Singapore Expats Forum

UPDATE - Freelancing while on dependent visa

Discuss about getting a well paid job or career advancement. Ask about salaries, expat packages, CPF & taxes for expatriate.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34336
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 28 Jun 2009 5:37 pm

ksl wrote:I would specifically discuss the minimum requirements with ACRA, on the amount of monies one can earn, before becoming liable as a business identity.

There are not amounts. It is a matter of function not results that results in the necessity of forming a business or company. Agreed that a business would be the way to go for the first couple of years though.


Here you will see that you cannot even be classified as Self Employed until you have annual net earnings of 6000$ So you really do need to find out your minimum liabilities, basically the authorities would just ignore what you are doing until it becomes significant.

Ksl, you are mixing information between two branches of the government with different guidelines. Your information regarding the $6000 is for the necessity of contributing to Medisave via the CPF Board, not the necessity of registering a business with ACRA and filing returns with IRAS. Most companies operate at a loss or very little profit when first establishing themselves unless they are really lucky. Therefore turnover or net profits don't enter into the equation at all.


Although it is your responsibility to understand the laws, and to self regulate, failure to do that will see you in trouble. The way I see it, you just carry on with your hobby until the income is turned over to a viable level, that becomes significant for the authorities.

Not good or legal advise I'm afraid. :(

A local accountant should know the rules inside out, and this is probably also why street hawkers sell without a licence and sell at car boot sales because licences are only required for goods, that are imported and health & safety requirements for foods . So basically anyone can sell to the limit of self employment. Net 6k until then its a hobby. WRONG!

http://www.acra.gov.sg/NR/rdonlyres/10C ... andYou.pdf

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Sun, 28 Jun 2009 5:47 pm

Yes I am aware of the medisave requirement, my main point is that, there will be a specific line drawn between hobby and business if the tax laws are based on the UK, there is no way of knowing unless you ask ACRA.

User avatar
Strong Eagle
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 10468
Joined: Sat, 10 Jul 2004
Location: Off The Red Dot
Contact:

Postby Strong Eagle » Sun, 28 Jun 2009 6:12 pm

ksl wrote:Yes I am aware of the medisave requirement, my main point is that, there will be a specific line drawn between hobby and business if the tax laws are based on the UK, there is no way of knowing unless you ask ACRA.


I'm with SMS on this one. The ACRA is clear. Except for some specifically exempted businesses (for which one could not get an LOC anyway), if you plan on running a business in Singapore it must be registered, as a sole proprietorship, private limited, or limited partnership. Period. No $$ value minimums. It's a hobby if you don't sell something, it's a business if you attempt to sell something.

You are confusing the thread concerning the rejection of the LOC. It has everything to do with MOM saying an LOC can be issued, then rejecting it, and nothing to do with the type of business formed nor the revenues.

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Sun, 28 Jun 2009 10:49 pm

It is true what you both say, however I'm a person that always looks at the develoment of a Country and the rules are very specific to Citizens and Pr's my point is, first of all, there is no way the person would get an EP when it is entre pass related.

My reference to the medisave/cpf document may have been a little hasty, although it does indicate requirements to be self employed and falling into the category of paying medisave, quite different for none Singaporeans.

Without being too informative, I will say that everyone doing business or wanting to do business, should take the regulations and laws seriously, and discuss with the appropriate departments, simply because Singapore is still in an incubator stage, where it learns from developed Countries, and although laws and regulations are set, it doesn't mean they cannot be changed, because of changing times...what is needed however is documentaion and support to prove your case.

If for example we take website internet sales in Singapore, it doesn't work, but it does in other Countries, and one can build a substancial business through internet sales, although is there any regulation to internet selling here? I don't know, that's why I am asking direct me to any rules or regulations with regards to internet sales business!.

What I am attempting to say is do not close doors because of laws and regulations in a new Country that can be changed on appeal. Each department have a job to do and they do it according to the present rules and regulations, the same people have helped me, to adapt, to these rules and regulations, while you do not fit the criteria, because the criteria is very vague.

Like when i first arrived here, when i was freelancing and getting cheques every quarter, or royalty fees for establishing a brand name, call it what you will, it's foreign income paid into a different Country and work is done from a mobile computer, and this is where the complexity on international law steps in, and bureaucratic laws, that make it a debate.

No Country in its right mind want's to turn away innovation and job prospects, so Country laws are circumvented to suit the Country's needs, so one must understand the game play, to play. It is true however you cannot beat the rules & regulations but you can open eyes to developments around the world, which will eventually come to Singapore, it may take 5 years or 20 years, but guaranteed it will come.

So really my point is, always listen to others, but keep an open mind otherwise you will never be an entrepreneur.

Even my own solicitor I had back in the early 79 said no I cannot import cars into UK for private people legally, but I did it, catch 22's come up all the time, and you if you look, you can over come the problems, especially in a developing Country like Singapore, which learns from the major developed Countries.

But true to say you cannot beat the rules & regulations but you can get advice to play the game until the laws are updated. :wink:
Last edited by ksl on Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34336
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:04 pm

But on this site we cannot advise people to do things that are "currently illegal" according to the current laws of Singapore. And not registering a business while conducting one is illegal. Online or brick & mortar. If you sell from Singapore and Singaporeans can access the site and purchase from the site then you have to be registered. :-|

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:23 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:But on this site we cannot advise people to do things that are "currently illegal" according to the current laws of Singapore. And not registering a business while conducting one is illegal. Online or brick & mortar. If you sell from Singapore and Singaporeans can access the site and purchase from the site then you have to be registered. :-|


My point is who are we to say if it is legal or not, surely Singaporeexpats.com will not take that liability, and I'm pretty sure they don't and many lawyers may even back off, if they do not have the experience, international law will over ride anything here in Singapore if it is common practise in well developed Countries and I doubt very much that Singapore would have any issues, with what is internationally excepted but I do understand your concern!

cracktojack
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri, 28 Nov 2008

Postby cracktojack » Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:44 pm

Hi SE, ksl and SMS.... Thanks a ton for your views. You won't believe, but we didn't went on Saturday MOM to appeal for rejection of LOC as we were eagerly waiting for ur replies :-). No we'lll go on Monday

We went through all your posts, and we can say:

1. We are actually setting up a business and will be hiring locals also.

2. We do have proper business plan but we didn't submitted the same to MOM with LOC form as they didn't asked for the same and I feel, if we do excess paperwork, sometimes it backfires.

