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Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

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joiedevivre22
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby joiedevivre22 » Mon, 30 Mar 2015 3:32 pm

I agree. Don't be the nice person to them. I think you must stop trying to sort this out and certainly not pay up.

There's no way you can be stopped in immigration for this.

Good luck.

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby JR8 » Tue, 31 Mar 2015 5:33 pm

BigHunt wrote: I've informed the LL through the agent (I dont have any phone number of email address of the LL, everything is kept by the LL agent)


joiedevivre22 wrote: You know, this is a pain. You can't even sue the LL (if you have to) without their address.


Surely an adequate Notice is served if it is served on the agent, as landlord's representative, and it is the agent's duty to forward it? I can't imagine a legitimate Tenancy Agreement where there is no means to serve Notice on the landlord. Looking at it another way, if a landlord has an agent as his representative, then there should be no need to ever contact the landlord directly, and in my experience the landlord might get annoyed if you do, since he pays the agent to deal with such matters on his behalf.

--- I was just checking our own TA in this regard, and am reminded that we have our own rather unexpected structure. The landlord's address is given as our address. This is despite the LL not living in the country, us letting the entire unit, and us never having met her. [This might tie with IRAS apparently constantly being on her case via post to our address]. So, it would seem, if I wished to take action against our LL I could serve Notice on her at this/our address... then what, I get summary Judgement my way come the hearing, as the LL will not have received the Notice, and so will not present themselves? .... [not that it matters now, but it is mighty curious].
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

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x9200
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby x9200 » Tue, 31 Mar 2015 7:12 pm

TheBigHunt wrote:To x9200 and joiedevivre
Thanks both for your replies.
I've been quite busy today to try to sort out this bothering story.
To be short:
- I've met 3 different lawyer to be sure about what can be done.
They all advise me to cut and run.
For many reasons, the cost of a case, the fact the I'll let the deposit, etc, they all advise me to do not continue.
They also told me that I can't be arrested at the border as it's not a crime case but a civil one.
To be fair, one of them advise me to do a last try to negotiate but in case it doesn't work, I'll have all the proof to show that I've done all my possible to find a good win win arrangement.
I'll update the forum of what will happening.
Thanks a lot

You have already done something more than negotiation - you actively tried to address the possible LL's loses what, if the LL acted reasonably, would end up in a happy end.

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Re:

Postby missfong02 » Thu, 02 Jul 2015 8:16 pm

mofobro wrote:
macaroonie wrote:MOFOBRO - gosh that's a bit tough! what's your story? they got you real bad?


Sorry for the delayed reply... no they havent yet... but we move the end of August and I'll let you know. I've heard so many horror stories from my friends, you kinda want to load up on a 1 kilo tub of vasoline before you go thru the process. Been here 9 years and I think Singaporeans in general are the greediest, most arrogant, yet ignorant bunch of mofo's I've ever encountered anywhere in the world. They cant even walk down the freakin' street without bumping into you.. no street etiquate (sri but no spell check!), can barely park a Subaru in a space big enough for an 18 wheeler, rant and rave privately about Mr Big and Little big, yet when they walk up to the ballot box, they sheepishly cast their ballot for the home team, etc etc etc...Need I go on??


So this is a couple of years late...but i couldn't agree more.

It would seem time has just worsened the situation and I wish I had known all of this before making the move. I am now currently dealing with a self entitled irrational and unreasonable landlord who thinks booking deposits are free money. I dont understand given the number of scams and issues between tenants and landlords that the government refuses step in and do something about it, other than the fact that Singaporeans are a people who have no sense of ownership, accountability or responsibility.

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby sanjivvohra » Wed, 22 Jul 2015 3:08 pm

Landlords and tenants, what can be said? They are both bad ones and good ones.
The first one we had was a landlord from hell, but the agent he hired was good, so we had no problem TILL we were leaving (changing houses in SG). There was a long list of faults. Fair enough. Hired a handyman and got every thing done (including "before" and "after" pics). Took us another 4 months to get our deposit back, and only when I threatened to go to court.
Fast forward 2 years, the new landlord and we agreed on a mutual renewal in about 5 minutes phone call. He was engaging and helpful during the lease term and we were communicating one-on-one, with mutual respect. On renewal, the agents (both his and mine) popped up and wanted their pound of flesh, for doing, really, no work at all, either during the lease term or during negotiations for renewal!
Unfortunately, the LL had to pay them since it was part of the TA terms, but seemed unfair.
Sanjiv

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Potential rental loss of $1,500 (for the next 5 months as the rental pricing has fallen due to market conditions).

