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Sons of PRs - NS-liable?

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 11 Jun 2009 9:54 am

There aren't many, but there are a number who have done so. Including one of my mates son. He's finished his NS several years ago now. There are more and more who, like yourself, see Singapore as a better option than returning to their own country (e.g., US or UK) due to the declining moral authority of those governments. However, he won't be "singled out" because of being a Ang Moh so there are no worries there. While there are occasionally some razzing here it's not like in our military at home (my home is the US) and listening to ksl, it's the same in the UK.

My son is currently 19 and on deferment until he finished his tertiary education but then he'll be going into NS as well.

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Postby nushk » Thu, 11 Jun 2009 7:28 pm

I really hope I can post this reply. I am the OP, but somehow I cannot seem to post any reply to any topics on this forum anymore (an error message always pops up when I try). so I re-registered under a new name. (mods, may I know what the problem is? it has been very frustrating)


renault wrote:
Kinda shameful and sad to find some one like you. Guess Singapore should have screen you before letting u or ur spouse in here for work in the first place


let me first clarify something.

I'm a singaporean, born and for the most part of my life, lived here. I do not have much issue about compulsory NS for singaporean male citizens. that is the law, and I shall respect that.

but I would have an issue if I married a PR, and if we have a son, and the son is, no matter what, liable for NS. however, I've found my answers in a search of old posts here much to my relief, in that, even if my spouse is a PR, and if we have a son, the son does not have to be a PR (us parents can choose), and thus will not be liable for NS at all.

I found the answers to my questions.


now, on a different note, renault, I find that you are dissing me without even knowing what I am asking for. do you understand, renault, what my issue is? I won't even have much of an issue if 1st-generation PRs have to do some sort of NS (maybe reservists type NS if beyond a certain age). because that is THEIR CHOICE to be a PR of singapore. but to have to 'force' it to the sons.. I don't find that right. but now that I know, that if we have a son, we can choose not to make our son a PR and just rely on a dependent's pass (as I don't want my son to take up his singapore citizenshihp), so he will not enjoy the benefits of a PR/citizen and he is also not liable for NS, I am totally fine with that.

to echo what some others have said, if parents did not read fine print and are so ignorant, signing their sons on as PRs, then that is their own fault, for not konwing what they are getting into.


to address your other points about PRs having the same benefits as citizens.. sorry, but that I beg to differ. I am no PR, but neither are you, renault, so you can't really say that a PR has the same rights/benefits as a citizen. just ask around this forum and you will know how much 'benefits' us citizens get, compared to a PR.


so when you say
"Kinda shameful and sad to find some one like you. Guess Singapore should have screen you before letting u or ur spouse in here for work in the first place."

oh, please. I would gladly have upped and leave this place, if not for my spouse who happens to love living here. I would also gladly give up my citizenship and live here on a dependent's pass. so much for having rights and benefits as a singapore citizen.

as for screening my spouse, well, I'm sure ICA did notice on my spouse's application forms: MBA from a very respected university, an oxbridge honours degree, CFO of a finance company, etc.. oops, I guess they DID screen him after all, eh?

so, renault, if you had asked nicely where my questions were coming from, you wouldn't have come across as a nationalistic, raging, pro-NS singaporean.

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Postby nushk » Thu, 11 Jun 2009 7:38 pm

finally! I can post again!!


sundaymorningstaple wrote:There aren't many, but there are a number who have done so. Including one of my mates son. He's finished his NS several years ago now. There are more and more who, like yourself, see Singapore as a better option than returning to their own country (e.g., US or UK) due to the declining moral authority of those governments. However, he won't be "singled out" because of being a Ang Moh so there are no worries there. While there are occasionally some razzing here it's not like in our military at home (my home is the US) and listening to ksl, it's the same in the UK.

My son is currently 19 and on deferment until he finished his tertiary education but then he'll be going into NS as well.


this is another issue that was raised in this thread. doing NS is a very personal matter, law or no law. while I don't see NS as a very big issue, I find the compulsory bit a bit icky. I like how, for instance, Germany gives german boys a choice: community service or NS. some boys/men are just not cut out for NS. I don't mean physical fitness. I mean many other things that go under the radar - psychological health (clinical depression, etc), for instance. some boys suffer from it but dare not voice it out when they are enlisted, as it will stay on record and might hurt his future career.

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Postby littlegreenman » Thu, 11 Jun 2009 8:21 pm

nushk wrote:...I like how, for instance, Germany gives german boys a choice: community service or NS.


True this is good in my opinion, however it also causes problems as the healthcare system is now overly reliant on NS people to push beds through hospitals, drive ambulances (that must be fun!), work in old folks homes etc. and it leads to market distortion and lower wages for trained full time staff in these sectors. From an Economic point of view this is quite a problem (sorry, I am an Economist and can't help it).

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:26 pm

Additionally, Countries like Germany, France, UK, US have sufficient numbers of males to fill their military needs so there a reason why that choice is there.

Singapore on the other hand, has limited manpower and the 3rd lowest fertility rate in the world for the past 5 to 8 years (1.3) the US has a 2.3 fertility rate. With Singapore men not being able to preform in the bedroom it would stand to reason that every male child would be needed to do NS (You will notice that NS stands for "National Service" and not "Military Service") When they serve NS they might be placed in the Army, Navy, Air Force, Police, or Civil Defence Corp. Not all are Military.

It is essential that Singaporean males serve in order to at least be able to make the important phone call to their allies when they are attacked by their two neighbours for the port facilities. :wink:

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Postby littlegreenman » Thu, 11 Jun 2009 11:51 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:...With Singapore men not being able to preform in the bedroom...


How do you know that? :lol: I am gobsmacked.

Nah, I think it is not that. I think it is more a problem of the lads having transformers in their bedrooms until the age of 40 and thus not getting the women in the mood. The ladies thus resort to having "placebo children" hanging from their arms, also known as branded handbags they then carry around and spend all their money on so the bags have many brothers and sisters.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 12 Jun 2009 7:10 am

Yeah, I was too several years ago when this first came to light (for me around 2002 or 03 when I first learned of it. It's pretty common knowledge but knowledge that, for once, Singaporeans don't brag about.

Read and ponder (The annual Durex Worldwide survey tells all) .....

http://www.littlespeck.com/content/life ... 051205.htm

http://everything2.com/title/Romancing%2520Singapore

http://www.irishasia.com/node/53

http://www.asianoffbeat.com/default.asp?Display=1732

http://www.sma.org.sg/smj/4401/4401a3.pdf

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Postby littlegreenman » Fri, 12 Jun 2009 4:09 pm

This is worrying if you keep in mind that people might overstate numbers in this studies.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 12 Jun 2009 5:06 pm

You mean you think Singaporeans make the number smaller thinking the closer to 1 was best? :shock:

Or do you figure only people from other countries exaggerate. :?

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Postby littlegreenman » Fri, 12 Jun 2009 6:22 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:You mean you think Singaporeans make the number smaller thinking the closer to 1 was best? :shock:

Or do you figure only people from other countries exaggerate. :?


Neither one fo the two. I am thinking they might overstate the number of times they "get some" as once a fortnight doesn't sound very thrilling and rather depressing. So you make it once a week instead. Also they might ask how many times a week do you "get on the steam train":

a. 1
b. 2
c. 3
d. more than three times.

If you only "do the dance" once a fortnight you will then tick a. as it is the closest answer, yet you are actually overstating by 100%

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Postby nushk » Fri, 12 Jun 2009 8:03 pm

amazing how fast threads in this forum go off-topic, lol.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:07 pm

littlegreenman wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:You mean you think Singaporeans make the number smaller thinking the closer to 1 was best? :shock:

Or do you figure only people from other countries exaggerate. :?


Neither one fo the two. I am thinking they might overstate the number of times they "get some" as once a fortnight doesn't sound very thrilling and rather depressing. So you make it once a week instead. Also they might ask how many times a week do you "get on the steam train":

a. 1
b. 2
c. 3
d. more than three times.

If you only "do the dance" once a fortnight you will then tick a. as it is the closest answer, yet you are actually overstating by 100%


But wouldn't it follow suit that the probability factor of the percentage of those that overstate/understate would be the same across the spectrum of countries and only vary by gender?

Or return to my second proposal earlier. :P

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:08 pm

nushk wrote:amazing how fast threads in this forum go off-topic, lol.


That's why most of the NS/PR threads are in the "Strictly Speaking" forum as that is the only moderated forum that must stay on topic (for this very reason). :mrgreen:

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Postby littlegreenman » Mon, 15 Jun 2009 3:35 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
But wouldn't it follow suit that the probability factor of the percentage of those that overstate/understate would be the same across the spectrum of countries and only vary by gender?

Or return to my second proposal earlier. :P


Why would you understate the number of times? When it comes to this topic I do not think that would happen by a great margin?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 15 Jun 2009 4:02 pm

So if you agree, then my second proposal still stands that exaggeration would take place across the whole spectrum. Therefore while the "actual" frequency might be smaller/larger, the placements would stay basically relatively unchanged across all the countries surveyed.

Still puts Singapore in pretty poor light no matter how you look at it. :o


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