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EMPLOYERS BEING UNPROFESSIONAL - Looking for your advise

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vinsebby
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EMPLOYERS BEING UNPROFESSIONAL - Looking for your advise

Postby vinsebby » Thu, 04 Jun 2009 4:51 pm

Dear ALL,

I am DP holder and was recently called in for an interview by a company, they selected me for a Job offer. But after meeting them i was not interested because of few unprofessional rules, They said the following: Pay will be S$2600 per month but i need to return S$1600 once the salary is credited, Which my salary is only S$1000 per month, work timings would be 9am-6pm in offer letter but i need to extend working from 9am-9pm. 1year agreed contract (where i should not leave the employment within a year). Designation was "Recruitment Consultant" but would be doing Sales for the company. I was totally fed up with all their points, even then i asked them to give me one week time to decide. They never gave me the time and asked me to decide immediately so that they wanted to apply for my EP or SPass. Since i filled an application form during my interview (where the informations were regarding my DP visa), even before my acceptance they applied for my Spass and got the approval. They have not even sent a softcopy of the Offer letter till now or nor did i give them any written confirmation saying that i will join them.

The next day, i got interviewed by a different company for a permanent job and they offered S$3000 salary and job is in my expertise as a HR Generalist. Now that my 2nd employer is asking for DP visa details to apply for EP.

The 1st company have already got the Spass approval and when i asked them to cancel, they are threatening me saying "they cannot cancel and i need to join them only otherwise they will pull me to court". I have not collected the IPA letter also from them. They have not given me a offer letter so far. I want to get rid of this company without much problems. I called up MOM in this regard, they asked me to give a written letter about this issue and they will manually cancel it within 14days.

All i wanted to know, does anyone have experienced the same situation. Can the 2nd employer apply for my EP with MOM? When they apply for the EP, will it show that some other company has already applied for my Spass? Will my EP with the 2nd employer not get approved? Does the 1st company have to cancel my EP application online only then my EP with the 2nd company get approved? Pls advise how to handle this?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 04 Jun 2009 6:44 pm

Tell the first company to kiss your arse. They can't sue you. They can't do squat. We apply for S passes all the time. We have employees on S passes who apply with other companies while they work for us and only give us notice when the prospective new employer gets the IPA. Additionally, if you are on a Dependents pass you need even get an S pass or EP. All you really need is a Letter of Consent from MOM (the new employer has to apply for it) There isn't even a levy attached to it (S pass has a $50/mo levy) EP's have not levy at all.

The scam that the company is working is illegal as hell. However, it done by a lot of companies here. Tell them to shove it and if they so much as breath the world "sue" then you will go straight to MOM and lodge a report on what they are doing when trying to hire foreign workers on S passes and underpaying them.

For the record, any employer can enter your FIN number and will be able to tell if you have an approved IPA. But, they cannot tell who the company is. You could have several IPA but they are only IPAs. Approval in Principle. Only one company can have the Pass issued however. Tell the first company to stuff it. It sounds like MOM may have misunderstood you as you don't have to manually cancel anything. Nothing has been issued yet.

Hell, tell them (the first company) they need to give you a Grand just to keep your mouth shut now or you will report THEM to the MOM. :wink: (just kidding)

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Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 04 Jun 2009 6:46 pm

Exactly what SMS said... and just to make clear one thing he said: You don't need an EP or an S pass to work for any company. You only need your DP and the company applies for a letter of consent. Unless you are trying to work in a hawker center or some such, the letter of consent is almost always granted.

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Postby Saint » Thu, 04 Jun 2009 6:55 pm

The wise men of the forum have spoken and they're probably the most experience in these matters so nothing to add except don't worry yourselves over it, you've done nowt wrong :cool:

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Postby vinsebby » Fri, 05 Jun 2009 9:57 am

Thanks to "sundaymorningstaple" and others for your reply. I am Spass - DP holder and not EP. My concern, is that when the 2nd employer applies with MOM for my EP, will it be approved or my application would be kept on hold till the time the 1st company cancels? Cos i was told by MOM that they will keep my 2nd employer application pending till the 1st cancels? Can i go ahead with my 2nd employer and ask them to apply for my EP? Can MOM cancel my Spass approval with the 1st company manually?

Just to update you, how mean the 1st company is: I spoke even yesterday requesting them to cancel. "They say i need to cancel my DP and meet them with a return flight ticket to home country, till then they will not cancel the Spass approval". I'm not sure what this stupid 1st company is upto and i thank god for making me take the right decision of not joining them.

Thank you ALL once again for advising me in this...... Looking forward for your replies.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:14 pm

vinsebby wrote:Thanks to "sundaymorningstaple" and others for your reply. I am Spass - DP holder and not EP. My concern, is that when the 2nd employer applies with MOM for my EP, will it be approved or my application would be kept on hold till the time the 1st company cancels? Cos i was told by MOM that they will keep my 2nd employer application pending till the 1st cancels? Can i go ahead with my 2nd employer and ask them to apply for my EP? Can MOM cancel my Spass approval with the 1st company manually?

Just to update you, how mean the 1st company is: I spoke even yesterday requesting them to cancel. "They say i need to cancel my DP and meet them with a return flight ticket to home country, till then they will not cancel the Spass approval". I'm not sure what this stupid 1st company is upto and i thank god for making me take the right decision of not joining them.

Thank you ALL once again for advising me in this...... Looking forward for your replies.



If you have an "S" Pass issued, you no longer have a DP. DP stands for Dependents Pass. This means your spouse is here in Singapore on an Employment Pass of at least a Q1 EP. There would be no need to have applied for an S pass in the first place if this is the case.

If you ARE on an Dependents Pass then the company is trying to screw you by getting you to cancel your DP and get an S pass issued. It sounds like they are trying to shake you down as they don't have the S pass issued yet. Tell them you are going to MOM and ask them for advice as you are not about to cancel your DP. Also tell them you will tell MOM about what they said about giving salary back as well.

Again, read this slowly. You do not have to cancel anything as nothing as been issued other than IPA's.

The following taken from the MOM website


Change of Employer


S Pass holders must apply for a new S Pass whenever they change employers. There is no need to cancel the existing pass before doing so. Each application will be considered based on the merits of the case.


Therefore, if you have NOT had your S pass issued yet, no need to cancel as there is nothing to cancel yet. You don't even need to cancel it if it was issued. Also, have you been given the "s" pass card? It's also illegal, if issued, for the company to hold the S Pass or your passport as well. So, be sure you don't give it to them.

Only Foreign Domestic Workers (FWD's) are required to have IPA cancelled.

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Postby vinsebby » Mon, 08 Jun 2009 10:56 am

Thank you so much for the clarity "Sundaymorningstaple". This means "the IPA approval letter by the 1st company will not affect my new EP application and the process with the 2nd company" in anyway??. This helps me a lot in moving forward with my 2nd company, I've asked them to process my EP now. I have given a written letter to MOM as well to cancel my IPA with the 1st company. The funny part was, today morning the 1st company sent a sms stating "Your employment pass letter is ready, collect it today and join soon" inspite of already informing them that "i'm not interested", not sure of their mental state.

Thanks once again... i welcome your further advise if i have to do anything.

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Postby blue_thunder » Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:17 am

To clear some air abt the passes...My EP expires by 18th june .I have quit the current company and my last day of work is 28 june. My new employer has applied for a new EP on may 29 and my current employer had applied for extension of my current pass on 4 june. Both the extension and the new pass has been approved by MOM .
So dont worry abt the pass applied by the 1st company . Juz go ahead with the 2nd company.
As SMS & senior members stated, tell the 1st company that you would go to MOM and file a complaint.
This should keep their mouth & arse's shut :shit:


Cheers
~ I don't want to be a product of my environment, I want my environment to be a product of me

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Postby ksl » Mon, 08 Jun 2009 11:48 am

You should also report the first company, to protect others from the same fate!

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 08 Jun 2009 12:47 pm

Just ignore the sms. They are trying their best to trap you out of the natural fear that comes when in a new country and trying to figure out the ropes. You just continue with the new company and follow through there (provided they don't pull any funny business as well).

