Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

[cheated2]

I have tried the 'I will pay when I get back option', which is when I got the feedback that the landlord doesn't want to proceed, but with no reason given!

My agent is still fighting to get the money back and I asked her to give them a deadline of 5pm today to give her a cheque or I will be forced to start legal action to recover my money and will report them all to CES.

Will let you know the outcome..

Thanks for everyone's advise. Thought I'd give a quick update. Threatening court action and reporting the agents to CES seems to have worked. The Landlord has agreed to return the deposit in full, however he would only date the cheque the 1st Feb. After much arguing why this was the case unfortunately I had to accept this as otherwise he wants to go to court. He is clearly playing games and wanting to end out on top, but at least now I have his signature and a cheque to prove he intended to pay the money if the cheque does bounce.

It is clear this whole thing came about as his agent agreed something with me that was not agreed with the landlord, yet the agent refuses to admit this and the landlord won't back down. Am torn whether to still report them to the CES, as my agent is begging me not to as it will ruin the other agents livelihood... well they ruined my move to Singapore and now I am unsure whether I can trust any agents/landlords again.... Will see how I feel once the cheque clears!

[Strong Eagle]

Am torn whether to still report them to the CES, as my agent is begging me not to as it will ruin the other agents livelihood... well they ruined my move to Singapore and now I am unsure whether I can trust any agents/landlords again.... Will see how I feel once the cheque clears!

Report them... you do others a service... and their livelihood is fraudulent and deserves to be ruined.

[QRM]

Fry the buggers, the world would be a better place with one less dodgy agent.

Turn the tables on him, ask him to compensate you for the grief and get them to pay for a month or two rent?

[zzm9980]

Yes, please file a report. This isn't just being vindictive. As you said yourself, your move to Singapore has been ruined. Undue inconvenience has been laid on you. You'll be saving numerous others in the future. (And who knows how many they've screwed over before you?)

It would be nice if landlords like this could also be reported to HDB, and lose permission to rent their unit! Even if only a three-strike system. Watch the whole Renter-rentee dynamic change overnight!

[sundaymorningstaple]

Get your money. (if the cheque bounces you've really got him by the short & curlies) Report the agent(s) to the CEA. If you don't they don't learn, but just think they got unlucky this time. They need to be stopped. We sit on this site trying to help people coming to Singapore (I know, it doesn't always seem like it, but sometimes the truth hurts). You reporting bad agents will be doing the same thing we are doing here. Trying to protect those who follow. Most of us real old timers, have learned the hard way on one thing or the other as we got here before the advent of forums and other means of instant communications. Now we try to protect others.

In the words of Nike?

Just DO IT.

[cheated2]

Get your money. (if the cheque bounces you've really got him by the short & curlies) Report the agent(s) to the CEA. If you don't they don't learn, but just think they got unlucky this time. They need to be stopped. We sit on this site trying to help people coming to Singapore (I know, it doesn't always seem like it, but sometimes the truth hurts). You reporting bad agents will be doing the same thing we are doing here. Trying to protect those who follow. Most of us real old timers, have learned the hard way on one thing or the other as we got here before the advent of forums and other means of instant communications. Now we try to protect others.

In the words of Nike?

Just DO IT.

Thanks for all the feedback... I will definitely be reporting them to CES once the cheque clears, and will be happy to name and shame anywhere that it will make an impact! Ideally I'd really like to stop the landlord being able to rent his property out too, but I don't know if this is possible...

I've just checked on the website we found the place and the unit is up for rent again within 24 hours of us getting our post-dated cheque (even though it is CNY).

[Sir]

This business with the agent for the landlord not being able to charge a fee to tenant is very timely information.

Q: How do you know if the agent is 'yours'. is there an agreement to be signed?

Q: can an agent be both yours and the landlords?

The situation: answer an online advert for a house, go see it, meet an agent there to show me around. She then acts as translator between landlord (only speaks chinese) and me.

sound to me like shes their agent, not mine and i certainly never appointed her my agent.

she has requested fees of 1months + 7%... is this legal?

