Singapore Expats Forum

Moving to Singapore - self employed

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35160
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 16 Aug 2009 7:58 pm

The entrepass route is not going to probably be a go'er as it's primary thrust is 'will it a) be profitable venture and more importantly b) will, if successful, it contribute to the economy of Singapore and give Singaporeans employment. If it's just him wanting to work from home, I sincerely doubt it. Of course, nothing is carved in stone here if the $$$'s are right.....

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11108
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 16 Aug 2009 8:14 pm

ksl wrote:
SE:You don't 'get' PR for registering a company. Two totally different processes.

You must be a citizen, PR, or DP to register a business or a company. If you are none of the above, then you must apply for an Entrepass.

Wrong! Include EP holders!


Show me a single line anywhere on the ACRA website that says an EP can register a company or business. Just one reference. You won't find it.

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Sun, 16 Aug 2009 8:25 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
ksl wrote:
SE:You don't 'get' PR for registering a company. Two totally different processes.

You must be a citizen, PR, or DP to register a business or a company. If you are none of the above, then you must apply for an Entrepass.

Wrong! Include EP holders!


Show me a single line anywhere on the ACRA website that says an EP can register a company or business. Just one reference. You won't find it.


I have just posted the link from Acra on doing business in Singapore. The criteria I posted, it states EP now you can hardly be an EP holder residing outside of Singapore!

http://www.acra.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/10C ... gapore.pdf

Now show me a link that excludes EP's from registering a business and appointing a manager!

Besides I know it does exsist because i read it years ago, that the EP holder may not be active in the business, they register.

Business Registration Act: Doesn't appear to exclude anyone, although does mention that a local manager be appointed if the persons are normally non resident, and EP holders I would think come under that category as normally non resident. They can transfer to their own company if the EP is approved, though MOM are also not stupid and controls will certainly be in place to stop any abuse of the system, that is probably why everything is on a case by case application.

http://www.acra.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/640 ... ations.pdf
Last edited by ksl on Sun, 16 Aug 2009 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Sun, 16 Aug 2009 9:46 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:The entrepass route is not going to probably be a go'er as it's primary thrust is 'will it a) be profitable venture and more importantly b) will, if successful, it contribute to the economy of Singapore and give Singaporeans employment. If it's just him wanting to work from home, I sincerely doubt it. Of course, nothing is carved in stone here if the $$$'s are right.....



SMS:Of course, nothing is carved in stone here if the $$$'s are right...
That is true, Moon Sand I would think is more applicable 8-)

1149
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat, 15 Aug 2009

Postby 1149 » Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:10 pm

I am already a PR so just forget about references to Employment Pass and Entrepass. All that is irrelevant to me. I already have PR so can do whatever I want until such time as I need to get my Re-entry Permit (REP) renewed. It is THIS situation I want to get the answer to. If I want to work for myself, what do I need to put in place so that when the time comes, I can get my REP renewed. That is the question.......

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Sun, 16 Aug 2009 10:46 pm

1149 wrote:I am already a PR so just forget about references to EP and Entrepass. All that is irrelevant to me. I already have PR so can do whatever I want until such time as I need to get my Re-entry Permit renewed. It is THIS situation I want to get the answer to. I want to work for myself and get my REP under whatever structure it is that will work for my situation to satisfy renewal of REP. So what will work - that is the question.......
Without knowing what kind of business you want to do from home it is very difficult to give you any advice. First you need to take into account the restrictions of HDB, for doing business from home, secondly you may only want to be self employed, sole proprietor, so that you can document your income on the electronic REP.

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11108
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 17 Aug 2009 9:16 am

ksl wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
ksl wrote:
SE:You don't 'get' PR for registering a company. Two totally different processes.

You must be a citizen, PR, or DP to register a business or a company. If you are none of the above, then you must apply for an Entrepass.

Wrong! Include EP holders!


Show me a single line anywhere on the ACRA website that says an EP can register a company or business. Just one reference. You won't find it.


I have just posted the link from Acra on doing business in Singapore. The criteria I posted, it states EP now you can hardly be an EP holder residing outside of Singapore!

http://www.acra.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/10C ... gapore.pdf

Now show me a link that excludes EP's from registering a business and appointing a manager!

Besides I know it does exsist because i read it years ago, that the EP holder may not be active in the business, they register.

Business Registration Act: Doesn't appear to exclude anyone, although does mention that a local manager be appointed if the persons are normally non resident, and EP holders I would think come under that category as normally non resident. They can transfer to their own company if the EP is approved, though MOM are also not stupid and controls will certainly be in place to stop any abuse of the system, that is probably why everything is on a case by case application.

http://www.acra.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/640 ... ations.pdf


Yes, the slide deck does indeed say 'EP' but if you go to the ACRA website you quickly see that EP refers to 'EntrePass'. I quote:

"A company may have only one director who must be “ordinarily resident in Singapore”

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:22 am

Well the time is 11.16 a.m and I have just spoken to Cliff at Acra on telephone number 6248-6028 who actually confirmed an employment pass holder can register a business, but it must be done through a professional service like a registered legal person. The employment pass holder must remain inactive in the business he starts, because he is already employed and a local manager is to be appointed to run the business. Thank you very much!