Postby kleinhev » Wed, 07 Oct 2015 10:32 am

We are about to leave SIN after staying in a HDB flat for 18 months (total contract period: 24 months). Besides a 1-month security deposit and the pro-rated landlord agency fee which seems fine, he wants us to pay:

"Potential rental loss of $1,500 (for the next 5 months as the rental pricing has fallen due to market conditions)."

Is that in any way legal in SIN? I was thinking to get this in writing with signature so that I can send this to a lawyer or any other organization protecting the rights of tenants in SIN.

Any suggestions?

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 07 Oct 2015 10:45 am

I'd say you are pretty lucky unless you are exercising a legitimate diplomatic clause. Otherwise you wouĺd be loable for the full rental till the end of the lease.

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Re: Potential rental loss of $1,500 (for the next 5 months as the rental pricing has fallen due to market conditions).

Postby the lynx » Wed, 07 Oct 2015 10:56 am

kleinhev wrote:We are about to leave SIN after staying in a HDB flat for 18 months (total contract period: 24 months). Besides a 1-month security deposit and the pro-rated landlord agency fee which seems fine, he wants us to pay:

"Potential rental loss of $1,500 (for the next 5 months as the rental pricing has fallen due to market conditions)."

Is that in any way legal in SIN? I was thinking to get this in writing with signature so that I can send this to a lawyer or any other organization protecting the rights of tenants in SIN.

Any suggestions?


I would agree with SMS. According to tenancy agreement, you're expected to pay for the remaining 6 months' rental. The fact he is asking for only SGD1500 shows that he is very kind. Most landlords would find all means possible to squeeze more than that 6-month rental + agent fees + security deposit combined.

Do you have diplomatic clause in your contract that would exempt you from paying any amount?

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby kleinhev » Wed, 07 Oct 2015 10:57 am

We are exercising the diplomatic cause. Of the two months notice period we will only live 1 month in the flat but I agree with paying for the second month (from the security deposit).

The "Potential rental loss" payment is, however, beyond my comprehension.

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby x9200 » Wed, 07 Oct 2015 11:06 am

What is precisely in this diplomatic clause?

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby kleinhev » Wed, 07 Oct 2015 11:14 am

"(i) Notwithstanding anything herein contained, if at any time after the expiration of twelve (12) months from the date of the commencement of this tenancy, the immediate occupant of the said premises shall be transferred out of the Republic of Singapore permanently by his organisation, then and in such a case, it shall be lawful for the Tenant to determine this tenancy by giving not less than TWO ( 2 ) months' advance notice (this is in addition to the twelve (12) months aforesaid) in writing to the Landlord or by paying TWO ( 2 ) months' rent in lieu of such notice. Documentary evidence of such transfer or cessation shall be required and such notice shall be deemed to have commenced on such date as the Landlord shall have actually received such evidence."

We gave notice at the end of September and have to leave SIN by the end of October. We payed rent for Oct and the rent for Nov the LL can take from the security deposit.

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby x9200 » Wed, 07 Oct 2015 11:22 am

Based on the clause, I don't think you should pay the LL anything if you paid (going to pay) the 12+2 rent (assuming the note was served right after the 12 month period). You are going to terminate the agreement according to this clause and I don't see anything in this clause obliging you to pay the prorated commission or anything else. Or there is some other one dealing with early termination?

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 07 Oct 2015 11:24 am

^^ I Agree.

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby kleinhev » Wed, 07 Oct 2015 11:37 am

The "refund of commission" mentioned in the contract:

((ii) If this Agreement should be lawfully terminated by notice in writing by the Tenant before the expiry of the tenancy herein as aforesaid, the Tenant shall reimburse to the Landlord, in respect of the unexpired portion of the tenancy, a proportionate part of the commission, inclusive of Goods and Services Tax, paid by the Landlord to his real estate agent. The Landlord shall be entitled to deduct such refund from the deposit held by the Landlord."

and we agree to pay this.
Last edited by kleinhev on Wed, 07 Oct 2015 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby the lynx » Wed, 07 Oct 2015 11:42 am

kleinhev wrote:The "refund of commission" mentioned in the contract:

((ii) If this Agreement should be lawfully terminated by notice in writing by the Tenant before the expiry of the tenancy herein as aforesaid, the Tenant shall reimburse to the Landlord, in respect of the unexpired portion of the tenancy, a proportionate part of the commission, inclusive of Goods and Services Tax, paid by the Landlord to his real estate agent, ERA Realty Network Pte Ltd. The Landlord shall be entitled to deduct such refund from the deposit held by the Landlord."

and we agree to pay this.


Then I can't see why you should pay more than what's already stipulated in your contract. Perhaps your landlord needs to be reminded about the tenancy agreement.


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