[ecureilx]

sound to me like shes their agent, not mine and i certainly never appointed her my agent.

that she is representing you to the landlord (twist the words anyway you want) means, you have appointed her as your agent

she has requested fees of 1months + 7%... is this legal?

legal or not depends upon how badly you need the place

That's the issue .. supply - demand .. as for the 7%, that is the GST, so normal to charge the 7% ..

[Sir]

thanks... better pay up then

[JR8]

Hold your horse Ecu, I think you might be way out of line on this.

He has answered an advert. He has not chosen to find an agent to represent him, and he has not entered into a contract with this agent to represent him.

Therefore it would appear that this agent 'who has magically appeared' must surely be representing some other party, i.e. the landlord. Otherwise they're what? Purporting to be acting as an agent on a property on which no party has instructed them (is that legal?).

If that is the case the potential tenant has NIL liability.

p.s. that is the best of my understanding.

[ecureilx]

Hold your horse Ecu, I think you might be way out of line on this.

He has answered an advert. He has not chosen to find an agent to represent him, and he has not entered into a contract with this agent to represent him.

Therefore it would appear that this agent 'who has magically appeared' must surely be representing some other party, i.e. the landlord. Otherwise they're what? Purporting to be acting as an agent on a property on which no party has instructed them (is that legal?).

If that is the case the potential tenant has NIL liability.

p.s. that is the best of my understanding.

Well, you are right .. I am not disputing what you wrote

my tongue in cheek comment was aimed at the 'market forces in action' thing ..

If you are desperate to get the unit, of course, the agent magically becomes your agent too

The issue is, many a buyer accepts the arm twisting acts of the agents as NORMAL ..

Legally, you are right .. practically, I would say 9 out of 10 just go with the flow

[x9200]

What JR8 said. The agent can only act for one party (by law). An agent handling the LL's advertisement represents LL. Charging you any money by the LL's agent is illegal - this would be the case of double representation which is not allowed (your second question).

[sundaymorningstaple]

Hold your horse Ecu, I think you might be way out of line on this.

He has answered an advert. He has not chosen to find an agent to represent him, and he has not entered into a contract with this agent to represent him.

Therefore it would appear that this agent 'who has magically appeared' must surely be representing some other party, i.e. the landlord. Otherwise they're what? Purporting to be acting as an agent on a property on which no party has instructed them (is that legal?).

If that is the case the potential tenant has NIL liability.

p.s. that is the best of my understanding.

Well, you are right .. I am not disputing what you wrote

my tongue in cheek comment was aimed at the 'market forces in action' thing ..

If you are desperate to get the unit, of course, the agent magically becomes your agent too

The issue is, many a buyer accepts the arm twisting acts of the agents as NORMAL ..

Legally, you are right .. practically, I would say 9 out of 10 just go with the flow

In a serious discussion, it would be best not to allude to something that other readers may well come to believe. Smilies or nor smilies (you use far too many of them to be taken at any sort of face value). The newbie reader doesn't understand and may well take it the wrong way.

[ecureilx]

In a serious discussion, it would be best not to allude to something that other readers may well come to believe. Smilies or nor smilies (you use far too many of them to be taken at any sort of face value). The newbie reader doesn't understand and may well take it the wrong way.

Noted ..

[cheated2]

Get your money. (if the cheque bounces you've really got him by the short & curlies) Report the agent(s) to the CEA. If you don't they don't learn, but just think they got unlucky this time. They need to be stopped. We sit on this site trying to help people coming to Singapore (I know, it doesn't always seem like it, but sometimes the truth hurts). You reporting bad agents will be doing the same thing we are doing here. Trying to protect those who follow. Most of us real old timers, have learned the hard way on one thing or the other as we got here before the advent of forums and other means of instant communications. Now we try to protect others.

In the words of Nike?

Just DO IT.

My cheque cleared on Friday, so I decided today I would report the agents to the CEA. Only problem is I have to give all my details (Passport number, full name, contact details etc...) and it states these will be shared with the agent I am complaining against and if I want to remain anonymous then they will probably not follow up!!!

Seems like they are going to get away with messing more people around as I'm not putting myself in the firing line before I've even moved to Singapore!

Nusajaya is looking better and better by the day....