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Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

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unbelievable1981
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby unbelievable1981 » Tue, 18 Apr 2017 8:50 pm

PNGMK wrote:Fair wear and tear but depending on the floor material (is that stone or tile?) it may buff out. Floors are problematic here - some LL put down marble, which while it can be recut, damaged easily. Others put tiles which means one chipped tile can lead to an entire floor being relaid. Either way should be treated place that has fair wear and tear meaning that every 10/20 years or so it needs to be relaid.

Thanks for the insight PNGMK!
Yeh that is marble... Lesson learnt because it is impossible to keep clean.
From what I can find should only be a few dollars per square metre of what needs to be repaired. LL is trying to go for the full floor polishing, which is incredibly expensive.
Hopefully someone else can share their experience or knowledge on how to handle such LLs.

unbelievable1981
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby unbelievable1981 » Tue, 18 Apr 2017 9:05 pm

Straight from the Small Claims Tribunal's "A Guide To Tenancy Disputes":
"At the end of the tenancy, the tenant is expected to return the premises to the
landlord. However, it is unreasonable to expect no changes to the premises after
living there for some time. Hence, the tenancy agreement usually provides that the tenant only has to return the premises close to the original condition. The term used in the tenancy agreement for example, may be “excluding reasonable wear and tear” or “fair wear and tear excepted”. This refers to the damage that occurs as a result of reasonable usage or normal aging.
This means it is not reasonable for the landlord to insist on the tenant paying for
example, replacing the door, repainting the whole house or re-tiling the whole floor because of a few scratches due to normal usage or aging.
Whether the damage is fair wear or tear will depend on the facts of the case,
including the age or condition of the item and the expected usage over time"

While the last sentence is not so nice due to age, rest is in my favour. I'll inform Agent to set expectations with LL correctly.

PNGMK
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby PNGMK » Wed, 19 Apr 2017 8:30 am

unbelievable1981 wrote:Straight from the Small Claims Tribunal's "A Guide To Tenancy Disputes":
"At the end of the tenancy, the tenant is expected to return the premises to the
landlord. However, it is unreasonable to expect no changes to the premises after
living there for some time. Hence, the tenancy agreement usually provides that the tenant only has to return the premises close to the original condition. The term used in the tenancy agreement for example, may be “excluding reasonable wear and tear” or “fair wear and tear excepted”. This refers to the damage that occurs as a result of reasonable usage or normal aging.
This means it is not reasonable for the landlord to insist on the tenant paying for
example, replacing the door, repainting the whole house or re-tiling the whole floor because of a few scratches due to normal usage or aging.
Whether the damage is fair wear or tear will depend on the facts of the case,
including the age or condition of the item and the expected usage over time"

While the last sentence is not so nice due to age, rest is in my favour. I'll inform Agent to set expectations with LL correctly.


Well there you are; you've helped yourself. Please post a link to the guide for others. Being able to quote ad infinitum and verbatim from an actual source is a good way to bloody the noses of these rapacious bastards.


Edit: What you might want to think about is whether any of those marks are damage from moving furniture / white goods in or out of the condo. I would personally not consider that fair wear and tear but damage caused by negligence.
I have gay, black, Asian friends and then JR8.

unbelievable1981
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby unbelievable1981 » Wed, 19 Apr 2017 8:40 am

PNGMK wrote:
Well there you are; you've helped yourself. Please post a link to the guide for others. Being able to quote ad infinitum and verbatim from an actual source is a good way to bloody the noses of these rapacious bastards.


Edit: What you might want to think about is whether any of those marks are damage from moving furniture / white goods in or out of the condo. I would personally not consider that fair wear and tear but damage caused by negligence.


Thanks!
Of course:
https://www.statecourts.gov.sg/SmallCla ... oolkit.pdf
Review section 10 at the bottom.

Yeh agreed with your edit. There is no way to prove when or how those marks were made. The LL says they were not there in the beginning. However I'm willing to negotiate a 50/50.
What is not fair is the LL demanding the entire floor be polished, looking at $2K+ for a small unit.

JustSee
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby JustSee » Sat, 29 Apr 2017 8:46 pm

Whoa, this took me hours to read!
Thought it would be nice to add the TA made by CASE:
https://www.case.org.sg/pdf/Model%20Ten ... eement.pdf

Sorry if it has been posted here earlier, of course amendments to the file should be made on case-by-case basis.

unbelievable1981
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby unbelievable1981 » Tue, 02 May 2017 6:20 pm

JustSee wrote:Whoa, this took me hours to read!
Thought it would be nice to add the TA made by CASE:
https://www.case.org.sg/pdf/Model%20Ten ... eement.pdf

Sorry if it has been posted here earlier, of course amendments to the file should be made on case-by-case basis.


