PR application 1 week after receiving S pass (Australian)

[Mezman]

Hi Guys,

This is my first post here. I'm pretty positive that you get a billion queries like these ad neuseum and so are probably sick of them, but that being said, I have to ask as I'd genuinely like some thoughts.

I'm an Australian that's just recently moved to Singapore with my wife whom is a Singaporean Citizen but has been in Aust for the last 7 years. I was born in Singapore but moved to Australian in 1988 when I was 9 years old because of my parents. I married a Singaporean Citizen in Australia, and now 21 years later I'm moving back to Singapore with her to start a family, because it's what she wants.

I've just recently obtained my S pass (picked it up yesterday as a matter of fact) and my E-Appointment for my PR application has been brought forward to this coming wed from it's original appointment at the end of next month.

My wife is currently unemployed and looking for a job (she's Masters qualified). I believe I tick all the right boxes in regards to PR application except for that fact that I do not have a degree or even a diploma (as I never needed one in my industry back in Sydney) which worries me. Just a HSC, or A levels equivalent. I'm currently employed as a Desktop Operations Manager in IT and have about 7+ years experience in my field.

Given that I've just started work this week and only recently obtained my S pass, would I be better off applying for PR under the spousal application, or just on my own merit?

It's crucial that I apply for PR asap. Why you ask? Because I'm currently employed to work on a Govt project which technically I'm not allowed to do. But my company has come to an agreement with the IT managers of the govt department, that they will agree to my employment under the condition that I apply for my PR ASAP.... and get it (because I apparently aced the interview). Basically if my PR application is unsuccessful, I lose the job even though I've already commenced working.

So any advice on whats the best class of application I should submit under? And the odds of approval? Some people say that I should wait until I have spent 6 months in the job, but I can't do that because of the nature of the agreement between my company and my client.

Any feedback or advice would be much appreciated!

Cheers Lads, I'm trying not to stress.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Yep, sounds like you got yerself between a rock & a hard place.

On the one hand, the family ties is a pretty sure thing with a Singaporean Wife. Unless my math is totally off, you are about 30 which means the downside of applying under the family ties method is that you are still technically liable to get called up to do NS though the odds are against it, I've never seen one yet but you do have to register so that they can waive your active duty.

The other had, applying for PR under the Technical Merits scheme could very well produce the come back in 6 months reply. If the sponsorship is from your employer (annex A) and it's a government agency, they they may have a build in waver for that but frankly I don't have a clue. That's the best I can give. Maybe somebody else has some anecdotal evidence to give.

sms

[Splatted]

One thing. If you are applying for PR based on being spouse, they will assess your family income based solely on your *wife's* income.

This may happen EVEN IF YOU SUPPLY ALL THE NECESSARY DETAILS of YOUR income. Unfortunately, often they don't always look at the complete picture and selectively look for the info they need to process applications quickly.

My PR was rejected on first application for this reason as they said my wife's income was not high enough, and it took a local MP to write a letter and have it reconsidered with my (potential) income included.

Edit:

One additional note: Spousal PR application took 3 months (plus the additional 3 months in my case after the MP wrote a letter before they reached a decision).

A friend of mine who applied under a different category based on his occupation, got it within 1 month.

[Mezman]

That's for the replies guys. Unfortunately I'm contracting through and agency and as such they are my employer, not the govt body directly. So that rules out any such chance of a waiver.

Thanks also for the heads up about the spousal thing, if they are accessing the application primarily on my spouses income (of which there's currently none) then that basically rules it out.

The option of the MP is a good one and it seems that quite a few people have taken cases up with their local MP, and successfully too. My father in law cut out a few articles in the chinese papers over the past year that were about how the Singapore Govt is trying to woo professional Singaporean women back to SG to have families in an effort to bolster the population.

He told me to take those articles with me to the application session! Lol... it may be an idea. But they should be handy if it comes down to having to meet with the MP *touch wood*. Like you mention, I hope they assess the application as a whole as opposed to just a few key criterion and failing to take into account all other relevant contributing factors that support my application.

[Splatted]

The option of the MP is a good one and it seems that quite a few people have taken cases up with their local MP, and successfully too. My father in law cut out a few articles in the chinese papers over the past year that were about how the Singapore Govt is trying to woo professional Singaporean women back to SG to have families in an effort to bolster the population.

I think MP's can only help if you have had an existing application rejected (and if you have a case worth considering too) , ie you still need to choose one avenue of applying for PR first.

You're right about the SG government trying to woo Singaporeans back. They spent millions over the last few years organizing "Singapore Day" events around the world.

New York in 2007, Melbourne Australia in 2008 (which I attended), and this April will be London.

Free food is given out to 100'000's that turn up, and they have lucky draws(which usually includes a free return flight for 2 to Singapore), goodie bags from a variety of stalls (including from NS ). Several Singaporean TV stars and performers are flown to event to also perform on stage.

[Saint]

One thing. If you are applying for PR based on being spouse, they will assess your family income based solely on your *wife's* income.

This may happen EVEN IF YOU SUPPLY ALL THE NECESSARY DETAILS of YOUR income. Unfortunately, often they don't always look at the complete picture and selectively look for the info they need to process applications quickly.

My PR was rejected on first application for this reason as they said my wife's income was not high enough, and it took a local MP to write a letter and have it reconsidered with my (potential) income included.

Edit:

One additional note: Spousal PR application took 3 months (plus the additional 3 months in my case after the MP wrote a letter before they reached a decision).

A friend of mine who applied under a different category based on his occupation, got it within 1 month.

If that's the case, don't know how the hell I got my PR then?! My wife had zero Singapore income and had done for the previous 4 years plus.

[Splatted]

If that's the case, don't know how the hell I got my PR then?! My wife had zero Singapore income and had done for the previous 4 years plus.

Not sure, Saint. Just giving the facts of what happened in our particular circumstance. This was in 2006, by the way. (applied first in July, and finally got it by Nov/Dec)

[Mezman]

My wife spoke to someone from the ICA call centre today and was advised that it didn't really matter at all in our case whether we opted for the spousal application or me applying on my own merit. Basically she says they are both judged according to the same criteria and so it was up to me to choose.

Naturally, I was a bit skeptical of the response but oh well.... what can you do aye? I'm just going to go apply on my own merit whilst keeping my fingers crossed and my prayers aplenty!

[Splatted]

My wife spoke to someone from the ICA call centre today and was advised that it didn't really matter at all in our case whether we opted for the spousal application or me applying on my own merit. Basically she says they are both judged according to the same criteria and so it was up to me to choose.

The problem with the ICA staff (and I don't mean any disrespect when I say this), is that a lot of them are clueless when it comes to their own rules and policies.

For instance, my wife adopted my surname and we paid money to have her name legally changed through a lawyer who drew up a deed poll.

Prior to doing this, we first checked with ICA whether a deed poll would allow my wife to bear a different surname, and they assured us that ICA would follow exactly as per the deed poll.

New ID was created, and new biometric passport was made. Everything looked OK. HOWEVER, on their computer system, they still didn't change my wife's surname.

It was only when we arrived at the Australian embassy to get the visa stamp transferred to new passport they told us that the name (down at the scan portion on the bottom of the passport) didn't match the name at the top.

So, we went back to ICA - they accused US of not going about the right procedure, that the deed poll shold have had "mrs" in the front for them to accept the new name at the beginning as a new surname. They said that we needed to spend more money if we wanted this changed again, and that they had followed procedure exactly.

We pointed out that at every step of the way we had personally come in and told each and every ICA officer what the new surname was, and that the mistake should never have happened. If we wanted the same surname all over again we wouldn't have had wasted $200 paying for new documents and a lawyer, as the old ones already possessed the old surname.

After spending a day there, they finally fixed the problem. BUT. they wouldn't return the passport to us (which had the visa already transferred to it). They said they needed to retain this as it's the new biometric passport.

I explained that we needed this as we needed to transfer once again the visa from this passport to the newly issued replacement one. All they were willing to supply was a photocopy.

Anyway.. arriving at the Australian Embassy, they said that they needed the old passport to stamp the old visa sticker. That at the very least, the new passport should have been stamped as being a replacement passport by the ICA. I explained to the gentlemen that this information wasn't even volunteered by ICA and we were there the entire day.

We were lucky he was in a good mood and allowed us to make a Statutory declaration stating what happened to the other passport, that it had been retained by ICA. He then issued us with the new (2nd) visa sticker.

So in all, I don't feel all the staff's training there at ICA are fully up to standard. They might advise you one thing, but it doesn't mean that's the way it will happen.

