among my colleagues here ??
So try to blend in and become inefficient :wink:

Cheers~
~ I don't want to be a product of my environment, I want my environment to be a product of me

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Postby bigfilsing » Tue, 16 Jun 2009 2:30 pm

You've clearly made a stupid mistake ...silly you.

You've applied logic to your task 8-) and forgotten all the intermediate steps of position and self justification of your colleagues, not to mention allowing them time to claim brownie points for other peoples (your) ideas and hard work.

Welcome to the world of Asian office politics, "face" and general lazy half arsed approach to getting things done.

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Postby Vaucluse » Tue, 16 Jun 2009 2:43 pm

bigfilsing wrote:You've clearly made a stupid mistake ...silly you.

You've applied logic to your task 8-) and forgotten all the intermediate steps of position and self justification of your colleagues, not to mention allowing them time to claim brownie points for other peoples (your) ideas and hard work.

Welcome to the world of Asian office politics, "face" and general lazy half arsed approach to getting things done.


Those pesky Asians . . . isn't it great that only we white people know how to work correctly and we never have an ego to protect.

Hi bigfilsing, Image , which business-utopia are you from? The UK? OZ, maybe? Nah, the US, right? South Africa?

Irrelevant. Main thing is we KNOW we are better than the little slant-eyed heathens, right? :wink:
......................................................

'nuff said Image

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Postby vbelle » Tue, 16 Jun 2009 3:29 pm

bigfilsing wrote:You've clearly made a stupid mistake ...silly you.

You've applied logic to your task 8-) and forgotten all the intermediate steps of position and self justification of your colleagues, not to mention allowing them time to claim brownie points for other peoples (your) ideas and hard work.

Welcome to the world of Asian office politics, "face" and general lazy half arsed approach to getting things done.



hmm.....asian people will get offended by this...(i hope not..)
mind you...lots of westerners working here.....

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Postby carteki » Tue, 16 Jun 2009 3:56 pm

Irrelevant. Main thing is we KNOW we are better than the little slant-eyed heathens, right? :wink:


Don't know - this scenario sounds just like those I've experienced back home - it is just corporate... learn to play the game, not make waves and you'll get ahead.

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Postby Girl_Next_Door » Tue, 16 Jun 2009 5:45 pm

That's a terrible work mentality to have. Sorry if I sound condescending, but maybe that's why so many of them are stuck with the same job for years, doing the same thing, with no promotion or career progression.

Another thing I don't understand is how people will hang around after 6pm, and pretend to work. Won't that reflect bad time management? When they think that they "appear" to be hardworking.

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Postby carteki » Tue, 16 Jun 2009 5:57 pm

Girl_Next_Door wrote:Another thing I don't understand is how people will hang around after 6pm, and pretend to work. Won't that reflect bad time management? When they think that they "appear" to be hardworking.


It is not seen that way. When in Rome.... I have experienced the same all over the world - the person who spends the most time is definitely doing the most work :? At least here it is openly acknowledged.

There is a reason why it seems to be an expat v local thing - those people in the west who lack ambition and drive are ... you guessed it -BACK HOME and not here!

In some respects, in the west we have it easy. In HK for instance on the top 10% of students get to go to uni in HK, the rest have to go elsewhere. There is amazing competition for position and "being average" just won't make the cut. There are some good things and bad things about this, but we have to live with it...

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 16 Jun 2009 6:01 pm

That is a peculiar local trait that you find both here and in Malaysia to a lesser extent. The philosophy is that the bosses here expect to see them getting more work for their money spent. Unfortunately they don't see value in efficiency but more in visibility. That is also why flexi-working or tele-working isn't very big here as well.

Unfortunately, people like myself have a problem with staff who do this as I've told them time and time again, if you have that much work, one of two things is happening. 1) you have too much work load for one person or 2) you are inefficient and therefore should be replaced with someone who can get it done in the normal work day. If it one, and you don't speak up, I will think you are incompetent. If it's two, when I realize it, your history.

Of course this doesn't apply to special projects like tender submissions.