Any foreigner outside of Singapore can register a business in singapore, if they follow the same conditions of doing it through a professional service.

They cannot work for their own Company in Singapore, unless MOM approve it.

SE:I would also add that if by your statement, "it states EP now you can hardly be an EP holder residing outside of Singapore" you are implying that you can have an EP and not be resident in Singapore, then you are mistaken.
How on earth does me statement imply that!
It is clear to me, "You can hardly be an EP holder, residing outside of Singapore " Means it is not possible! Now isn't it just fine that you have been telling bullshit for years, and you have the nerve to jump all over me, for making errors!

Like I say I don't know, i keep an open mind, because nothing is black and white, it's all based on case by case.

Although I would believe the EP holder, would only get a transfer to be employed by his own business, if the EP he was holding was terminated.

With regards to Entrepass and business plans, this keeps departments like Spring, Enterprise one, on its bureaucratic pedestal of employing business advisors and development officers to judge business.

The rule is that the EP remains a sleeping partner and is none active in the business because they are employed, and not normally resident, like any other foreigner from abroad, that wants to do business with Singapore, setting up a business I admit doesn't allow them free entry into Singapore, but it does mean, that when the persons EP is terminated, there is nothing at all stopping, his sleeping Company from applying for EP, and like i said MOM is not stupid, but it would be judged on the details at the time of application.
Last edited by ksl on Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11108
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:29 am

ksl wrote:Well the time is 11.16 a.m and I have just spoken to Cliff at Acra on telephone number 6248-6028 who actually confirmed an employment pass holder can register a business, but it must be done through a professional service like a regestered legal person. The employment pass holder must remain inactive in the business he starts, because he is already employed and a local manager is to be appointed to run the business. Thank you very much!

Any foreigner outside of Singapore can register a business in singapore, if they follow the same conditions of doing it through a professional service.

They cannot work for their own Company in Singapore, unless MOM approve it.


So... all they told you is that an EP cannot register the business him/her self but instead must have a legal entity doing the registering.

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:51 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
ksl wrote:Well the time is 11.16 a.m and I have just spoken to Cliff at Acra on telephone number 6248-6028 who actually confirmed an employment pass holder can register a business, but it must be done through a professional service like a registered legal person. The employment pass holder must remain inactive in the business he starts, because he is already employed and a local manager is to be appointed to run the business. Thank you very much!

Any foreigner outside of Singapore can register a business in singapore, if they follow the same conditions of doing it through a professional service.

They cannot work for their own Company in Singapore, unless MOM approve it.

So... all they told you is that an EP cannot register the business him/her self but instead must have a legal entity doing the registering.
Well I'm not in the habit of twisting my words, like you are...You said and EP holder cannot register a business, and you are wrong.
SE:
Strong Eagle wrote:
Allibert wrote:I certainly wasn't any of those when I registered my business, although I was an EP holder at the time


Then you slipped in under the radar. EP holders are not allowed to register a business operating under the assumption that you already have full time employment.
You also say no foreigner can register a business and you are wrong again, that is misleading every single person that is looking for advice, on setting up a business in Singapore.
When it is being done all the time, and yes some are successful with getting employed by their own Companies if the Company is productive., nothing strange about that if its being run by a competent manager

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11108
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 17 Aug 2009 1:53 pm

ksl wrote:You also say no foreigner can register a business and you are wrong again, that is misleading every single person that is looking for advice, on setting up a business in Singapore. When it is being done all the time, and yes some are successful with getting employed by their own Companies if the Company is productive., nothing strange about that if its being run by a competent manager


I am going to follow up on this, ksl. If it were this easy to start a business, one half of the Indian subcontinent would have businesses in Singapore by now.

And, if you can do it this way, what's the point of even having an Entrepass scheme?

I'll be back after a few inquiries.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35160
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 17 Aug 2009 3:24 pm

1149 wrote:I am already a PR so just forget about references to Employment Pass and Entrepass. All that is irrelevant to me. I already have PR so can do whatever I want until such time as I need to get my Re-entry Permit (REP) renewed. It is THIS situation I want to get the answer to. If I want to work for myself, what do I need to put in place so that when the time comes, I can get my REP renewed. That is the question.......