[Mezman]

Just for reference for anyone interested, I finally received my PR this week! I'm ecstatic about that since I will no longer be held hostage to the current shitty contract that I'm bound to.

So my PR application was made in March, and now 4 months later I have my PR. The application was made under the skilled professional/technical scheme.

Got my agency to sign the form to complete the formalities, little do they know it's probably the last thing they'll ever be signing for me!

So when I break contract soon now that I have my PR, I just hope that they have no recourse to contact ICA and kick up a stink that I used them just to get my PR and blah blah blah. Hell, they used me needing their sponsorship for my S pass to hold me hostage with terrible pay!!! So I figure we're about even

Good luck to everyone whom is still waiting for the good news!

[sundaymorningstaple]

Let's just hope breaking this contract won't sour future employer's opinions of your dependability and accountability to the company you are trying to join. Just a thought. I personally will crap on an employee who doesn't fulfill his initial term of the contract as I wouldn't want future employers to get screwed after investing in an employee who can't be depended up uphold his end of the bargain....

Oh regarding your last paragraph, nobody forced you to join the company did they? They made an offer, you accepted it. Nobody twisted your arm.

[Mezman]

Well look at it this way, breaking contract or not, wouldn't it completely silly of me to work the next 7 months getting only a less than half the pay that I should be getting, when I technically don't have to, just for the sake of fulfilling a contract? Is this honestly the path that you'd choose to take if you had a family to support?

At the end of the day, it's just the contracting agency that I'm technically employed by and I don't care about them. My company understands my position and they are cool with that as I've already given them the heads up.

We all do what we have to do to attain the goal that we're striving for. For me, it was my PR. I've had to put up with 4 months of almost slave labour to get it. In a sense, the system twisted my arm as it doesn't present much of an option for those seeking PR status. Now that I've attained my goal, in all honesty, it would be completely and utterly stupid of me to maintain my ludicrous wage, by choice, for an agency that I'm never going to work for ever again.

I'm willing to pay the penalty of breaking a contract which is one months salary. Beyond that, I don't see the big deal.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Good luck. Your word is definitely not that of a gentleman and your signature worth even less apparently. As I said you signed the dotted line willingly. Hopefully, you will get your just rewards at some point. Maybe you'll even be an employer some day and hire somebody just like you.....

[ksl]

Well look at it this way, breaking contract or not, wouldn't it completely silly of me to work the next 7 months getting only a less than half the pay that I should be getting, when I technically don't have to, just for the sake of fulfilling a contract? Is this honestly the path that you'd choose to take if you had a family to support?

At the end of the day, it's just the contracting agency that I'm technically employed by and I don't care about them. My company understands my position and they are cool with that as I've already given them the heads up.

We all do what we have to do to attain the goal that we're striving for. For me, it was my PR. I've had to put up with 4 months of almost slave labour to get it. In a sense, the system twisted my arm as it doesn't present much of an option for those seeking PR status. Now that I've attained my goal, in all honesty, it would be completely and utterly stupid of me to maintain my ludicrous wage, by choice, for an agency that I'm never going to work for ever again.

I'm willing to pay the penalty of breaking a contract which is one months salary. Beyond that, I don't see the big deal.

Obviously you are a guy with no ethics and will also reap your just rewards for your inability to stick to a contract, one day you may also be an employer! This kind of mentality is good for no one, other than the devils work! Be warned, you are on the wrong side of a good honest person, just to move forward in the world and it will punish you! Honesty and ethics are what keeps a person on the straight and narrow road, what would your parents think? No need to answer if they was the same! But mark my words you have been warned and you are being watched.

[Mezman]

Ethics and morals are one thing, but by your steadfast refusal to even see beyond the mere dotted line to the circumstances beyond paint you as somewhat close minded.

There's there rule, and there are always exceptions to it. There are morals and ethics, but in relational to what? Am I more duty bound to my employer? Or am I more duty bound to my family? Answer me that.

Are you really taking the high road if your stubbornness to fulfill the terms of your contract equate to a huge impact on your family?

It's great to be sitting up yonder on a high horse and wag the finger at those passing below. But you sound like a somewhat jaded individual whom seems to always prefer taking a dim view of society at large.

Yes I used to run my own business and I was an employer. And currently I am responsible for employing and managing a large team. One thing I will never do is hold someone as hostage to their circumstances to restrict their right to negotiate for a fair and deserved wage.