Tenancy agreement

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Paulacobi
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Tenancy agreement

Post by Paulacobi » Sun, 22 Feb 2009 12:35 pm

I would like to know one thing.

I have moved with my husband to Singapore for one year, we rented a flat for one year but now, we have to return to Europe.

We had read the tenancy agreement, and it say that if we break the contract the deposit for one year will be for the landlord. But we talk with our representant and he told us that the representant of the landlord say that maybe we have to pay all the months until one year even if we don't stay here.

Our tenancy agreement doesn't say anything about this but it has a clause saying: "All of the foregoing is without prejudice to any other rights or claims by the landlord agains the tenant in respect of such breach by the tenant."

So the question is, does it have the right and is it legal to ask for the one year rent when we have to leave singapore?

Thanks

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sundaymorningstaple
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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 22 Feb 2009 2:08 pm

Yep. It's a very good possibility. I would suggest you seek proper legal advice however as a forum doesn't guarantee totally accurate information. But if you are breaking the lease without a Diplomatic Clause, then yes, it is highly possible. Even if you do have a Diplomatic Clause, it depends how long you have been there as to how much penalty would be involved to legally terminate the lease early.

Good Luck.

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Oh, one other thing, we frown on multiple posts of the same message on this forum. Most of us reach & keep up to date on all of them so it would be seen by the same people who just get aggravated when seening a post that they read 10 minutes earlier. The duplicate in the General Forum has been deleted.

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SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by ksl » Sun, 22 Feb 2009 4:46 pm

I would like to suggest that almost all contracts are not legal binding until they have been tested in court.

The reason is quite simple, the landlord is out to reap as much as possible, so the contract will be always in his favour, even though you sign it, doesn't make it legal binding until it has been through Court. You would be given a chance to explain your case, and a fair judgement would be expected, however no one knows this out come.

You have a genuine reason for breach of contract, and the landlord almost certainly laid a trap for you, so i would call it entrapment with him being in the industry of renting out, he should have known better, you are new to Singapore and have been taken advantage of. Tell him you will never pay anything, so he may has well settle for the deposit. while you whistle yankee doodle dandy

PS: I raise the question simply because he is dealing with international tenants and not local Singaporeans. Which may bring it under international law and not Singapore law. Although i should imagine, to fight the case would cost much more than what you would have to pay! Isn't it just easier to say keep dreaming :) and leave.

Singapore does favour landlords, but the norm is to pay 1 month rent if the tenant terminates and the full deposit is returned, according to global property guide
http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Asia ... and-Tenant
Last edited by ksl on Sun, 22 Feb 2009 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Paulacobi
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Post by Paulacobi » Sun, 22 Feb 2009 5:10 pm

PS: I raise the question simply because he is dealing with international tenants and not local Singaporeans. Which may bring it under international law and not Singapore law. Although i should imagine, to fight the case would cost much more than what you would have to pay! Isn't it just easier to say keep dreaming Smile and leave.


I don't know, I guess that if you're living in Singapore you might be under singaporean law, no matter what your nationality is.

The big question after all is: is it legal to do that? and i guess if the worse comes the worse. what happens if we refuse to pay and leave the country?

thanks for the info

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Post by ksl » Sun, 22 Feb 2009 5:21 pm

Paulacobi wrote:PS: I raise the question simply because he is dealing with international tenants and not local Singaporeans. Which may bring it under international law and not Singapore law. Although i should imagine, to fight the case would cost much more than what you would have to pay! Isn't it just easier to say keep dreaming Smile and leave.


I don't know, I guess that if you're living in Singapore you might be under singaporean law, no matter what your nationality is.

