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Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

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dani2012
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Some myths about tenancy

Postby dani2012 » Fri, 05 Aug 2011 11:58 am

Tenants are the ones to pay for the stamp duty... it is to protect tenants' right in case anything happen.

One very important general misconception is that all tenants have to pay for the commission ==> the fact is that you don't have to pay for comm IF
1. you see the adv (from anywhere) and call the agent, in that case, that agent does not represent you.
2. any agent cannot receive comm from both parties(tenant & landlord) at the same time
I love wall decals and wall stickers http://www.stickers.sg

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written agreement?

Postby farasha » Mon, 22 Aug 2011 7:42 am

At the beginning of the month, we bargained with the landlord and secured a rental rate for the next 2 years (our tenancy agreement expires in the middle of next month). We exchanged a few e-mails on the matter, with him giving us a deadline to decide. We responded in time.

Instead, he decided to delay everything, saying that his own house may go up for en-bloc sale and that he'd need our condo for his own use. Interestingly, the en-bloc 'date' that he told us is the same day as we'd need to sign a new lease.

Now, we're in a fix, as he's said that he won't be able to let us know the length of the contract until the date that we'd actually have to sign it.

My question now is: if it comes down to the date of signing the contract, is he allowed to kick us out since he hasn't given us proper notice? Are we allowed to continue renting the condo at the current rate for 2 extra months while we search for housing?

And... do e-mail interactions count as anything in the legal world?

Thanks,
Farasha

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Re: written agreement?

Postby x9200 » Mon, 22 Aug 2011 8:29 am

farasha wrote:My question now is: if it comes down to the date of signing the contract, is he allowed to kick us out since he hasn't given us proper notice? Are we allowed to continue renting the condo at the current rate for 2 extra months while we search for housing?

And... do e-mail interactions count as anything in the legal world?

Thanks,
Farasha


1. And what the contract says? If this will be at the moment the contract gets expired surely he has the right to reposes his premises without giving you any note. If he can just forcibly remove your stuff and move in is another story.
2. It may count but in this case unlikely. Even lying under such circumstances is not a legal offense. The bottom line - you don't have any agreement, just an exchange of opinions, intentions etc.

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Postby koukanamiya » Fri, 02 Sep 2011 1:46 pm

jjk wrote:Hi SpecialK,

We were told that for rental amounts above S$2,500, landlord will bear the agent fees, regardless if it's 1 yr or 2 yr lease. If it's below S$2,500, then for a 2 yr lease, tenant also have to pay 1 mth's rent as fees. Ours is a 2 yrs and > $2.5k, so....no issue there for us. Only issue is the monthly amount! haha. Even though agent was acting for us, I think our agent had to get a share from the landlord's agent...


Has the cap on the monthly rent been raised since then? The reason I'm asking is that my agent is now telling me that "common" practice in SG is that if monthly rental is less than SGD 4000, tenant pays agent full month's rent as commission if signing two years.

I'm confused because I was told the cap was $2500 (same as what you've written) AND in some cases we won't even need to pay the tenant agent as tenant agent co-broke with the landlord agent and hence they split the commission amongst themselves.

Any help in this would be appreciated. I'm looking at signing a two year lease (rental price at $3400/mth) and if I have to pay the agent a full month's rent for commission, that's forking out 3 months rent at one go.

In this case, anything I can do to ensure I don't get ripped off by my own agent?

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Postby koukanamiya » Mon, 05 Sep 2011 11:09 am

Hello,

Quick question about Tenancy Agreement. So my agreement also has the rent broken down except in my case, in addition to breaking it down by so-called monthly rental and furniture, there's $200 for monthly maintenance fee. On top of that, they are asking me to pay for A/C maintenance quarterly. So my question here is that technically speaking, wouldn't $200 monthly maintenance fee supposedly cover things like A/c?

My agent said the landlord is doing this as monthly rental affects the property taxes they have to pay (this is Attitude at Kim Yam Rd). But it's not my problem if they have to pay property tax and it's pretty dishonest in my opinion, to do it this way. Agent said this is standard practice? Help please? Thanks.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 05 Sep 2011 11:39 am

Either you sign it, or you don't. If you don't like the terms, you are free to find another place or another LL more to your liking. They can set most any terms they like, it's up to you whether you buy or not.

