Singapore PR paying much more for HDB upgrading??

[moneysense]

Hi,

I have heard that SPR actually pays much more than a Singaporean when it comes to HDB upgrading, for eg lift upgrades. Is this a known true fact?
Anyone has insight how much a SPR HDB resident typically paid for a lift upgrading comparing to a Singaporean?
Thanks.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Yes that is true. It is also true that SPR's have now got reduced subsidies at Government Polyclinics & Hospitals as well. Our Tax dollars are just as good and our male offspring have to do NS but we are screwed by the government even though often PR's make more money (hence the reason why they were given PR) so pay more taxes. We are also not recipients of any of the government's handouts either. Course we cannot vote but that one is to be expected even though our sons could get killed defending their right to be a PR!

I don't know on the lift upgrading costs, but there is a price differential as as a PR you are not subsidized like a citizen is. You have to buy your flat on the open market. Ours isn't scheduled until sometime next year I think.

[xtasy010]

I found the following post in another forum but not sure how accurate the information is since the post was made over 2 years ago.

For Upgrading a PR needs to pay 6x what a citizen pays!

If u are on the original Lift level u not need to pay!

How much can't really say it will all depend on the estate involved n other factors etc.......but i can roughly tell u the range of 5 thousand to 10+ thousand.

Even if u call the HDB to check they will not know also but they might be able to tell u when is the date of billing!

[moneysense]

We are in the midst of unfavorable recession and yet we're not getting the right subsidies from government.. I'm currently looking for a resale HDB property and this is something I should keep in mind in near future.
Thanks for the information folks.

[yoongf]

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10208p.nsf ... enDocument

All govt policies are available on govt websites.

[sierra2469alpha]

...It is also true that SPR's have now got reduced subsidies at Government Polyclinics & Hospitals as well. Our Tax dollars are just as good and our male offspring have to do NS but we are screwed by the government even though often PR's make more money (hence the reason why they were given PR) so pay more taxes. We are also not recipients of any of the government's handouts either. Course we cannot vote but that one is to be expected even though our sons could get killed defending their right to be a PR! ...but there is a price differential as as a PR you are not subsidized like a citizen is. You have to buy your flat on the open market. Ours isn't scheduled until sometime next year I think.

Interesting post, SMS - thanks. At the risk of hijacking, I wonder why some of us expats would even consider PR apart from buying landed property (Ms. C and I do not have children, so the NS stuff doesn't apply in our situation, however I think it's a very good idea as long as it is done properly). We plan on staying for a long time, if that helps anyone's repsonse.

Looking forward to hearing ideas...Capt. P

[sundaymorningstaple]

P,

I used to be very very pro PR here. However, since Y2K I have become increasing disillusioned with the way long Term PR's are being treated. If you wonder why I defend NS on the one hand and then rant like my post above on the other, it's very easily understood by anybody who looks at things from a long time PR perspective.

[rant#2]

I was given my PR back in the days when it was damned hard to get PR. You literally had to jump through hoops to get it. In those days it was still quota controlled. (It may well still be as well - I don't see the ethnic percentages changing any even though the Chinese majority have the lowest fertility rate in a country who's overall fertility is the 3rd lowest in the world.)

Back then, we still were admonished that our male offspring, if they took up PR as well, would be liable to do National Service. We accepted that as otherwise we were treated with respect and acknowledged for what we could to for the country. We paid taxes at the same rates as citizens and we enjoyed the same medical subsidies. We did not enjoy the HDB subsidies or the ability to vote but we did inherit the right to have our sons possibly killed by the military.

Now, when you consider that I have given over a quarter of a century to this country (yes, in the early days it suited me as well) and I am no longer in the Prime of my life at 61. Now, when I might need medical help (tends to happen with age) they are throwing the screws to us and taking it all away from us bits at a time. Additionally, while I can understand not giving us things like the Citizens shares (pork - usually just before an election), but to deny us other benefits that are a direct result of our higher contributions to the country thereby helping to increase GDP (by both our output and our earning/tax power), you would think they would also include us in their reward system. I have become increasing vocal because they keep asking for more and taking more away at the same time. Frankly, I've had enough and as soon as my son finishes NS I'm outta here and this little red dot can kiss my arse! Forever. Any good feelings I've had about this island are rapidly disappearing. I've had lots of fond memories here but they are increasingly being overshadowed by a total mistrust of the government. They have sucked the juice out of me for a quarter of a century and now they just want to grind me to a pulp as well. No thanks. You are welcome to it.

[/rant #2]

[metroguy]

Happily lived for a decade on EP. Never applied for PR and never will, though at times I was too tempted to.

I knew I had to leave one day when I entered. I think the clock is ticking now. I am on PEP now and will leave before it expires.

I never enjoyed any subsidy at the cost of my son's life.

[Saint]

For me it was an easy choice as I'm here for a long haul now and I didn't want an EP to control and decide my life here. PR gives me a lot more freedom to decide how and when I want to make changes. I'm actually quite proud being a PR and I've noticed I get quite a lot of respect, not only from locals, but from other Expats.

[Addadude]

It took me about 11 years (and approximately 3 months of non-stop nagging from my Significant Other) to get around to applying for my PR. In fact I had the application form tucked away in my desk drawer for about 4 years before I got around to filling it out! (I hate forms.)

For me, the only reason I applied was to ensure that my continued stay in Singapore was not subject to whims and fancies of the company that employed me. The CPF was an added bonus.

[ksl]

I also believe that it's more beneficial to buy HDB being a PR, rather than renting or buying an over priced condo, having been in the building industry it took me about 5 minutes to decide that their would be no way, I would throw money into a Condo, due to the size and quality along with the cost of foreign workers to build it.

