Singapore Expats Forum

Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Discuss about life in Singapore. Ask about cost of living, housing, travel, etiquette & lifestyle. Share experience & advice with Singaporeans & expat staying in Singapore.

Sponsored by:
Image
AE Logistics - Movers & Storage

PNGMK
Director
Director
Posts: 4852
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013

Postby PNGMK » Sun, 12 Oct 2014 8:13 pm

If you signed the last lease renewal with your landlord direct then in some ways you have it easier. You can negotiate a reasonable departure... bearing in mind as others have said that legally he holds the cards.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Sun, 12 Oct 2014 8:17 pm

PNGMK wrote:If you signed the last lease renewal with your landlord direct then in some ways you have it easier. You can negotiate a reasonable departure... bearing in mind as others have said that legally he holds the cards.


The LL 'holds the cards' ONLY if you wish to trash your agreement and seek a way out.

Big difference. Otherwise it's equitable and protected via recourse to court by either party.

AussieSkater
Member
Member
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon, 20 Oct 2008
Location: Singapore

Postby AussieSkater » Sun, 12 Oct 2014 9:33 pm

The LL has always been reasonable and really nice to us, he has given us gift baskets for Christmas and kept the rent just below market rates as he didn't want us to leave. Mind you he hasn't had to supply one bit of furniture or do any repairs to the place, so we have been what I would call "ideal" tenants and he a great LL.

We are only moving because of school location and know that we will have to pay a fair bit more in rent. We will contact him and see what he says, hopefully he will be just as nice as he has been for the last 5 years, will let you know the outcome.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Mon, 13 Oct 2014 8:08 am

AussieSkater wrote:The LL has always been reasonable and really nice to us, he has given us gift baskets for Christmas and kept the rent just below market rates as he didn't want us to leave. Mind you he hasn't had to supply one bit of furniture or do any repairs to the place, so we have been what I would call "ideal" tenants and he a great LL.

We are only moving because of school location and know that we will have to pay a fair bit more in rent. We will contact him and see what he says, hopefully he will be just as nice as he has been for the last 5 years, will let you know the outcome.


Wonderful, if only experiences such as yours were more common!

I would continue in the same cooperative fashion as far as possible. When you speak to him explain the circumstances and see how you can best work together for him to get the place relet. That might be how and when 'viewings' are carried out. You could also consider placing a small-ad here and finding your own replacement (which if it came together might make the LLs tenant hand-over seamless). Don't know, but I expect you can see the direction of my thinking...

amarettoSour
Regular
Regular
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed, 21 Oct 2009

Postby amarettoSour » Mon, 13 Oct 2014 8:12 am

Ugh i wish i read and knew about this hread before. As you know from previous post i broke my lease due to mold issue and had to pay prorated agent fee. Now landlord is trying to deduct things from us, claiming some things are broken (like magnet behind door stopper). The condo was built in 1995, never renovated and from our experience the landlord does not care about the condo at all, so of course things are going to deteriorate overtime!

The most ridiculous one is that the glass on kitchen cabinet was put up by blutack, and one day it fell as my roommate opened the cabinet. Thankfully she caught it so the glass did not break or fall over our head. Since it didn't cause too much problem we just set the glass aside and left the kitchen cabinet without glass. Naive me did not think to complain or take pictures. Now that we are moving out, agent is acting all angry and telling me the glass was not held by blutack. I have no evidence, but i have good record of not lying. And besides why the hell would I lie about ridiculous thing like that? The glass wasnt broken so it wasn't like i just took off the glass one day and decided to stick some blutack on it.

Now our new apartment is much better but we are way more careful about documenting things when we moved in...

Rant over

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Mon, 13 Oct 2014 9:18 am

amarettoSour wrote:Now our new apartment is much better but we are way more careful about documenting things when we moved in...


It's standard operating procedure to together with the LL and/or agent confirm the inventory and condition, item by item, at the point of moving in.

If you don't do that, you leave yourself wiiiiide open to arguments and getting hit with unwarranted damages.

amarettoSour
Regular
Regular
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed, 21 Oct 2009

Postby amarettoSour » Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:23 am

We did go through the usual fixture check, but it was impossible to notice little things like the glass being held by blutack (we only noticed this after moving in and when the glass fell). I didn't really like being agressive but now i know why it's important to complain as soon as issues arise... Especially now she accused me of lying.

