'Respect For Others'....A Forgotten Phrase, Seemingly...

[sierra2469alpha]

SMS - fair point, however abbreviation on this forum wasn't being called into question (or have I missed something (must be having a seniors week if I have). I was merely pointing out that there is another user ont he forum called sierra and didn't want them getting caned for my mistakes! I don't think my post could have been any clearer on that point.

In terms of the 7.62/308, you of all people would understand the humour in that, as I hope AK47 did (it's the type of round that an AK47 takes).

So, no, it's not a case of pot calling kettle black. Different fish, different kettle.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Same kettle. Only difference in the fish was the attitude of the fish when thrown in the kettle. Sierra does not use your avatar. Only one other poster uses it (he's been here around 3 years but doesn't post that often) So there's no mistaking who was being referred to in that thread I don't think. And yes, being a gun nut as well, sure I recognized it right off, but how many here would? You, Me, SE, ksl & probably AK47_UK. But you did correct the poster AND also informed them what 'was' permissible. So maybe we both are having a seniors moment here. "'You may call me this or this but not this.' But that wasn't the point and you know it.......

Everybody had their dander up last night and I had all I could do to stay out of the fray, though I was following it closely!

Anyway, have a good'un today and hope you get all your moving done. That's always stressful anyway.

sms

[Dave Magoo]

Back to your original point, I do think all the bad news looming like a dark cloud out there has us all on edge a bit. A good time to treat each other with a bit more kindness, no harm in that.

Couldn't have put it better myself, road-not-taken

I see tough times as being times when people really should rally around each other even more, not turn against each other as such But that would be my potato famine Irish heritage kicking in

Ultimately, having thought about it further, I actually agree with WIMH and others that things have probably always been rather 'brutal' on this and all forums. It's the way things are these days. Before such forums existed, the good ole pub debate often went the same way, but with oft-severer penalties attached!!

There is also probably some truth in the fact that such forums get just that little bit more brutal as times get harder...people do sometimes need an outlet to relieve their greater frustrations and where better than through the relative anominity of a 'debate' forum such as this. Be that the case or not, however, there is still no harm in trying to make people aware of it through such calls as 'respect for others'...I don't expect it will make much difference, but there we go.

Btw: I must point out that I am from a nation where 'piss-taking' is at the centre of our collective culture, at least for people of my generation, class, and background, but I'd like to think that I know when to draw the line between friendly banter and unwarranted full-on personal attacks. Can go toe-to-toe with the best of them if need be, but would rather not go there unless absolutely necessary

Let's all try to remain positive in these rather negative times

Cheers all !!

[morenangpinay]

people here are so .hmm serious. lol. money problems or not just smile. there are worst things than the financial crisis. really..there are disasters...typhoons... those things.

[Wind In My Hair]

Dave,

I get your message loud and clear. Sorry to be guilty of arguing on your thread urging people not to argue! I take full responsibility for my part and am not going to blame the economy or anything else. Certain things just really get my goat, namely all forms of double standards, and I've never been able to stand quietly by when I see this. This is purely a personality difference that's been going on for years and has nothing to do with the current times.

Aiyoh, this forum is getting too vexing for me. Think I need to bury my head in the sand for a while and get out of this weird mesh of personalities! My original point still stands - this forum is the most quarrelsome thing I've known and hanging out here makes me quarrelsome. Time to take a break, methinks...

[Addadude]

My original point still stands - this forum is the most quarrelsome thing I've known and hanging out here makes me quarrelsome. Time to take a break, methinks...

My dear, if you think this forum is quarrelsome, you should venture over to the Angry Board... This place is peace and light by comparison!

[sundaymorningstaple]

Ain't it the truth!

[Dave Magoo]

Dave,

I get your message loud and clear. Sorry to be guilty of arguing on your thread urging people not to argue!

Rather ironic, WIMH, but you're more than forgiven (if there is anything that needs forgiving, that is!!)

It's good to see some 'healthy' debate going on here, even if things kinda started to go the same way as what I was originally posting about .

Of course, I wasn't really urging people not to argue, as that would make for a rather dull discussion board after all , but rather be constrained in the level of any personal attacks associated with such arguments.

But, as you say Addadude, compared to the Angry Board, things here are relatively tame anyway....maybe I should repost the thread there too and see where that goes But then again, maybe not

[k1w1]

At the risk of stirring a pot that's been left, I am going to wade in here on this one...