No wonder the property market bust's bubbles, when so many expats are recruited, Now it's turning the other way, and HDB price is still on the up, along with rental price....But from a PR perspective is it better to rent or buy?

I see rental money down the drain.....and a chance to leave a property to my daughter by purchasing HDB. I think SMS is quite right, it's really not on for the government to discriminate against PR's and something should be mentioned, maybe a dedicated website to the cause with local MP's dragged in for support!

Some sort of consolidation of PR's is required to get any kind of bargaining power, for medical rates also... Singapore is bloody over rated when it comes to hospitals, that I do know.

I have been very disappointed having to pay for scans that cannot be used for anything, because the quality is so poor, worse still that consultant specialist doctors, never informed me that the scan couldn't be used. Imagine the consultation fee alone is 99$ and 800$ for the scan and you get nothing in return

Hence my trip to Taiwan were prices are less than half those of Singapore's, with far better customer service, I've been treated like a VIP here, and would recommend it for any westerner.

Obviously English is not widely spoken, but all doctors can speak and nurses do understand, and will always find someone that does speak good English...So I do have a very sound contact in Taiwan through the hospital. Mmm Could be enterprising Maybe I should be an English guide

[sierra2469alpha]

VERY interesting posts by all who replied, many thanks.

I guess our situation will become interesting if the "company" decides to not pay our rent as it is doing for the initial 3 years here (just under one year into that). I agree, the rents AND purchase prices for condos are pure evil, and yes KSL I really hear what you're saying about prices for them (even though they are dropping) given the underlying quality. On a side note, on a PSF basis we could buy the same BR condo in Sydney which is actually on a wharf with harbour views on both sides for close of $SGD190 PSF less and the standard of finish is way up to standard. That's one ratio we're really stuggling with.

We'd love to stay, we really do, but purchase of landed property means PR for at least one of us, rather than paying rent (haven't done that for years!). That being said, the next regional station for us could well be elsewhere, but we do love Singapore and think we're fitting in well (even got a couple of local friends!), so I guess time will tell what we do about accommodation here.

Sorry gang for hijacking. My bad.

C & P.

[jb_slinky]

hi SMS,

interesting rant you have there. i just realized how it makes sense. i just hope someone will voice that in a newspaper so someone from the government will see it and realize the contributions a PR makes and should be getting the same subsidies as a citizen. and hopefully they would change it.

i guess they've changed it because they want to "encourage" PR to become a Singaporean citizen because of old population. I heard that they did some analysis: several years from now the citizens would have been reduced by 33% i think. that's why they're encouraging citizens to make babies.

but you can't blame the citizens for not choosing to have many babies, especially with the rising cost of living and inflation.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Saint, I was also very proud to be a PR and still am. I also enjoy the respect from the locals as well (and most are in agreement with my grouses and can add to them as well). I'm even an Executive Member of our GRO Residents Committee! I can't be more than that unless I take up Citizenship. But all that respect is from the People. Not from the Government. There we are just Human Capital (favorite term of HR folk - although as an HR Mgr I hate the term) Human Capital means nothing more than a disposable asset. Once you have gotten maximum mileage out of it just discard it as worthless even if it's still working good, there is no more tax deduction as it's fully depreciated. So you just push it aside. Course the government is doing that with their own citizens as well, but they at least get to keep their subsidies and get pork occasionally just before the government legislates another way to shaft them.

This response was unfortunately added to Saint's post above in error, as it should have been mine own post. I have removed it and put it here. Sorry Saint.

[sundaymorningstaple]

hi SMS,

interesting rant you have there. i just realized how it makes sense. i just hope someone will voice that in a newspaper so someone from the government will see it and realize the contributions a PR makes and should be getting the same subsidies as a citizen. and hopefully they would change it.

i guess they've changed it because they want to "encourage" PR to become a Singaporean citizen because of old population. I heard that they did some analysis: several years from now the citizens would have been reduced by 33% i think. that's why they're encouraging citizens to make babies.

but you can't blame the citizens for not choosing to have many babies, especially with the rising cost of living and inflation.

jb_slinky,

The way I see it, why would you think you can force PR's to take up citizenship when you cannot stop or even slow down the rising tide of local's who are fleeing this sinking ship. The way I see it, the more you take away from us, the less are going to stay. Remember, the average person applying for PR is a former EP holder and they normally have a little more on the ball than the local version - that why they are here in the first place. The Government has lost touch with the ground (they should do more than just have grassroots committees - they should both listen to them AND actually do something about it) Now they just politely listen and say look at us. We care. We listen to the ground. Just listening doesn't accomplish much except to help determine how much pork they need to give the masses just before they shove another tax up their butts/down their throats.

Actually, they are shooting themselves in the foot. If you think about it, with the new PEP being good for 5 years more and more potential PR's are opting for that as they don't get chunks of their salaries hung up in the CPF mill (actually a good thing though considering commercial interest rates). This eliminates the primary reason the majority of people take up PR in the first place. Only to not have to leave the country in 2 weeks while they are trying to find a new job when they get either retrenched or replaced with the new model who is unproven but 20 years younger.

The lack of babies is only a result of the government policies of the past that stressed winning in business was the be all and end all. The population heard that and became a victim of the self-gratification virus and babies tend to get in the way of me-me-me. (The shortsighted baby policy back in the late '70's didn't help either.) The joy of raising families has been somewhat diluted by the electronic age where children influenced by the worst in their peers and are protected against being disciplined and know that they now can control the parents. Therefore why would any parent want to gamble on giving up their pleasure as DINKS to be saddled with boorish kids who know no respect for anyone or anything. Can't say as I blame them and the government is the one to blame in their myopic blinkered view of the little red dot twenty to thirty years ago.

Flawed perspective? Maybe. But a lot of long term PR's like me have the same flawed perspective so maybe there may be a grain of truth in what I say.

sms