'Respect For Others'....A Forgotten Phrase, Seemingly...

[road.not.taken]

Hope nobody is calling us rude and agressive

Never have, never will . . .

Please...

My guess is that with your pedigree and upbringing you've been called rude from the Arden to the Sinai, in every hemisphere, in a polyglot of tongues.

[Wind In My Hair]

Perhaps it is more of an expat condition since the children's schooling, your home, income, social network, etc.. are all immediately effected so profoundly by a job loss.

Of course, the 'local' condition is different. The children's schooling, home, income, social network are not at all affected by a job loss... Sorry, double bollocks.

In any case, the economy is a red herring. This thread is questioning why specific posters here are being aggressive. If the people being rude on this forum are the ones losing their jobs, then perhaps the economy has a role. Yet except for one poster who has gone quiet recently, I don't think anyone's behaviour here is the immediate effect of a job loss. So I don't see how the economy answers the question, except to throw us off on a general tangent, obfuscate the issue, and absolve posters here of responsibility for their actions.

[Wind In My Hair]

Hope nobody is calling us rude and agressive

Of course not.

I believe the term used was "snarky and small."

[sierra2469alpha]

We're snarky and small? Or have I misinterpeted again?

[Dave Magoo]

Hope nobody is calling us rude and agressive

Never have, never will . . .

I second that, Vaucluse & Sierra !!

Indeed, it was the attack on Ms C. on one thread and Ozchick on another thread that prompted my initial posting.

I've probably noticed similar postings before, but I guess knowing the 'attacked' rather well put a different complexion on it...double standards, I guess, but will always defend my friends

Anyway, my posting is really only aiming to remind ALL of us of our responsibility to keep it friendly if at all possible !!

Just a thought

[Wind In My Hair]

Sierra, I suggest reading the thread before jumping to conclusions.

Dave, I don't think anyone was attacking Ms C. And while I love Ozchick to bits I recall that she made the first criticism and the reply, whilst rude, was nevertheless a reply and not an unprovoked attack. I'm partial to my friends too; the problem is I have friends on both sides of the line!

And I agree that we all have a part to play in keeping exchanges civil, in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health, in boom times and in bust etc. It should not be a free for all just because we're in a recession.

[road.not.taken]

Perhaps it is more of an expat condition since the children's schooling, your home, income, social network, etc.. are all immediately effected so profoundly by a job loss.

Of course, the 'local' condition is different. The children's schooling, home, income, social network are not at all affected by a job loss... Sorry, double bollocks.

Ya, pretty much what I expected. Let's just accept that you'll never take what I say at face value and always seek to undermine it. If we want to eat at the grown-ups table we should at least have the balls to call a spade, a spade.

So tell me, when your Singaporean friends lose their jobs are they forced to move 12,000 miles away on a moment's notice? Lose all their friends? Leave behind their homes, their safe havens? Be immersed in a completely different culture? Your friends with kids in local schools paying $14/month -- they have to yank them out of school when they are laid off? Can you not afford to visit your parents when money is tight? Because I can't. Have you ever stayed up with your child while they sobbed themselves to sleep because they had to move away from their home in a week's time?

Yes, it's different for Singaporeans, with your single news channel and your two - three years of recovery and your CPFs. It's different. That's why this forum exists. So grown ups can discuss the differences.

[Dave Magoo]

but my point remains that it's a bit unfair to compare situations in the manner that you have done. Your situation is personal to you, and it would not be fair to comment as such, but we are lucky enough to all come from countries where people are not 'forced' to do anything. We all make choices based on the situation in front of us, and then live with those choices. I'm sure that there are equivalent Singaporeans who are faced with similar situations to yours on a daily basis with similar consequences.

I genuinely sympathize with your and others plights as I've lost my job + benefits (housing etc) since January (all be it with the caveat of now being 'freelance'), having only arrived in August, having previously given up a very comfortable existence elsewhere to do so, but it is moving off-point to say that that is an excusable reason for any 'additional' tension/rude behavior etc on the forum.

Differences may exist, but losing your job and all that entails is not fun in any language, for any person of any nationality, be they resident or ex-pat....my Singaporean colleagues and I are all in the same boat in my current situation, with many dependents also being hard hit by it all. Differences may exist, but in the pain of retrenchment, we are all united... but hopefully maintain respect for others along the way!!