Great thanks! This one is for HDB though. Suppose you didn't find anything for private housing?

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby JustSee » Tue, 02 May 2017 8:10 pm

Can always remove the HDB portions that are not relevant...

xavier_gil
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby xavier_gil » Thu, 04 May 2017 1:37 pm

Need an advice.
my tenancy agreement will be end on June 2017. My sister would like to renew the tenancy, but this involved 2 agent. We are dealing with 1 agent which we deal before on this TA, and LL Agent.

But now we wanted to renew our TA, our agent told us we need to pay renewal fees. (Rental x 0.75 = Renewal Fees), as i can see in our agreement. There is no any renewal fees applied in contract.

This is the clause sentence i noted.
Option to Renew
The Landlord shall on the written request of the Tenant made not less than 2 calendar month before the expiration of the Term and if at the time of such request there are no existing breaches or non-observation of any covenants and condition in this agreement on the part of the tenant, grant to the tenant a tenancy of the premises for the further term of 18 month from the expiry of the term based on the same covenants and conditions in this agreement and at a rent to be mutually agreed upon and subject to prevailing market rate at the time of renewal, except for this present covenant for renewal.

Never stated ant renewal fees. We never meet LL agent or LL before. But occasional LL collect letter at mailbox

Can i check owner information with HDB and contact LL? Any advice here?
Thank you

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x9200
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby x9200 » Thu, 04 May 2017 2:50 pm

How your TA defines the means of contact with the LL? There should be a clause saying what is considered to be sufficiently served (notice).
I am not sure if you can force anybody to reveal the address of your LL.
IMHO you have two options:
1) contact Council for Estate Agencies (CEA) and ask if the request of the agent is legal (ethical) following which (assuming "no") you may have some points in ongoing discussion.
2) if you pay directly rental to the LL, write a note along with the transfered money requesting her/him to contact you directly. If lucky, he may notice it and be curious enough to respond.

JustSee
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby JustSee » Thu, 04 May 2017 2:50 pm

You can reach out to the LL, but that most likely will not be met well from LL perspective or his/her agent.

What did you sign with your agent? If you had a signed contract with your agent that states you pay commission upon renewal, then you have to pay the agent commission.
Your option to renew does not state any renewal fees to LL agent nor to yours (however there might be another piece of paper you signed)

JustSee
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby JustSee » Thu, 04 May 2017 2:52 pm

x9200 wrote:How your TA defines the means of contact with the LL? There should be a clause saying what is considered to be sufficiently served (notice).
I am not sure if you can force anybody to reveal the address of your LL.
There are gov services to find that out, but that's one of the reasons I had a TA fall apart, as for some reason the LL was too paranoid to write her address on the lease.
IMHO you have two options:
1) contact Council for Estate Agencies (CEA) and ask if the request of the agent is legal (ethical) following which (assuming "no") you may have some points in ongoing discussion.
2) if you pay directly rental to the LL, write a note along with the transfered money requesting her/him to contact you directly. If lucky, he may notice it and be curious enough to respond.

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x9200
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby x9200 » Thu, 04 May 2017 3:02 pm

The LL may simply not wish to be contacted. Unless there is some specific law regulating this, I don't think there is a body that can reveal such information. The problem is, whether the LL wants or doesn't to b contacted is impossible to verify without contacting her or him.

JustSee
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby JustSee » Thu, 04 May 2017 3:13 pm

Can find the address from here: https://www.sla.gov.sg/inlis/
Cost about $5

xavier_gil
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby xavier_gil » Thu, 04 May 2017 3:16 pm

thanks for replying.

we did not sign any other document, only 2 copy of same document.
Only stated the 1st year in TA contract regarding the commission fees in the document.
Renewal commission fees do not have the clause on it.

My sis company warehouse rental TA, do have stated the renewal contract for the agent fees.

That's why we take out the document and read on it. Sound fishy with the agent, we deal that agent i not able to find out his CEA registration in CEA website. LL agent i able to find it.

JustSee
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby JustSee » Thu, 04 May 2017 3:18 pm

xavier_gil wrote:thanks for replying.

we did not sign any other document, only 2 copy of same document.
Only stated the 1st year in TA contract regarding the commission fees in the document.
Renewal commission fees do not have the clause on it.

My sis company warehouse rental TA, do have stated the renewal contract for the agent fees.

That's why we take out the document and read on it. Sound fishy with the agent, we deal that agent i not able to find out his CEA registration in CEA website. LL agent i able to find it.


Give CEA a call then and raise your concern, you'll get the best answer from them.


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