3. When we consulted MOM, we cleared the air over EntrePass, but the officer said that my wife has DP and as she can setup a company without applying for EntrePass and she have the benefit of this and hence better not to apply EntrePass.

4. And we do belive that business will surely grow as we'll slowly start catering to major parts of world apart from Singapore market taking benefit of Internet.

5. We are aware that Singaporeans are not into buying from Internet, but we do have other plans in mind to cater the market over here by participating in say B2C Shows and all.

I think we'll submit the documents suggested by SE along with Work Experience certificate and Resume.

Lets see.... I hope for the best.

Regards,
CJ

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Sun, 28 Jun 2009 11:57 pm

Good! That's because a dependant pass holder gets privileges over a person that want's to come here to start business, I also found it strange that it was rejected in the first place, because as a spouse it is normally not a problem to work on dependant pass.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34336
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:11 am

ksl wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:But on this site we cannot advise people to do things that are "currently illegal" according to the current laws of Singapore. And not registering a business while conducting one is illegal. Online or brick & mortar. If you sell from Singapore and Singaporeans can access the site and purchase from the site then you have to be registered. :-|


My point is who are we to say if it is legal or not, surely Singaporeexpats.com will not take that liability, and I'm pretty sure they don't and many lawyers may even back off, if they do not have the experience, international law will over ride anything here in Singapore if it is common practise in well developed Countries and I doubt very much that Singapore would have any issues, with what is internationally excepted but I do understand your concern!



ACRA, IRAS says what's legal in Singapore. SE and I are taking our cues from our dealings with them and their sites and make our replies based on their rulings. we cannot say how we think it should be done and advise someone to do it our way and run foul of the law here. It really doesn't matter what the UK does. I don't understand why the UK keeps cropping up. This is not a crown colony. They have evolved.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34336
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:14 am

cracktojack wrote:
5. We are aware that Singaporeans are not into buying from Internet, but we do have other plans in mind to cater the market over here by participating in say B2C Shows and all.



My point was not whether a Singapore would buy from your site, but whether they CAN or not. If they can and you are operating from Singapore then you would need a registered business.

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:29 am

SMS:It really doesn't matter what the UK does. I don't understand why the UK keeps cropping up. This is not a crown colony. They have evolved.
:P :lol: You wish!

User avatar
ksl
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon, 19 Jul 2004
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby ksl » Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:53 am

ksl wrote:
SMS:It really doesn't matter what the UK does. I don't understand why the UK keeps cropping up. This is not a crown colony. They have evolved.
:P :lol: You wish!
My opinion is that every case is individual and not set in concrete, just because there are rules and regulations, that are normally updated after consulting laws and regulations of large developed Countries.

It would be wrong to say to any Country your laws are wrong, but it is not wrong to say, that your laws and regulations as a developing Country need to be evaluated, now that is evolution. Crown colony as nothing to do with it, and the UK will always crop up, simply because Singapore is built on UK law and not American law.

The most vital point of all, is that the majority are Chinese, and Chinese Culture is always evolving too, but not at the pace others would like and I myself have been advised to take this into account too, the rotary club and government officials are always open to new ideas, but they need ideas to be presented in a manner in which they are understood and with substantial evidence, before changes can be made.. For anyone to ignore these facts, are pretty limited in their optimism for change.

cracktojack
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri, 28 Nov 2008

Postby cracktojack » Mon, 29 Jun 2009 1:07 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
cracktojack wrote:
5. We are aware that Singaporeans are not into buying from Internet, but we do have other plans in mind to cater the market over here by participating in say B2C Shows and all.



My point was not whether a Singapore would buy from your site, but whether they CAN or not. If they can and you are operating from Singapore then you would need a registered business.


u r correct SMS... and for that reason only we thought of going legal route eventhough some local guys suggested us that Internet Business is a grey area over here and there are no specific laws for it and you can avoid setting up a business and avoid all these legal hassles (Don't know if he was correct)..

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34336
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 29 Jun 2009 3:43 pm

ksl wrote:
SMS:It really doesn't matter what the UK does. I don't understand why the UK keeps cropping up. This is not a crown colony. They have evolved.
:P :lol: You wish!


Hey, I'm only taking cues from all your rants against what the UK has become. I've only been listening to the messenger! You. :P :cool:

lsac0902
Regular
Regular
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu, 08 Feb 2007
Location: Singapore
Contact:

Postby lsac0902 » Mon, 29 Jun 2009 3:57 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:The person on a dependents pass, as noted earlier, can register a business (sole proprietorship) or form a private limited as the sole director.

The person must then contact MOM for a letter of consent, and once the letter of consent is received the person is free to run the business.

As with the Entrepass, businesses not of an entrepreneurial nature (e.g. coffee shops/hawker centres/food courts, foot reflexology/massage parlours, karaoke lounges, money changing/remitting, newspaper vending, geomancy and tuition services etc) will not be considered for a letter of consent.



I plan to give tuition or do some translation as freelance. If I didn't misunderstand, I can register a business as sole proprietorship and then apply for a LoC. Is that correct? thanks


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Careers & Jobs in Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests