grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[Callalily]

at mothers/fathers who don't ensure that their kids don't hit/hurt/intimidate other children. I took my 3 to a soft-play and there were two little brats who did nothing but intimidate and hit my children who are much younger than them. The mother sat on her fat derriere and did absolutely nothing in spite of the fact that I informed her about her brats' behaviour. Terrible combination: Little bullies and useless mother. If she can't control them, why take them out!!! i am fuming. My children are not always an example of good behaviour, but at least I discipline them when needed!!!!

Lily (rant over and feeling better already )

[durain]

if they got a maid, they probably learn it off their mum bullying the maid!

[road.not.taken]

Lily, good for you for saying something, you did the right thing. Making parents aware and then accountable for their children's behavior is the first step toward changing it. I recently had the opportunity to spend lots of time with the leading authority of female bullying -- fascinating stuff. A real eye-opener! When society empowers adults to say: hey, stop that, we don't do that here' instead of being preoccupied with being politically correct, or well-liked or the 'cool' parent -- then things can really start to turn around. Until then, intimidation/aggression can grow unfettered. Those soft-play places are set up perfectly for bullies, aren't they?

Wait till they get to middle school and high school -- I wish I could tell you its over by then, but not by a long shot. What you teach your 3 year old now about dealing with these situations, will serve them well their whole life long.

A few more observations: a ineffective parent will often lead to aggresive children -- no accident, it's cause and effect.

And she takes them out because she can't control them, and it's easier for her.

I think you'll find your friends will be people with similar parenting styles, it's such a core value - maybe more than religion or politics

[Thaiclan]

You shouldn't feel angry, you should feel grateful that you are more fortunate than the other woman to have a much greater awareness of your children and other children.
You might want to think about handling the situation differently too so that you are not left feeling exasperated and frustrated and "needing a rant"
I usually ignore the parent completely regardless and intervene directly to the kids so that my children can see a working example of how to handle bullies and meanies. This means that they too can use the tools you show them rather than them coming home from school or play exasperated and frustrated (just like Mum gets) when kids don't play or act the way they expect them to.
There is always a solution, and kids respond much differently to other adults than to their own parents, so when you intervene the changeabout in behaviour is amazing AND immediate.
Good Luck

[cbavasi]

I agree with Thacian... with a useless parent - deal directly with the source... I have perfected my "evil eye" and usually threaten to find the mother which inevitably ends with the kid skulking away. It is annoying though when you have generally mild mannered kids and they get pushed around!

[road.not.taken]

There is a time to speak to the kids, and there is a time to speak to the parent. Context is important...

[Thaiclan]

Road not taken I actually disagree. I think it is important to make all children take responsibility for their own actions. I'd never dream of bullying my way as a mother in a hostile manner to make another kid feel bad. however by approaching the child, getting down physically to their eye level, you can ask them via positive and conducive language what they are doing and whether they think it is a good idea or not. The idea is not to be mean or overpowering to them, just to use our adult intelligence to get them to think about and come upwith their own conclusions.
You are teaching them to take responsibility and you are teaching your own kids to take action yourself to solve a problem NOT to depend on "authority" to intervene for you.
I've met many hostile kids who played the role of bully or meanie and when you get down to their level you realise all is not as it seems, maybe their actions were too rough but their intention was not mean and maybe (god forbid!) our own children weren't exactly the kind innocent little angels in the situation too!
Also I have found by going directly to the child and SOLVING the problem you haven't judged or labelled the parent as "bad" or "useless" and therefore they do not rise up in a defensive manner and feel like they are being judged or frowned upon. After all there are always 3 sides to a story - your side, my side and REALITY! LOL

[road.not.taken]

Road not taken I actually disagree. I think it is important to make all children take responsibility for their own actions. I'd never dream of bullying my way as a mother in a hostile manner to make another kid feel bad. however by approaching the child, getting down physically to their eye level, you can ask them via positive and conducive language what they are doing and whether they think it is a good idea or not. The idea is not to be mean or overpowering to them, just to use our adult intelligence to get them to think about and come upwith their own conclusions.
You are teaching them to take responsibility and you are teaching your own kids to take action yourself to solve a problem NOT to depend on "authority" to intervene for you.
I've met many hostile kids who played the role of bully or meanie and when you get down to their level you realise all is not as it seems, maybe their actions were too rough but their intention was not mean and maybe (god forbid!) our own children weren't exactly the kind innocent little angels in the situation too!
Also I have found by going directly to the child and SOLVING the problem you haven't judged or labelled the parent as "bad" or "useless" and therefore they do not rise up in a defensive manner and feel like they are being judged or frowned upon. After all there are always 3 sides to a story - your side, my side and REALITY! LOL

I don't disagree with you at at all Thaiclan. And 9 out of 10 times I think your rationale applies. But I do still feel, there is a time to address the child and a time to address the parent. If your 3 year old is in an enclosed ball pit and is inaccessible to you, but the parent of the bullying 6 year old is sitting right next you -- well, I might say something non-confrontational to the parent to put a stop to the immediate threatening behavior.

Children need to be taught their own coping skills, of course -- but they also need to be taught that as children they should not be expected to know what to do 100% of the time, and asking an adult when needed is OK too.

A friend of mine tells a story of when they lived in Korea. A little 3 year old boy who was Korean-American had stopped being invited to play dates. Why? His disturbingly graphic language. Every four-letter word you could think of came spewing out of this kid's mouth all the time. The other parents said, we don't use that language here at our house -- he said: well, we do so pass the the f*cking milk. When someone finally screwed up the courage to speak to the Mother (the Korean side of the parentage) she had no idea, NONE, that sh*t, f*ck, etc... were considered at all offensive. She was completely in the dark and was grateful for the wake up call. If no one had spoken to her, that poor little boy wouldn't have any friends, and they would never know why.

[Thaiclan]

"But I do still feel, there is a time to address the child and a time to address the parent. If your 3 year old is in an enclosed ball pit and is inaccessible to you, but the parent of the bullying 6 year old is sitting right next you -- well, I might say something non-confrontational to the parent to put a stop to the immediate threatening behavior."

Believe me in that situation I would be crawling into the ball crawl to sort it out! LOL There is no where children should play that is inaccessible to parents.
The culture and use of language is a funny one. We are British so to say the word "shit" is rude in our culture, but here in Singapore it seems quite relaxed. My daughter is used to her Singaporean friends using the word but she also knows that it is unacceptable in our household to say that.
For instance my 5 month old baby made some grunting noises and I said "uh oh stinky", my daughters 7 year old Singaporean friend said "oh did she do a shit?", my 7 year old replied "if she was in your house she would have done a shit, but being as she is here she just did a poo poo!" LOL

[fristromcan]

I shared Callalily's frustration. Was in a similar situation once and was ill-prepared to response. The comments from various poster were certainly enlightening.

Was at the NLB book exchange on Sat. The place was packed. One 4-5 yrs old boy was sitting on the bookshelf kicking around. Another 7-8 yrs old girl was at another table, tossing the books for fun. In both cases, the mother were around. I ended up reminding both kids that it is public area and their behavior is not appropriate. The kids looked at me, the mothers looked at me, and continued their own way.

While I agree with Thaiclan that kids should be responsible for their own action, it is also parents responsibility to educate them on what is appropriate.

[Callalily]

Hello

Thanks very much for your input. For the record, I did speak to the boys first but they just ignored me and continued with their bad behaviour. the mum was quite far away not even looking in their direction. They were the oldest and roughest, she was obviously not worried for her kids. After several attempts (speaking, warning, evil eye,...) I approached the mum who looked like she didn't give a damn anyway so I had to remove my children and take them home. Parents should take responsbility for their children. Some parents can get very aggressive if you speak to their kids. I witnessed it once... It was quite shocking how the parent reacted to another parent speaking to their badly-behaved child. What a bad role-model!!! I shouldn't have to talk to other people's kids but will do if I have to. Indeed, my friends hold similar values to mine, apart from one very dear friend but her son is very aggressive so I see her on her own and avoid the stress.

[QRM]

Some people see it as a positive trait and actively encourage their kids to be pushy and aggressive, theory being they wont be stepped over later on in life.

[Callalily]

Better enroll my little twins in a gladiators combat class. Will check "the finder" this instant!

[fristromcan]

Some people see it as a positive trait and actively encourage their kids to be pushy and aggressive, theory being they wont be stepped over later on in life.

Agree: different family/parents have different values. I have been told before that I am "old-fashion". Only after my child's birth that I realize how "out-dated" my value system is: I am not sure whether this is good for him but I know of no other way.

[cbavasi]

My mother used to always say "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" when referring to ill mannered children/adults...etc. and I think this still holds true. I think most of the people on this forum and certainly the posters have a sense of what is acceptable behavior and what is not - it's those people who just have no clue who are the problem. That being said - I'm in the process of starting to discipline my 2 year old who is about 100x more dramatic than her brother and big and bossy... so for all my "tsk tsk" when I didn't have any problems with my eldest I'm paying for dearly with my 2nd. Apologies to all she barrels over!