Excuse me, but I think you hijacked the OP's thread ........That is the answer! :P

However, at the end of the day, you will have to be able to provide Singapore Tax Returns at least for the previous 3 years prior to renewal. Unless you can show you are gainfully employed IN SINGAPORE (which means, at the very least a profitable Sole Proprietorship earning sufficient moneys to support yourself here) then it possible that they wouldn't renew your re-entry permit. Providing you are maintaining a residential address here in Singapore where the business is being conducted from (and relevant permissions have been granted from the relevant government bodies) then you shouldn't have any problems. If it's a non-taxable business I would suggest calling IRAS to get a determination as at that point I don't have a clue. But I don't think, after Ren Ci and NKF, non-taxable organizations would not be look upon too favourably. :o

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Mon, 17 Aug 2009 3:27 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
ksl wrote:You also say no foreigner can register a business and you are wrong again, that is misleading every single person that is looking for advice, on setting up a business in Singapore. When it is being done all the time, and yes some are successful with getting employed by their own Companies if the Company is productive., nothing strange about that if its being run by a competent manager


I am going to follow up on this, ksl. If it were this easy to start a business, one half of the Indian subcontinent would have businesses in Singapore by now.

And, if you can do it this way, what's the point of even having an Entrepass scheme?

I'll be back after a few inquiries.


Well that is also appreaciated, I would also like to see it in black and white, becuase I couldn't find it on the website either, although i do recall seeing it several years ago, that the employment pass holder could set up a business, but not work in it, while on EP.

That is also why I posted the telephone number, and the guys name, that i spoke to. His words not mine.

Although the business rules and regulations also state anyone can set up a business, and it doesn't appear to exclude anyone that I can see.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 35160
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 17 Aug 2009 3:36 pm

At the end of the day, even though an EP may (and I say may, as three calls to any government agency will get you 3 different answers on the same day) be able to "register" a company/business here, they cannot operate it or be a director of it or have any control on the running it. If they give up their EP with their current company, the odds are that the EP under their own company will not be granted unless there are already a substantial number of locals being employed (even though there are not any quotas involved with EP holders). This would obviously be in place to avoid abuse of the system by EP holders who already have two other measures in place to help them "stay" here at the moment (PEP and PR). The EntrePass option is there for the non-resident, not present in Singapore person who wants to come in a run his own company. Obviously there will be some businesses that do take off and for that reason, I can see the ability for the business owner (not operator) to apply for an employment pass with his own company and possibly obtain an EP. But, that would be at the whim of the government as they do not have to explain their reasons, as we all know, for rejection of an EP. So, therefore, in my view, both of you are correct but both are splitting hairs due to the terms that have been used in the posts. :wink:

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Mon, 17 Aug 2009 7:05 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:At the end of the day, even though an EP may (and I say may, as three calls to any government agency will get you 3 different answers on the same day) be able to "register" a company/business here, they cannot operate it or be a director of it or have any control on the running it. If they give up their EP with their current company, the odds are that the EP under their own company will not be granted unless there are already a substantial number of locals being employed (even though there are not any quotas involved with EP holders). This would obviously be in place to avoid abuse of the system by EP holders who already have two other measures in place to help them "stay" here at the moment (PEP and PR). The EntrePass option is there for the non-resident, not present in Singapore person who wants to come in a run his own company. Obviously there will be some businesses that do take off and for that reason, I can see the ability for the business owner (not operator) to apply for an employment pass with his own company and possibly obtain an EP. But, that would be at the whim of the government as they do not have to explain their reasons, as we all know, for rejection of an EP. So, therefore, in my view, both of you are correct but both are splitting hairs due to the terms that have been used in the posts. :wink:
SE:Wrong. Only a citizen, PR, or DP can register a business or company
Everything else is common knowledge, and for all the huff & puff it's all back to the same question which was replied to with an incorrect reply for a very long time, all the better if it can be resolved...But my point is not to get too smart about it and loose face in front of everyone, errors are made all the time, although if I am to be jumped on, do it politely :) :wink:

Now the big huff is how can? Isn't it also a possibility that the EP holder must also submit a business plan, for the registration takes effect, I would not think so because an EP is classified as not normally resident. I couldn't find anything that excludes outsiders registering business in Singapore. in Business rules & regulations. who knows? MOM can only stop you residing here to work, they cannot stop you registering a business! That is the main issue.


http://www.business.gov.sg/EN/StartingU ... /index.htm In the ask questions.

If I am holding a valid Employment Pass (EP) at my present job, and wish to start my own business without resigning from my job, must I cancel my existing EP before applying for Approval-In-Principle Employment Pass (AIP-EP) in order to be a business owner-cum-local manager?

No, you will not need to cancel your existing EP. You should proceed to apply for AIP-EP along with a letter of no objection from your current employer. Your AIP EP will be treated as an application for an additional Employment Pass (EP) to work for another company.


If I just want to invest in a business as sole proprietor/partner and leave the running of the business to the manager/other partner(s), do I still need an EntrePass?

If you are not involved in the day-to-day running of the business, you will not need an EntrePass. Please visit the Ministry of Manpower (MOM) website for more details.

You will need to appoint a local person to be your manager. If you need to be in Singapore on an infrequent, short-term basis to follow up on the business development , you will only need to apply for a Visit Pass (Business). For details, please visit the Immigration & Checkpoints Authority (ICA) website.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Careers & Jobs in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests