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Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Discuss about where to live, renting a property, tenancy issues, property trend and property investment in Singapore.
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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Mon, 28 Oct 2013 10:01 am

the lynx wrote: I like this advice. Not sure if it has legal implications though.


Hmmm, which bit is it that concerns you? I cannot imagine that a landlord has a right to observe you via CCTV inside your own home*. That would seem (to me) to be a pretty clear breach of 'Quiet Enjoyment'.



* The thought of installing CCTV cameras in my own rentals is SO inconceivable, I just LOL'd at the passing thought :lol: That is the kind of thing that could conceivably end up as headlines in a tabloid newspaper: 'Nightmare landlord spied 24/7 on young female tenants: With their full knowledge!'

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Postby x9200 » Mon, 28 Oct 2013 10:39 am

JR8 wrote:
the lynx wrote: I like this advice. Not sure if it has legal implications though.


Hmmm, which bit is it that concerns you? I cannot imagine that a landlord has a right to observe you via CCTV inside your own home*. That would seem (to me) to be a pretty clear breach of 'Quiet Enjoyment'.

This would be likely just another criminal act this time made by the tenants to the LL. Of course he would be still responsible for peeking with the camera with the obvious intention (or not) but at the same time the tenants may be found guilty of making the poor LL to watch a porn unintentionally (unwillingly). And what if his 10yo nephew playing with his PC sees it?
Yes, I know it's pretty academic but generally taking justice in your own hands may sometimes backfire.

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Postby PNGMK » Mon, 28 Oct 2013 11:55 am

If the Camera can be removed without damage I would do that. Alternatively tape over the lens, call the cops, point out what you've done to "protect my modesty" and let the fun and games begin.

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 28 Oct 2013 3:56 pm

x9200 wrote:This would be likely just another criminal act this time made by the tenants to the LL. Of course he would be still responsible for peeking with the camera with the obvious intention (or not) but at the same time the tenants may be found guilty of making the poor LL to watch a porn unintentionally (unwillingly). And what if his 10yo nephew playing with his PC sees it?
Yes, I know it's pretty academic but generally taking justice in your own hands may sometimes backfire.


Oh heavens, a derivative, of a derivative. I did say 'pretending' to have sex. Could a faked sex-act via CCTV offend someone's modesty? If the landlord demands to install CCTV, are you liable for behaviour that might offend him, his family, or anyone that views it? Is twerking and Lady Gaga permitted? Hmmm.

'Making the landlord watch porn'? I thought it was always the viewer/voyeur that was in the frame? I recall long ago passing by a condo right next to mine up on Mt. Sophia on the daily trudge home, and there routinely being a ... nubile young lady very publicly showering in full view. And she knew it. And yet I (and i expect others) felt obliged to 'shield our eyes', and look away...

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Postby Steve1960 » Mon, 28 Oct 2013 4:13 pm

Get a bloke in for a few weeks. Nose picking, ar*e scratching, athletes foot scratching, belly button cleaning etc etc

The guy will soon stop looking :wink:

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Postby x9200 » Mon, 28 Oct 2013 5:53 pm

JR8 wrote:Oh heavens, a derivative, of a derivative. I did say 'pretending' to have sex. Could a faked sex-act via CCTV offend someone's modesty?

probably

If the landlord demands to install CCTV, are you liable for behaviour that might offend him, his family, or anyone that views it?

Of course. An offense is an offense independent of the chain of events leading to it (simplifying). If the LL installs a machine gun does it give anybody right to kill the LL with it? What if he was really looking into the safety? Before he is convicted he should be assumed innocent and you want to do some bad bad not really modest things to him and who knows to who else.

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Postby JR8 » Mon, 28 Oct 2013 8:36 pm

But if that were so why isn't there a queue of people round the block trying to sue Miley (Kylie, Gaga, Madonna, ... etc) on the basis of their outraged morals? If a single person in Bongo-land found Botticelli's Venus offensive (it does contain nudity) should it not be allowed to appear on the internet?

I don't think it works like that. From what I've seen the scale of potential offensiveness is judged upon how it would be seen via the eyes of 'the reasonable man'.

An offense is an offense independent of the chain of events leading to it (simplifying). If the LL installs a machine gun does it give anybody right to kill the LL with it?

Lol! A little hypothetical? :) I think you'd have a right to try and stop him using it against you.

What if he was really looking into the safety? Before he is convicted he should be assumed innocent and you want to do some bad bad not really modest things to him and who knows to who else.

Manslaughter then? But does a bit of 'nude spandex' and some faux-twerking really warrant death?

If your landlord installed CCTV inside your apartment, on what grounds would you object?

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 29 Oct 2013 5:46 pm

JR8 wrote:But if that were so why isn't there a queue of people round the block trying to sue Miley (Kylie, Gaga, Madonna, ... etc) on the basis of their outraged morals? If a single person in Bongo-land found Botticelli's Venus offensive (it does contain nudity) should it not be allowed to appear on the internet?

I don't think it works like that. From what I've seen the scale of potential offensiveness is judged upon how it would be seen via the eyes of 'the reasonable man'.

I agree with this but if I am not mistaken you planned to make up some kind of orgy show. Not?

An offense is an offense independent of the chain of events leading to it (simplifying). If the LL installs a machine gun does it give anybody right to kill the LL with it?

Lol! A little hypothetical? :) I think you'd have a right to try and stop him using it against you.

You have a point, but this is only because I gave not a good example. There is no case of self defense in showing some pornish performance to the LL.



What if he was really looking into the safety? Before he is convicted he should be assumed innocent and you want to do some bad bad not really modest things to him and who knows to who else.

Manslaughter then? But does a bit of 'nude spandex' and some faux-twerking really warrant death?

If your landlord installed CCTV inside your apartment, on what grounds would you object?

I would probably report the trespassing to the police immediately after I discovered it was installed and if I was a woman I would do the outrage of modesty dance too.

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 29 Oct 2013 6:17 pm

x9200 wrote:I agree with this but if I am not mistaken you planned to make up some kind of orgy show. Not?

Well, mock orgy, clothes on, and not the real thing. No different from Miley’s twerking really.

x9200 wrote:There is no case of self defense in showing some pornish performance to the LL.[/i]
You aren’t wishing to show anything, rather he is demanding to see it. You aren’t showing anything, you’re just peacefully occupying the premises, and having some fun. If the LL sticks a camera in the toilet bowl, can he be offended by what he might see, real or pretend?

x9200 wrote:]What if he was really looking into the safety? Before he is convicted he should be assumed innocent and you want to do some bad bad not really modest things to him and who knows to who else.

The safety of what? Monitoring of tenants ‘safety’ is none of the landlords concern.

[quote=”

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 29 Oct 2013 6:26 pm

Yeah I realize it was the mock orgy but you don't believe what they show in the cinemas rated >18 are the real orgies (if any) and violence?

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 29 Oct 2013 6:42 pm

Well, if a landlord put CCTV in my home (probably illegal) and filmed me. I have great doubts that a court would find that a group of friends, having fun, gyrating in spandex were guilty of anything.

The landlord completely 100% unreasonably (IMHO) facilitated it. Reap what you sow, and have invited upon yourself.

What do you think? It seems like a reasonable construct to me, but I'd be interested in hearing any different angle from you.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 29 Oct 2013 7:35 pm

I said I at the beginning I consider my defense of the landlord "academic". I doubt you would encounter any repercussions. Maybe the judge would do this [-X at worst.

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Can owner dont provide room key even its stated in the cont

Postby Nichole » Thu, 07 Nov 2013 11:43 pm

Hi,

We would like to seek advice if ownwr can dont provide room key even its stated in the contract. The reason owner not providing thr key is that her house is small and she wanted better ventilation (i.e open thr door when we are bot aroudz)

Please gove us advice on how we can enforce the contracg terms. And what we can do if we wants to mvpe out.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 08 Nov 2013 8:34 am

First, you should talk to her and explain your reasons. I mean, that this is your right to privacy and you feel not ok with the current arrangement.

Second (if the 1st fails), you should mention what is in the tenancy agreement. Also that this violates you basic legal right of peaceful enjoyment of the property.

If this fails, you should make a legal threat saying you would move out and go to SCT to recover the damages.

If this does not help you will have no choice but move out and sue her, or accept the status quo.

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Tenancy Agreement- date Clause

Postby Devraaj » Tue, 11 Mar 2014 11:30 am

Hi,
I am a tenant and been renting a Studio. The agreement in for 1year with a clause for minimum stay of 6months.
I have stayed for 8 months now and am eligible to vacate.
I called the agent for 2 days continuously and had no response from agent.
Finally on 9th March i messaged the Agent that i tried calling him multiple times, and haven't had any response.
I want to vacate the house on 9/10 of April, and consider this as my 1 Month notice, as pet the tenancy agreement.

The Agent messaged me back with snapshot of tenancy agreement that i need to inform them before 7th of the month and the vacating date will be end of the same month.

Since then the agent has not been picking my call, and just only texting to my messages.

I want to know if this is legal or illegal to have such clause in tenancy agreement mentioned in Brackets?
As per the Govt rules in Singapore, it is a simple 1 month notice which i have to serve.

I will be grateful if anybody can enlighten me if this is legal or illegal to have such clause which states that i have to give notice before 7th of the month?

also my billing cycle is 20th -20th, as i took the studio on 20th of August.
Devraaj


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