As ksl mentioned, it would be good to report the 1st employer to MOM but unfortunately, I wouldn't recommend it as you have not joined that company and you have nothing for verification of said claims (they wouldn't dare) so just put if off as a learning experience and be thankful you found your way here. :wink:

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Regarding my EP

Postby Dineshwar » Wed, 10 Jun 2009 8:24 pm

I am also in Same problem. I came from India getting a In priciple approval letter of s pass from a consultancy. They said pay will be around 2000 SGD . Now they are telling they will pay 1400 and I have to pay them 5000 SGD as fee. I said I dont want the job and told them cancell my pass because I got a job by my self in a MNC for 3000 SGD. I got only my IPA from the consultancy and dint collect the s pass from MOM. Will there be any problem if my second company applies for my EP pass. The consultacy is threatening me that they will not allow me to work in Singapore if I dint pay them.

Some one please reply me soon..

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Postby Bafana » Thu, 11 Jun 2009 4:22 am

LOL - Singapore Employers being unprofessional?

This is like a double positive statement.

Where have you been if you don't know this already. Even if your boss is a Singaporean representing a multi national you had better watch out, worst still a Chinese Malaysian (nothing racist in these statements - A generalisation at the most). everything is politically based and sound decisions are often over ruled by revenge, backstabbing and appearing to be right all the time.

Take my advice - treat all employers and fellow workers at arms length. Do your job and remember not to drop anyone in it as the revenge cycle will be long and cold ending with one of you eventually leaving the company.

Over the years I have developed the following saying to sum up the Private Sector mentality is Singapore - "Smiling Tiger - Laughing Dragon".

Meaning all smiles, laughter and friendship on the outside but cool calculated murderous intentions on the inside.

BTW on the Malaysian Chinese issue I also know some gems of people who I trust more than most in life and deal with regularly but I have been so burnt in the past by this sub species of psuedo expats that they are worth a special mention. Especially those in the Construction industry.
Be Like Water

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Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:14 am

I find this kind of amazing. Two people write to tell of attempted illegal rip offs by potential employers. It is clear that the employers are banking on the fact that the potential employee will be ignorant or fearful or will simply do anything to secure a job in the hopes that things will get better.

If we have these two here, how many more are there? The ones who don't have internet access or have not seen this board or others like it? How many have just caved to the essentially 'indentured servitude' offered by the employers?

Can't something be done about this? It seems that changes in the reporting of wages paid could help (like FDW employers needing to file wage reports - or be able to do so).

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Postby Dineshwar » Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:38 am

Guys , Please tell me will there be any problem.

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Postby blue_thunder » Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:46 am

I have a classic example who was in my office until last month..
I got to know this guy through a mutual friend and here goes the story...

Mr.X joined Company Y here in Singapore last year. He was there for about 4-5 months and the salary was low when compared to the market standards.
By early 2009 , he got an offer from my company as a consultant/on contract for 3 years with a better pay. So he had quit & joined my company.
By may he told one of his manager's that want to quit to go back to his home country and did not give any reason about his sudden departure.
Since his manager was a good friend of mine, he asked me to talk to this guy and get his part of the story !!!!
As Mr.X quit Company Y , the company had asked him to bear the travel/training expenses which he had paid off with no regrets.
And the trick starts here, the company Y came back stating that because of Mr.X they had lost the project with the client and he has to bear the loss of 60 grand SGD. Mr.X tried to convince the company to get out of this shit but finally agreed on a sum of SGD 30000/- .
Can you imagine a candidate becoming liable for the loss made by an incumbent company. Not to forget the fact that Mr.X was foolish enough to accept the settlement amount.
They mutually agreed on paying 30K by 10 installments and settle the matter by the end of 2009.
And the story does not end here.
Mr.X was happily paying the company for 4-5 months , thinking that this shit would end soon.
But the company Y came back by May and demanded more money else they threatened him with a lawsuit.
Mr.X did not ask for any help or what so ever from us or any other fellow workers to get some clarity on this issue.
We even advised him to file a complaint with MOM or the cops but he did not want to get into more trouble
So he quit my office and ran back to homeland.....


I know this a long story !!!! so please dont flame me..

Cheers.
~ I don't want to be a product of my environment, I want my environment to be a product of me


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