The big question after all is: is it legal to do that? and i guess if the worse comes the worse. what happens if we refuse to pay and leave the country?

thanks for the info
Entrapment in SIngapore is legal, although i guess the courts may look at who is using it, Police can get away with it, but we have to be optimistic and hope the system is fair and not used to encourage crime. So I would hope that it may be on a case by case scenario. I certainly wouldn't pay up any more, and would expect to kiss the deposit goodbye. I don't know Singapore law, it may not be a criminal offence to owe rental money, but a civil one, which may get scrapped after a period of time...who cares, if one is leaving! It would be very difficult to enforce if under Singapore law, if International law, they could enforce it. My point is the case isn't tested until it goes through court.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 22 Feb 2009 9:47 pm

If you are in Singapore, the Singapore law will prevail. Matter of fact, the US Embassy goes to great length to stress that to it's citizens. Regardless of your nationality, if it is a local case of a contract signed in Singapore then it governed by Singapore Law.

ksl, I believe that's dangerously thin ice and could damn near be construed as giving information that is bordering or advising someone to deliberately break the law just to test the system. [-X
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Post by jusjoe » Sun, 22 Feb 2009 9:55 pm

Perhaps you would like to speak to your landlord regarding your predicament? Not all landlords are harsh. My tenants approached me when he needed to break the tenancy. He had a valid reason to leave. Both my husband and I didn't pursue the matter.

I would advise to speak to your landlord :)

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Post by ksl » Sun, 22 Feb 2009 10:20 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If you are in Singapore, the Singapore law will prevail. Matter of fact, the US Embassy goes to great length to stress that to it's citizens. Regardless of your nationality, if it is a local case of a contract signed in Singapore then it governed by Singapore Law.

ksl, I believe that's dangerously thin ice and could damn near be construed as giving information that is bordering or advising someone to deliberately break the law just to test the system. [-X
You maybe right SMS so I suggest they get some free legal advice

http://www.pa.gov.sg/MungoBlobs/1020/99 ... 060209.pdf

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Post by andy21 » Wed, 25 Feb 2009 9:58 am

KSL is correct, the clause is there to frighten tenants. The average tenancy agreement in Singapore is effectively regulated under contract law and not property law in Singapore.

Tell the agent that you have no choice but to surrender the lease, but you are willing to pay some kind of compensation to the landlord over the issue (you are I presume?) since the landlord will incur some financial loss from your unforeseen action. BUT there is no way you will be paying off the remaining months of your lease in full.

Tell him to get back to you soon. Let him know exactly when you are leaving.

The agent will be really stupid to press the issue because once you return to Europe, and leave no financial assets here (ie money in banks), there is to all intents and purposes no way the landlord will be able to recover anything from you apart from keeping the one month deposit you paid.

Don't run away though, you clearly know it's not the ethical thing to do. As jusjoe said, not all landlords are unreasonable, and I'd imagine most are not.

Just one of those little pro-business things that happen in Singapore, keep the rules vague, make sure no one really knows what's happening and hope the little guys allow themselves to be screwed over.

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Post by ksl » Wed, 25 Feb 2009 4:34 pm

I suspected it was contract law and not property law, when i challenged my own landlord, the only thing he came back with, was to put a padlock on the gate and he didn't succeed at that, after i verbally informed of the difference in a contract law and no property laws, and he broke the contract, not me and he didn't even get to keep the 1 month deposit, because i didn't pay the last months rent.

Which he was trying to squeeze out of me, after i gave him 12 weeks notice to the day I moved.

What he was doing was completely illegal, and he is one of the richest landlords and realtors in Singapore...inherited his fortunes and is in the local news quite often over screwing his own family and tenants..They have a great deal of power in Singapore and every cent is a 1000$ to them. 100 million in the bank and they fight like cat & dog over it.

Although everything they do is borderline on the illegal...with no property laws in place, for either landlord or tenant.

You may find at the legal council you are only obliged to keep the landlord informed of your departure and forfeit the 1 month in rent, it is worth knowing.

I went myself to the legal council and was advised not to worry, at all, because the big boys like to try it on, whatever that means, but I wasn't prepared to back off, and let him screw me.

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Post by andy21 » Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:34 am

Oh well, deleted for personal safety reasons.
Last edited by andy21 on Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 02 Mar 2009 12:21 pm

Andy21, you should know better than that! Answering that could mean a libel suite that this board doesn't need.

Name and shame is fine if the case went to court and was tried. Otherwise........... [-X
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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