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 05 Sep 2011 11:59 am

koukanamiya wrote:Hello,

Quick question about Tenancy Agreement. So my agreement also has the rent broken down except in my case, in addition to breaking it down by so-called monthly rental and furniture, there's $200 for monthly maintenance fee. On top of that, they are asking me to pay for A/C maintenance quarterly. So my question here is that technically speaking, wouldn't $200 monthly maintenance fee supposedly cover things like A/c?

My agent said the landlord is doing this as monthly rental affects the property taxes they have to pay (this is Attitude at Kim Yam Rd). But it's not my problem if they have to pay property tax and it's pretty dishonest in my opinion, to do it this way. Agent said this is standard practice? Help please? Thanks.


They're just presenting it this way for best tax efficiency for the landlord (wouldn't you?). It is standard practice.

Maintenance is contribution to the cost of upkeep of the common parts of the condo. Air-con, well that's the landlords own private property so clearly they are separate matters.

The gross amount is 'the rent'. Either you decide to pay it or not. If you wish to negotiate negotiate this gross figure. Niggling on the detail of it's presented break-down is really not of your concern and has no mileage in it.

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Postby koukanamiya » Mon, 05 Sep 2011 12:18 pm

JR8 wrote:They're just presenting it this way for best tax efficiency for the landlord (wouldn't you?). It is standard practice.


Depends on whether presenting it this way is legal (doesn't seem so but what do I know?). Just figure if LL isn't honest, there may be issues down the road later (i.e. if they refuse to pay back deposit or the sorts, which is pretty legitimate concerns).

JR8 wrote: Maintenance is contribution to the cost of upkeep of the common parts of the condo. Air-con, well that's the landlords own private property so clearly they are separate matters.

The gross amount is 'the rent'. Either you decide to pay it or not. If you wish to negotiate negotiate this gross figure. Niggling on the detail of it's presented break-down is really not of your concern and has no mileage in it.


Thanks for the clarifications on the maintenance issue, so it's pretty much like the HOA fees in the States, makes sense.

Anyway, got ripped off pretty badly last time I was here so am trying to research everything and get feedback from the experts this time around.

Thanks.

Reasons for edit: HTML code issue and add'l notes
Last edited by koukanamiya on Mon, 05 Sep 2011 12:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: written agreement?

Postby JR8 » Mon, 05 Sep 2011 12:19 pm

farasha wrote:At the beginning of the month, we bargained with the landlord and secured a rental rate for the next 2 years (our tenancy agreement expires in the middle of next month). We exchanged a few e-mails on the matter, with him giving us a deadline to decide. We responded in time.

Instead, he decided to delay everything, saying that his own house may go up for en-bloc sale and that he'd need our condo for his own use. Interestingly, the en-bloc 'date' that he told us is the same day as we'd need to sign a new lease.

Now, we're in a fix, as he's said that he won't be able to let us know the length of the contract until the date that we'd actually have to sign it.

My question now is: if it comes down to the date of signing the contract, is he allowed to kick us out since he hasn't given us proper notice? Are we allowed to continue renting the condo at the current rate for 2 extra months while we search for housing?

And... do e-mail interactions count as anything in the legal world?

Thanks,
Farasha


Under property law in England & Wales -

- in such circumstances the existing tenancy agreement would automatically roll over into what is known as a Periodic Statutory Tenancy. That is a month-to-month tenancy that continues on the same terms as was in the previously signed tenancy agreement. No paperwork needs to be issued or signed, it automatically comes into effect.
[I'm a UK landlord, and have tenants who started on a 1 year tenancy agreements, that have now rolled via a PST for a decade and more].

- the landlord cannot just expect you to walk out on a day of his choosing post the expiry of any signed tenancy agreement without proper notice (per the TA) being served.

- yes the exchange of e-mails can form a contract.

Please note: Please note that this is the 'Law of England & Wales'. And though SG law is based quite closely on it, it does not mean it is also SG law. Rather I hope it gives you some idea as to what spirit and the intention of the law is, i.e. that the tenant cannot just be completely rolled over.

p.s. From what you say it sounds odds-on your landlord is holding out to see if he can get a higher rent than that from you (apparently a typically SGn trait). Have you tried googling to see if your unit is still being advertised? In any case, your priority would be to determine how the notice clause applies on an expired tenancy agreement under SG law.

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Postby econtse » Sat, 10 Sep 2011 11:11 am

Hi, I would be appreciated if some of you can give me advice on my case.

I am staying in my current room in commonwealth for almost 4 months. It is a HDB flat and the owner is also staying in the flat. The problem is we haven't signed a contract. On my move in day, He gave me 2 receipts, 1 for 1st month rental payment and 1 for the security deposit.

I gave him 1 month notice on 3rd of Sept, telling him I will move out on 2nd Oct. Our usual billing cycle for the rent is on 11st every month. Last night, he asked me to pay the rent up to 11st Oct instead of my move out date 2nd Oct. And he said he will give me the refund. I have no idea what the point for him to keep this extra money which he's not supposed to keep.

Honestly, I don't trust him at all. He keeps adding his rule on me since I move in. I am worry he won't return my security deposit even I keep the room in good condition.

Should I pay the rent up to 11st Oct instead of 2nd Oct?

What should I do if he refused to return me the security deposit and the rental refund (2nd Oct to 11st Oct)?

My feeling is, there's really no protection to tenant in Singapore at all, especially for foreigner. I would rather stay in Changi prison if they are open for rental instead of staying with a crap owner who treat himself as the King of his flat and deprive the right of his tenant and adding new stupid rule to enslave his tenant.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 10 Sep 2011 11:21 am

Please do not spam the board with identical posts. The other duplicate posts have been deleted. - moderator

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Postby JR8 » Sat, 10 Sep 2011 11:37 am

It's messy. You have no contract, why?
Also, you don't pay rent parallel with the periodicity of your tenancy.

You have to pay rent to the expiry of the term. But that said the landlord can't charge you for further periods and you have to expect some form of 'refund'.

The deposit is just that. You have to proceed with the assumption that it will be held for the stated reasons and returned. If not you take him to court.


p.s. Scratching head, but, how did you rent a place and have no rental agreement? :???:

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Postby econtse » Sat, 10 Sep 2011 11:56 am

Thanks JR8

I know it's my bad to not requesting to sign a contract with the landlord. It is because I was asked to relocate to spore within just 2 days notice and I was afraid the landlord won't let me to move in if I troubled him with all the paper work.

Sorry for one more question, will it be helpful if I asked my landlord to give me a rental payment receipt by mentioning it's for Sept rental payment with refund for the period of 2nd Oct to 11st Oct? I think it may be useful when I get him to the Small Claim Tribunal.

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Postby x9200 » Sat, 10 Sep 2011 12:12 pm

econtse wrote:Thanks JR8

I know it's my bad to not requesting to sign a contract with the landlord. It is because I was asked to relocate to Singapore within just 2 days notice and I was afraid the landlord won't let me to move in if I troubled him with all the paper work.


You will not get any residence permit within two days and it is illegal to rent an apartment/flat without it so what is really your story?

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Postby econtse » Sat, 10 Sep 2011 12:22 pm

Hi X9200

Honestly, I have no idea on what's the residence permit. On 9 June, my job agent told me my application for employment pass was approved.

On 11 June, I came over to Singapore in Social Visitor Status and move into my current apartment. Please note that I don't have my Employment Pass at that time.

On 13 June, my 1st day in my new employer. I got my IPA (In-principle Approval) of my Employment Pass from my job agent. I went to MoM in upper circular road to hand over my passport with my IPA letter for my EP.

Once I got my EP card on 21 June. I gave a copy of my EP + passport to my landlord.

That's the whole story. What's a residence permit? EP card won't allow me to rent a place in spore? :???:


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