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Postby bigfilsing » Wed, 17 Jun 2009 7:39 am

Vaucluse wrote:
bigfilsing wrote:You've clearly made a stupid mistake ...silly you.

You've applied logic to your task 8-) and forgotten all the intermediate steps of position and self justification of your colleagues, not to mention allowing them time to claim brownie points for other peoples (your) ideas and hard work.

Welcome to the world of Asian office politics, "face" and general lazy half arsed approach to getting things done.


Those pesky Asians . . . isn't it great that only we white people know how to work correctly and we never have an ego to protect.

Hi bigfilsing, Image , which business-utopia are you from? The UK? OZ, maybe? Nah, the US, right? South Africa?

Irrelevant. Main thing is we KNOW we are better than the little slant-eyed heathens, right? :wink:


Now now! lets not make this into another "them and us" slinging match

Lots of the things i mentioned occur everywhere not just here, but i honestly believe their respective effect on efficiency is minimised.
Probably in connection with relatively low labour cost here you tend to find 5 or 6 people doing the work of 4. More people = more issues :roll:

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Postby Vaucluse » Wed, 17 Jun 2009 10:12 am

bigfilsing wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:
bigfilsing wrote:You've clearly made a stupid mistake ...silly you.

You've applied logic to your task 8-) and forgotten all the intermediate steps of position and self justification of your colleagues, not to mention allowing them time to claim brownie points for other peoples (your) ideas and hard work.

Welcome to the world of Asian office politics, "face" and general lazy half arsed approach to getting things done.


Those pesky Asians . . . isn't it great that only we white people know how to work correctly and we never have an ego to protect.

Hi bigfilsing, Image , which business-utopia are you from? The UK? OZ, maybe? Nah, the US, right? South Africa?

Irrelevant. Main thing is we KNOW we are better than the little slant-eyed heathens, right? :wink:


Now now! lets not make this into another "them and us" slinging match

Lots of the things i mentioned occur everywhere not just here, but i honestly believe their respective effect on efficiency is minimised.
Probably in connection with relatively low labour cost here you tend to find 5 or 6 people doing the work of 4. More people = more issues :roll:


Hi Image. I believe it is you who started the 'us and them' slanging match, you may wish to read your post again.

Low labour cost? Compared to whom and compared to where? Malaysia? Thailand? Or are you comparing it to Sweden or Norway, or some other inadequate line of logic?

People here work differently from other countries, perhaps you would also like to mention that Japanese workers tend to stay in the office until 10 pm every day . . . even though they have 'completed' their work hors earlier. Does this make them inefficient?

There are inefficiencies in any system . . . and since you didn't mention where you hail from I can't give you specific examples of what it is like there, but I can guarantee that it is no different in scope, possibly even worse.

It gets tiresome reading all this rubbish about how 'bad. inefficient, slovenly, slow etc . . . ' workers are here when the exact same thing occurs on our home countries.

See, Image, the grass is not greener.
......................................................



'nuff said Image

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Postby bigfilsing » Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:44 am

Vaucluse wrote:
bigfilsing wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:
bigfilsing wrote:You've clearly made a stupid mistake ...silly you.

You've applied logic to your task 8-) and forgotten all the intermediate steps of position and self justification of your colleagues, not to mention allowing them time to claim brownie points for other peoples (your) ideas and hard work.

Welcome to the world of Asian office politics, "face" and general lazy half arsed approach to getting things done.


Those pesky Asians . . . isn't it great that only we white people know how to work correctly and we never have an ego to protect.

Hi bigfilsing, Image , which business-utopia are you from? The UK? OZ, maybe? Nah, the US, right? South Africa?

Irrelevant. Main thing is we KNOW we are better than the little slant-eyed heathens, right? :wink:


Now now! lets not make this into another "them and us" slinging match

Lots of the things i mentioned occur everywhere not just here, but i honestly believe their respective effect on efficiency is minimised.
Probably in connection with relatively low labour cost here you tend to find 5 or 6 people doing the work of 4. More people = more issues :roll:


Hi Image. I believe it is you who started the 'us and them' slanging match, you may wish to read your post again.

