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Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Thu, 10 Nov 2011 3:06 pm

Does your contract with the agent say that you have to pay him if/when you stay in situ for a 3rd year?

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Postby lifeofothers » Thu, 10 Nov 2011 5:05 pm

I cannot remember any such agreement when we signed the first or the second time. I have a copy of the agreements, let me check tonight. Is it usually added in the tenancy contract?

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 10 Nov 2011 5:21 pm

lifeofothers wrote:I cannot remember any such agreement when we signed the first or the second time. I have a copy of the agreements, let me check tonight. Is it usually added in the tenancy contract?


I would not expect there to be any info on the brokers commission in the tenancy agreement. I would expect it to be laid out separately in the agreement that you made when you initially dealt with the broker.

Or put it another way, on what basis have you been paying your broker? How do you know what is the 'right' sum?

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Postby beppi » Fri, 11 Nov 2011 5:44 am

lifeofothers wrote:the landlord and us mutually agreed on getting into a new contract without the agent, as it is a quite a bit of saving for both parties.


There you have it: By charging both you and the landlord (otherwise there would be no savings for both of you), the agent is breaking the law.
Report him/her to CEA and don't pay anything!

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 11 Nov 2011 6:05 am

beppi wrote:
lifeofothers wrote:the landlord and us mutually agreed on getting into a new contract without the agent, as it is a quite a bit of saving for both parties.


There you have it: By charging both you and the landlord (otherwise there would be no savings for both of you), the agent is breaking the law.
Report him/her to CEA and don't pay anything!


Do you know that this carries over for agreements that were made prior to the change in the law earlier this year? I have a niggling feeling that it might not.

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Postby beppi » Fri, 11 Nov 2011 6:16 am

JR8 wrote:
beppi wrote:
lifeofothers wrote:the landlord and us mutually agreed on getting into a new contract without the agent, as it is a quite a bit of saving for both parties.


There you have it: By charging both you and the landlord (otherwise there would be no savings for both of you), the agent is breaking the law.
Report him/her to CEA and don't pay anything!


Do you know that this carries over for agreements that were made prior to the change in the law earlier this year? I have a niggling feeling that it might not.


The law (I read it in full) does not specify any exceptions for older contracts or the like. Ask CEA, they will tell you for sure!

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 11 Nov 2011 6:48 am

I'm squinting a bit trying to see how a new law is going to overide a contract made a couple of years earlier, but fair enough you're right in that calling the regulatory body is going to the horse's mouth.

p.s. More to the point the questioner doesn't seem to know what has been agreed or his obligations. Too many people seem to act on what they believe or what they have been told rather than what they've signed.

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Postby lifeofothers » Fri, 11 Nov 2011 2:01 pm

Yes. I had no clue of what I had signed. I checked the old contract which mentions the agent is liable to the fee if the contract is renewed. Sigh!
We cannot affort the amount, as the owner wont reduce the quoted rental... we decided to move in to a new place!
The CEA and law was new to me, thanks, will read read it up anyway.

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Postby beppi » Fri, 11 Nov 2011 6:18 pm

JR8 is wrong: All activities always have to conform to the laws and regulations of the place and time they take place, regardless of what was planned or agreed on beforehand. (Else this would be a backdoor for circumventing new rules - just make a long-term contract that says otherwise!)
Since the estate agent act does not specify otherwise, it thus overrides old contracts.
As a consequence, only the one party (landlord or tenant) who engaged the agent in the first place pays a fee.
Please contact CEA if in doubt.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 11 Nov 2011 6:35 pm

beppi wrote:JR8 is wrong: All activities always have to conform to the laws and regulations of the place and time they take place, regardless of what was planned or agreed on beforehand. (Else this would be a backdoor for circumventing new rules - just make a long-term contract that says otherwise!)
Since the estate agent act does not specify otherwise, it thus overrides old contracts.
As a consequence, only the one party (landlord or tenant) who engaged the agent in the first place pays a fee.
Please contact CEA if in doubt.


Easy tiger :), I didn't contradict you, I simply said 'I'm squinting a bit' to see your point.

For example take this piece of legislation (England and Wales)
------
Energy Performance Certificates (EPCs) are a legal requirement for the majority of rental properties. Legislation states from 1st October 2008, an EPC is required whenever a building in the social or private rented sectors is let to a new tenant.
------

I have several tenancies pre-dating 1/Oct/08 and so do not have to provide EPCs.

There must be plenty of other examples. Like... vintage cars don't have to comply with emission limits. I'm sure trust law doesn't require trusts to be rewritten with every change in applicable tax law.

Anyway, it looks like a moot point now, and I'm too busy dealing with my own property admin workload to go and read the CEA rules/act again...!

p.s. Don't know about using contracts to avoid future changes in laws, how would know what they are, by using ESP or something?

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 11 Nov 2011 8:57 pm

This is called a retroactive or ex post factum law but I think the confusion lays where the events are placed on the time scale. Actually it IS pretty confusing but from my experience, for civil law the interpretation of JR8 may be correct.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 11 Nov 2011 9:28 pm

JR8 wrote:For example take this piece of legislation (England and Wales)
------
Energy Performance Certificates (EPCs) are a legal requirement for the majority of rental properties. Legislation states from 1st October 2008, an EPC is required whenever a building in the social or private rented sectors is let to a new tenant.
------

I have several tenancies pre-dating 1/Oct/08 and so do not have to provide EPCs.

Yes, but this is an easypeasy case as it clearly points to an even that took place before the new law was introduce. The certificate is required at the moment the TA is signed (now) and was not required prior to 2008. All the past events are already completed (the moment you let it to the tenant). Now what we have here is of this type:
Say AD 2010 it was legal to kill a RE agent with the knife. You have a pre 2010 agreement with a killer stating you pay him $S200 for killing an agent. The law changed and now you could be penalized for hiring the killer but as law does not go back in time you are safe (an event in the past). This is one aspect only. The questions:
1) will the killer be convicted if he kills now? - no doubts, yes
2) will the killer violate the contract if he fails to kill eventually so you can seek a compensation?

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 11 Nov 2011 9:40 pm

Er ok, so what about the point re: vintage cars then?



:wink: :)

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 11 Nov 2011 9:51 pm

IMHO this is the current law that allows the old cars not to comply to the emission and other modern standards.

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Postby JR8 » Fri, 11 Nov 2011 10:18 pm

So do you agree that the CEA Act would require specific allowance in order to obviate contracts entered into prior to it's enactment?


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