WIMH, I am really shocked by your post above. I really hope you were just making gross generlisations as a way of showing a point (though I'm not sure what point). I personally know of about six people who have been laid off in the last month or so, and each one of them was attacked (and it IS an attack) with a spiel similar to what you said to road-not-taken. Each one of them had a similar line, "Oh it's fine for you when you're earning the big bucks, but now you cry, ha? A-hahaha!"

One guy I know has had his pay with-held because they know he has to leave soon and has no time to chase them (and the company is not going under, they're just using this as a convenient excuse to cut costs and they (like an ever-increasing group) have had an axe to grind with expats for a while now... Two people I know have had to hire lawyers because they have been ripped off so badly and are stranded here without visas (which means the children are now not allowed to attend school).

I just think the whole thing was in really poor taste, and I hope like hell road-not-taken is not actually in the position where she is facing this because the post would have been in ever poorer taste, akin to kicking someone when they're down.

[sierra2469alpha]

SMS - truly, I don't understand where you are coming from. I've asked you twice, once via PM, to explain exactly why you are trying to say because it's beyond me and a few others here. Furthermore, I don't see the point of dragging a comment I made in a totally different thread into this thread which has absolutely no relevance to this discussion. So again, please, state your point without being so obtuse that some of us simply don't get it!!!

No offence meant, but if you're not being understood then obviously something's wrong. Right?

Given we all know the particular people and threads that were being discussed in this thread, I'm at a loss to why you want to vie in and torpedo it, and include me for some reason. If it's a beef with me, you've got my email and you can and have PM'd me before. Kinda shocked at the attitude, actually.

Interesting to see where the angst is coming from as a result of this thread.

@WIMH - you didn't see the thread attacking Ms. C because the OP deleted it after about 12 or so hours, so how can you say that there was no direct attack on her when you didn't see it??!!? Plenty others saw it - but the gin drinker was wiley!! Take care..

[ozchick]

Magoo, I appreciated reading your post. I'm not posting much at the moment cos a certain person sometimes gets on a thread and seeks attention in a very aggressive way for no reason at all. I find it sad that some people use this forum for their punching bag. They should deal with their personal issues. It spoils what could be an actual 'discussion'.....sigh....
I'm surprised that you haven't been attacked in this thread by the poster in question. Maybe he's having a good day?!

[Addadude]

WIMH, I must admit that I found your riposte to road.not.taken uncharacteristically hostile and surprisingly irrational.

First of all, whether someone is on a generous expat package or not makes no difference. They've still lost a job while living in a foreign country. Hopefully the expats who've enjoyed these nice perks will have put some money aside to lessen the pain. But the shock and trauma are still very real. Both road.not.taken and k1w1 have described this very well and I don't think I need to repeat it.

The fact is, while getting retrenched is a horrible experience wherever you are, it is certainly less painful and worrisome when you are living in your own country.

I can tell you from personal experience that losing your job while living in a foreign country is very fcuking scarey. There is no net. No one you can turn to. It is all the more frightening when you realise that you are unlikely to find a new job anywhere else just now. At least during '97/98, 2000 and 2003/2004, you could pack your bags and head off to another country to find another job. You don't have that option anymore...

And all this pain and worry is multiplied exponentially when you factor your children into the equation.

Your second comment that Americans and their careless spending habits etc, etc have "single-handedly brought the global economy crashing down" makes even less sense. Asia was very happily producing all the goods that Americans were buying thanks to their "careless spending habits". Going by your argument that if you profited from the good times, you have no right to complain when things go bad, Asians have no business pointing fingers at America.

And, as we all know, many banks here were very happy to sell financial snake oil to willing Singaporeans. Then of course there are all those homegrown property investors who have seriously over extended themselves hoping to 'flip' the over priced 'luxury' apartment(s) they bought in the last 2 years... These are hardly people who "have sacrificed more and behaved more like responsible grown-ups for decades". The savings that most Singaporeans are relying on are the forced savings that the Singapore government has imposed with CPF.

This is not the WIMH I've come to know on this Forum... Whoever kidnapped her, please send her back!

[road.not.taken]

I personally know of about six people who have been laid off in the last month or so, and each one of them was attacked (and it IS an attack) with a spiel similar to what you said to road-not-taken. Each one of them had a similar line, "Oh it's fine for you when you're earning the big bucks, but now you cry, ha? A-hahaha!"

One guy I know has had his pay with-held because they know he has to leave soon and has no time to chase them (and the company is not going under, they're just using this as a convenient excuse to cut costs and they (like an ever-increasing group) have had an axe to grind with expats for a while now... Two people I know have had to hire lawyers because they have been ripped off so badly and are stranded here without visas (which means the children are now not allowed to attend school).

I just think the whole thing was in really poor taste, and I hope like hell road-not-taken is not actually in the position where she is facing this because the post would have been in ever poorer taste, akin to kicking someone when they're down.

Yes, it's petty and small, this 'I told you so' argument. When our jobs ended in '95 the company cancelled the lease but didn't bother to tell us. The landlord's kids told our kids at the playground that they had a week to leave the apartment. It was awful. But don't worry k1w1, we're hanging in there. The Singapore office might have closed (again!)-- but didn't -- due in part to the fact that my Mr. has again waived his salary. So, the the business stays afloat and the 30 local hires in his office can keep their jobs. You know -- more selfish agrandising us expats are known for.

[sierra2469alpha]

...-- due in part to the fact that my Mr. has again waived his salary. So, the the business stays afloat and the 30 local hires in his office can keep their jobs. You know -- more selfish agrandising us expats are known for.

A good but sad story, road.not.taken, but we can relate to that. With a multi-million dollar investment here in Singapore by Ms. C's company, we're trying to help out by having the "oh so exhorbinant expat salary (NOT!)" being paid back in our old country for a few months to take the pressure off due to exchange rate issues. This means we have to fund ourselves out of savings here.

Very similar story as you can see, and a story that's not often understood about some of us expats - both within and outside of the expat communities.

K1w1 - yes I have to agree - we have 7 friends going through the same as your friends as I type this - everywhere from Hong Kong, here, Dubai, Australia, the US. Not all of them are expats, but the majority are. It seems some companies are playing dirty tricks (an Australian well known bank for example, terminated staff due to non-performance - based on their department's non-performance - re-distributed that departments bonus pool to other departments) - hence, under Aus law, and their employment contracts, left them with nothing. Out of these people, a total of 900 went in Sydney in one day (!), and 80 in Hong Kong, some of who had only just relocated there. So - yes dirty tricks are happening all over the world.

Mr. P

[Vaucluse]

Magoo, I appreciated reading your post. I'm not posting much at the moment cos a certain person sometimes gets on a thread and seeks attention in a very aggressive way for no reason at all. I find it sad that some people use this forum for their punching bag. They should deal with their personal issues. It spoils what could be an actual 'discussion'.....sigh....
I'm surprised that you haven't been attacked in this thread by the poster in question. Maybe he's having a good day?!

Oh dear, the Australian Female with clarse stalking me again . . . go away . . . shooo . . . stay away from me. Back to Mt. Druitt with you

Let's see. You post drivel about calling the cops because you were cut off in traffic as this is what would happen in Awe-strucken-failure, aka Australia.

You have a good dig at me in a previous thread.

Now you do the same without provocation yet again.

And you say I have issues? At least you are well balanced with a chip on both shoulders.

Why would I attack Magoo? He's posted a very rational comment and the ensuing discussion has been quite fertile . . . until you came along with your personal attack. Again.

Please yourself, but don't punch and hide, punch and hide and then complain when when you get one back.

sierra(can't remember the numbers) and I had a run-in. Settled. No acrimony.

WIMH have had our run-ins. Settled. No acrimony despite the fact that she's Singaporean and can't drive and is unfair by definition. Added to which she has a hide as thick as . . . well, a thick-hided beast. Why she keeps taking crap from some clueless expats with their gross generalisations and petty whining is beyond me. Power to her, I say!

SMS? We've had our differences of opinion, never a fight. Oh, road.not.taken; SMS not only knew Churchill but also his dad!

road.not.taken? She has a go at me quite often but does so in an effective and discussion-based manner. Never a problem with the lady of the board. Total respect for her!

Plavt? Never a bad word despite his censoring my posts

Addadude? Never a problem or confrontation

etc . . . etc . . . etc . . . In some cases it is a matter of grating personalities and in that sense this forum, like most others, is a reflection of society. At least one would hope that one's musings are at least a small part a reflection of one's personality.

Sorry to hear the hassles sierra(Darn. Numbers) and road.not.taken. We've also had our dry run continue, thankfully my legal eagle Mrs Cluse has been bringing home the bacon.

It seems like such a long dry run for many . . .