Low labour cost? Compared to whom and compared to where? Malaysia? Thailand? Or are you comparing it to Sweden or Norway, or some other inadequate line of logic?

People here work differently from other countries, perhaps you would also like to mention that Japanese workers tend to stay in the office until 10 pm every day . . . even though they have 'completed' their work hors earlier. Does this make them inefficient?

There are inefficiencies in any system . . . and since you didn't mention where you hail from I can't give you specific examples of what it is like there, but I can guarantee that it is no different in scope, possibly even worse.

It gets tiresome reading all this rubbish about how 'bad. inefficient, slovenly, slow etc . . . ' workers are here when the exact same thing occurs on our home countries.

See, Image, the grass is not greener.



Read the OP's topic ........... "work mentaility HERE!!!!!."

If you want to spiral off on an "oh so predictable" tangent fine. But please read my post properely ...at no point did i compare with any other location. Just made a comment on MY opinion of Asian office practises.
Nothing more and nothing less Dont try to hold me to account for your inssitance on reading between the lines

Cheers

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Postby Vaucluse » Wed, 17 Jun 2009 11:56 am

bigfilsing wrote:
Read the OP's topic ........... "work mentaility HERE!!!!!."

If you want to spiral off on an "oh so predictable" tangent fine. But please read my post properely ...at no point did i compare with any other location.


Hi Image. I did read it properly, just in case you need a refresher:
Welcome to the world of Asian office politics, "face" and general lazy half arsed approach to getting things done.


I guess you Image didn't post anything derogatory, Image, did you . . .

As for the comparison . . . well, quite disingenuous of you Image to deny it.
......................................................



'nuff said Image

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Postby nushk » Wed, 17 Jun 2009 12:44 pm

bigfilsing wrote:You've clearly made a stupid mistake ...silly you.

You've applied logic to your task 8-) and forgotten all the intermediate steps of position and self justification of your colleagues, not to mention allowing them time to claim brownie points for other peoples (your) ideas and hard work.

Welcome to the world of Asian office politics, "face" and general lazy half arsed approach to getting things done.


I find this mildly insulting. had you not added in the last paragraph, it would have been amusing.

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Postby Addadude » Wed, 17 Jun 2009 1:38 pm

To the OP's question: "What's wrong with the work mentality here?"

The answer is nothing's wrong. Just different.

In general I have found that Singaporeans are willing to work hard, work long and not give too much attitude. Quite a refreshing change from other places I have lived and worked.

When it comes to workplace politics - that's one thing that has no international barriers. In fact, in my current company, it is the European staff and managers who are creating most of the politics.

There are certain "peculiarities" in working styles here but they are not gonna change to suit you. So YOU are the one who'll have to adapt.

There are four of these 'peculiarities' that spring instantly to my mind:

The observation that people tend to work unnecessarily late is quite valid. When I was a partner in a small company here about 10 years ago I had frequent arguments with my local partner because he insisted on staff working as late as possible whether or not they had any work to do. I finally got him to admit that it was a 'value for money' thing with him: if we paid someone $1000 dollars (for example) to work 8 hours a day but then got them to work 12 hours a day, we were getting 50% more 'value' from them! Many local bosses and managers feel this way.

If you as a foreigner try to settle a vehement disagreement with a local colleague through a face to face discussion, you'll find that they won't be all that cooperative. You might in fact think the matter is settled only to hear an entirely different version of events from your boss later on after your colleague has gone to complain to him.

Lunchtime is SACRED to the vast majority of Singaporeans. Woe betide the expat manager who forces his local staff to work through their lunch break to meet deadline. They would much rather take their full one hour lunch entitlement (And they DO see it that way) and then come back and rush and stress themselves like crazy afterwards.

Local bosses and managers don't like problems and certainly are not too keen to 'solve' them. In my experience, they usually ignore the problem until it either goes away or solves itself. (It's actually quite surprising how many problems seem to solve themselves!)

Like I said, these things are not necessarily 'wrong' but they are certainly different. Either you can accept it and get on with your job or you can throw your hands in the air and give up. Either way, they won't change anytime soon.
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