Just a thought

[road.not.taken]

Dave, I'm happy to admit that there are good points and bad to being an expat, but that is not the point; I am steadfast in believing my experiences may be different than that of a Singaporean in some respects. You yourself say they get hit 'harder'. It hurts when there is loss, no matter what, no matter your nationality and losing a job is terrible, but there is more at stake for an expat when the job ends. Anyone who doesn't see that isn't in the same boat as I am, that's for sure. That's all.

No, that's not all. Not all expats live in the lap of luxury you know? Some pay for school out of their own pocket, housing too. Home leaves, all of it. They have to pay to get themselves back home wherever that is, and they didn't benefit from all the typical expat perks you mentioned. It is devastating and since we have had the priviledge to be 'let go' at home and abroad, I speak from experience.

Back to your original point, I do think all the bad news looming like a dark cloud out there has us all on edge a bit. A good time to treat each other with a bit more kindness, no harm in that.

[Wind In My Hair]

Ya, pretty much what I expected. Let's just accept that you'll never take what I say at face value and always seek to undermine it. If we want to eat at the grown-ups table we should at least have the balls to call a spade, a spade.

So tell me, when your Singaporean friends lose their jobs are they forced to move 12,000 miles away on a moment's notice? Lose all their friends? Leave behind their homes, their safe havens? Be immersed in a completely different culture? Your friends with kids in local schools paying $14/month -- they have to yank them out of school when they are laid off? Can you not afford to visit your parents when money is tight? Because I can't. Have you ever stayed up with your child while they sobbed themselves to sleep because they had to move away from their home in a week's time?

Yes, it's different for Singaporeans, with your single news channel and your two - three years of recovery and your CPFs. It's different. That's why this forum exists. So grown ups can discuss the differences.

Sigh, you HAVE to make it personal, don't you? Fine. Let's play ball.

So tell me, when your expat friends land a cushy job here do they whine about how inconvenient it is to have all expenses paid for, how unfair it is that they earn more money for doing the same work, how snooty it is to put their children in an International School instead of assimilate into the local system, how hard it is to maintain the bungalows they live in... If you want to play ball then have the gall to take the wins with the losses. You expect sympathy because you've fallen on hard times, yet when you're better off than people here do you have sympathy for the way they behave because they are worried about tomorrow's bills or do you criticise and belittle the way poorer locals behave? You have nothing but contempt for the less fortunate yet expect every sympathy when you join their lot?

Of course it's different for us. It's different because we have been prudent with our budgets and paying our managers reasonable salaries and we are getting retrenched because Americans with your careless spending habits and your lax banking systems and your greedy overpaid managers have single-handedly brought the global economy crashing down. And you dare to resent the fact that we will recover sooner than you precisely because we have sacrificed more and behaved more like responsible grown-ups for decades and therefore have more resources to call on now. Oh come on. If you want to sound intelligent then do some thinking before posting nonsensical comparisons like this. You should be apologising instead of asking for pity. I have full sympathy for all those I know whose jobs are on the line, but your attitude stinks the big time. (I just saw Dave's post. In comparison, your attitude stinks even more.)

Grown ups would address the issues head-on instead of playing the blame game, resorting to desperate condescensions, and acting like spoilt brats spitting out their dummies when things don't go their way. You have just reminded me why you are on my iggy list, and you're back on it as of now.

[road.not.taken]

Ya, pretty much what I expected. Let's just accept that you'll never take what I say at face value and always seek to undermine it. If we want to eat at the grown-ups table we should at least have the balls to call a spade, a spade.

So tell me, when your Singaporean friends lose their jobs are they forced to move 12,000 miles away on a moment's notice? Lose all their friends? Leave behind their homes, their safe havens? Be immersed in a completely different culture? Your friends with kids in local schools paying $14/month -- they have to yank them out of school when they are laid off? Can you not afford to visit your parents when money is tight? Because I can't. Have you ever stayed up with your child while they sobbed themselves to sleep because they had to move away from their home in a week's time?

Yes, it's different for Singaporeans, with your single news channel and your two - three years of recovery and your CPFs. It's different. That's why this forum exists. So grown ups can discuss the differences.

Sigh, you HAVE to make it personal, don't you? Fine. Let's play ball.

So tell me, when your expat friends land a cushy job here do they whine about how inconvenient it is to have all expenses paid for, how unfair it is that they earn more money for doing the same work, how snooty it is to put their children in an International School instead of assimilate into the local system, how hard it is to maintain the bungalows they live in... If you want to play ball then have the gall to take the wins with the losses. You expect sympathy because you've fallen on hard times, yet when you're better off than people here do you have sympathy for the way they behave because they are worried about tomorrow's bills or do you criticise and belittle the way poorer locals behave? You have nothing but contempt for the less fortunate yet expect every sympathy when you join their lot?

Of course it's different for us. It's different because we have been prudent with our budgets and paying our managers reasonable salaries and we are getting retrenched because Americans with your careless spending habits and your lax banking systems and your greedy overpaid managers have single-handedly brought the global economy crashing down. And you dare to resent the fact that we will recover sooner than you precisely because we have sacrificed more and behaved more like responsible grown-ups for decades and therefore have more resources to call on now. Oh come on. If you want to sound intelligent then do some thinking before posting nonsensical comparisons like this. You should be apologising instead of asking for pity. I have full sympathy for all those I know whose jobs are on the line, but your attitude stinks the big time. (I just saw Dave's post. In comparison, your attitude stinks even more.)

Grown ups would address the issues head-on instead of playing the blame game, resorting to desperate condescensions, and acting like spoilt brats spitting out their dummies when things don't go their way. You have just reminded me why you are on my iggy list, and you're back on it as of now.

It is you who have made this personal, so I will bow out.

[Wind In My Hair]

You should never have started a fight where neither logic nor friendship was on your side. I hope things work out for you and your family. It's painful to lose a job no matter who you are, and I feel for you as much as I feel for anyone else. We may not get along, perhaps never have no matter how hard we tried, but I sincerely wish you well.

[sierra2469alpha]

....Sierra, I suggest reading the thread before jumping to conclusions....

Well here's one for the works. WIMH, there was another thread deleted by mods for various reasons, one of which was a muppet poster who decided to be extremely offensive to my wife, as the poster then tried to delete those postings. So, no, you didn't read them. I have them all for safe keeping.

I did read through this and asked a simple question. Sorry if that offends.

Also, please do not use the short version of our nick. There is a "Sierra" here. Ours is sierra2469alpha, or Mr. P, or Ms. C.

P

[road.not.taken]

You should never have started a fight where neither logic nor friendship was on your side. I hope things work out for you and your family. It's painful to lose a job no matter who you are, and I feel for you as much as I feel for anyone else. We may not get along, perhaps never have no matter how hard we tried, but I sincerely wish you well.

I'm sorry, I just don't see a 'fight' here. This is simply a difference of opinion. I don't think I 'started a fight' and I don't need 'friendship' to express my viewpoint, I only need my viewpoint. Whether you agree with them or not, I thought my arguments were well made, and just because you can't see the logic of my point doesn't mean it's not there.

Perhaps instead of wishing us well, and hoping things work out -- you could try to speak to the issue at hand in the here and now. You say you want to play ball, but you're playing the player, not the ball.

[sundaymorningstaple]

....Sierra,

Also, please do not use the short version of our nick. There is a "Sierra" here. Ours is sierra2469alpha, or Mr. P, or Ms. C.

P

From another thread this morning.........

...Old aunties put their elbow into your back on crowed sidewalks so that you either hurry up or get out of their way... just get out of the way....

SE - love it - nice laugh at this one. Awesome laugh, actually!

So, 7.62/.308 from the UK, embrace the fact that we're in a different culture. Respect their ways and in time they might respect you! It's all about attitude. Oh and if you want garlic smells, I can give you better - donate a week of your time to come and dig out some toilets in Vietnam for a deaf childrens hospice. I'll even provide the spade and the airfare!

Mr. P

Mister P alias sierra2469alpha,

Not wanting to take anything away nor to stir up an already bubbling pot, but haven't you just committed the same sin? A Pot. Kettle. Black. type of ?

Specifically, I mean the condemnation of others who otherwise shorten or change your nick? Or for that matter the penchant in this culture to shorten everything out of expediency. My nick, by the way, I shortened before I even joined this board. It doesn't really bother me.

For the record, road.not.taken also hates her nick being shortened due to it's connotations of a mental midget. r.n.t. often is shortened by some to rnt which does tend to look like runt with a typo. While she mentioned it a year or so ago, let face it, it's not gonna happen as "It's the culture here".

Mr. P. don't take it the wrong way, I'm just pointing out that often in the heat of things we occasionally (me quite often! ) stick our foot in it and let our bulldog mouths overload our hummingbird butts. Let's hope the pot is just simmering this morning and not on full boil.

sms