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Postby JR8 » Mon, 13 Oct 2014 10:29 am

amarettoSour wrote:We did go through the usual fixture check, but it was impossible to notice little things like the glass being held by blutack (we only noticed this after moving in and when the glass fell). I didn't really like being agressive but now i know why it's important to complain as soon as issues arise... Especially now she accused me of lying.


OIC. If I were you I'd just have put it back in, but ensured it was secure in place (for your own safety).

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9164
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009
Location: Singapore

Postby x9200 » Mon, 13 Oct 2014 11:35 am

amarettoSour wrote:We did go through the usual fixture check, but it was impossible to notice little things like the glass being held by blutack (we only noticed this after moving in and when the glass fell). I didn't really like being agressive but now i know why it's important to complain as soon as issues arise... Especially now she accused me of lying.

I routinely and methodically document the condition of the whole apartment at the time it is handed over to me. It typically takes 100-200 hi resolution photos so later on I can go back and see if something was there or not.

As of your blutack problem and giving your LL some credit, she might have not been aware of this. I guess there were some tenants before you moved in and they just might have had "fix" the glass before they left.
On the other hand, your duty as a tenant was to fix it properly (or inform the LL at least about the problem) after it got broken. That's what is typically said in an average TA. Bad luck on your side, but being in the middle of dispute with the LL because of your early TA termination you should be extra careful to leave everything in the same condition you took it over.

amarettoSour
Regular
Regular
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed, 21 Oct 2009

Postby amarettoSour » Mon, 13 Oct 2014 1:17 pm

Yeah i totally agree, i was being too careless/inexperienced at the time. Before this I was used to renting apartment in the states where you deal with an actual property management who will fix up the units before handing over, instead of dealing with individual owners in singapore where mileage varies.

In my blutack case - if it's the case of handing over like how it was given to me then i can just put i back up with blutack - but it will endanger the future tenant.... What if they have children? I don't think it's righ and I think landlord should be fixing this issue. But i probably have to suck it up anyway.

Definitely lots of lessons learned the hard way with this apartment.

AussieSkater
Member
Member
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon, 20 Oct 2008
Location: Singapore

Postby AussieSkater » Fri, 17 Oct 2014 6:06 pm

JR8 wrote:
AussieSkater wrote:The LL has always been reasonable and really nice to us, he has given us gift baskets for Christmas and kept the rent just below market rates as he didn't want us to leave. Mind you he hasn't had to supply one bit of furniture or do any repairs to the place, so we have been what I would call "ideal" tenants and he a great LL.

We are only moving because of school location and know that we will have to pay a fair bit more in rent. We will contact him and see what he says, hopefully he will be just as nice as he has been for the last 5 years, will let you know the outcome.


Wonderful, if only experiences such as yours were more common!

I would continue in the same cooperative fashion as far as possible. When you speak to him explain the circumstances and see how you can best work together for him to get the place relet. That might be how and when 'viewings' are carried out. You could also consider placing a small-ad here and finding your own replacement (which if it came together might make the LLs tenant hand-over seamless). Don't know, but I expect you can see the direction of my thinking...


Well we sent an email to the LL asking if we could leave 2 months early, he appeared to be ok with it initially, then he came over to our place and bought his agent in, who basically talked him out of it. The agent went on about the fact that the market was flat and he would find it difficult to find someone and then the LL offered to drop the rent by $200-$300 for us to stay and said we could use the savings to pay for cabs for the boys to go to school.

So basically can't move out until 1st Feb next year. If anyone looking for a 4 bed condo at Clementi, it's available.

PNGMK
Director
Director
Posts: 4852
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013

Postby PNGMK » Fri, 17 Oct 2014 6:44 pm

AussieSkater wrote:
JR8 wrote:
AussieSkater wrote:The LL has always been reasonable and really nice to us, he has given us gift baskets for Christmas and kept the rent just below market rates as he didn't want us to leave. Mind you he hasn't had to supply one bit of furniture or do any repairs to the place, so we have been what I would call "ideal" tenants and he a great LL.

We are only moving because of school location and know that we will have to pay a fair bit more in rent. We will contact him and see what he says, hopefully he will be just as nice as he has been for the last 5 years, will let you know the outcome.


Wonderful, if only experiences such as yours were more common!

I would continue in the same cooperative fashion as far as possible. When you speak to him explain the circumstances and see how you can best work together for him to get the place relet. That might be how and when 'viewings' are carried out. You could also consider placing a small-ad here and finding your own replacement (which if it came together might make the LLs tenant hand-over seamless). Don't know, but I expect you can see the direction of my thinking...


Well we sent an email to the LL asking if we could leave 2 months early, he appeared to be ok with it initially, then he came over to our place and bought his agent in, who basically talked him out of it. The agent went on about the fact that the market was flat and he would find it difficult to find someone and then the LL offered to drop the rent by $200-$300 for us to stay and said we could use the savings to pay for cabs for the boys to go to school.

So basically can't move out until 1st Feb next year. If anyone looking for a 4 bed condo at Clementi, it's available.


Bloody agents.

jindalritesh1026
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue, 16 Dec 2014

Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby jindalritesh1026 » Tue, 16 Dec 2014 10:08 am

Hi,

Need help regarding transfer of main tenancy. I wanna move out of my current house because of personal reasons. Currently I am the main tenant of the house and have already found a replacement who is ready to take over the main tenancy. But the problem is the owner wants me to do all the procedure in the HDB.

Could you please guide me with this. I even tried to find stuff on HDB WebInfo but couldn`t crack it. Has anyone faced such an issue before? Please help!!!

User avatar
JR8
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 16514
Joined: Wed, 24 Mar 2010
Location: K. Puki Manis

Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby JR8 » Tue, 16 Dec 2014 10:51 am

jindalritesh1026 wrote:Hi,
Need help regarding transfer of main tenancy. I wanna move out of my current house because of personal reasons. Currently I am the main tenant of the house and have already found a replacement who is ready to take over the main tenancy. But the problem is the owner wants me to do all the procedure in the HDB.
Could you please guide me with this. I even tried to find stuff on HDB WebInfo but couldn`t crack it. Has anyone faced such an issue before? Please help!!!


How did you sign your current TA, did you visit the HDB with the landlord, and if so what happened/what was their involvement? I ask as as long as the landlord has permission from the HDB to let the flat, then I cannot see why or how they are further involved.

Unless the LL has to provide the HDB with a copy of the revised TA (which might well be a requirement, I don't know), but can't it just be posted to them? My gut feeling is that perhaps he's a bit out of his depth and he somehow wants the security of the HDB 'officiating' over this amendment.

Perhaps you can ask him what the role of the HDB is in this. Of course you could also call and ask them. I wouldn't be surprised if their answer might be along the lines of 'Don't come here, we can't help you'.
'Do it or do not do it: You will regret both' - Kierkegaard

jindalritesh1026
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue, 16 Dec 2014

Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby jindalritesh1026 » Tue, 16 Dec 2014 11:07 am

JR8 wrote:
jindalritesh1026 wrote:Hi,
Need help regarding transfer of main tenancy. I wanna move out of my current house because of personal reasons. Currently I am the main tenant of the house and have already found a replacement who is ready to take over the main tenancy. But the problem is the owner wants me to do all the procedure in the HDB.
Could you please guide me with this. I even tried to find stuff on HDB WebInfo but couldn`t crack it. Has anyone faced such an issue before? Please help!!!


How did you sign your current TA, did you visit the HDB with the landlord, and if so what happened/what was their involvement? I ask as as long as the landlord has permission from the HDB to let the flat, then I cannot see why or how they are further involved.

Unless the LL has to provide the HDB with a copy of the revised TA (which might well be a requirement, I don't know), but can't it just be posted to them? My gut feeling is that perhaps he's a bit out of his depth and he somehow wants the security of the HDB 'officiating' over this amendment.

Perhaps you can ask him what the role of the HDB is in this. Of course you could also call and ask them. I wouldn't be surprised if their answer might be along the lines of 'Don't come here, we can't help you'.


Hey thanks for the reply. There was an agent involved and the owner herself went to HDB later for registration (this is what the agent told me). Now the agent is not responding to me. He doesn`t pick up my call nor replies to my messages. I did call the HDB and they said that the owner should come to us and we will do it. When I did told the owner she says you get the procedure done and i`ll just sign wherever you want me to.

Now I am in a very bad stage and don`t understand what to do at all.


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Staying, Living in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests