Singapore Expats Forum

Bicycle versus truck

Discuss about the latest news & interesting topics, real life experience or other out of topic discussions with locals & expatriates in Singapore.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 34273
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004
Location: Still Fishing!
Contact:

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:35 pm

Vaucluse wrote: Oh, add anyone over 65 and from Florida to that list.


Whew! Got a few more years left. and last I checked my farm was in Maryland! :cool:

User avatar
Wind In My Hair
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2306
Joined: Tue, 19 Jul 2005

Postby Wind In My Hair » Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:52 pm

Vaucluse wrote:Having read through this plethora of 'awful Singaporaen drivers' the conclusion that I come upmwith is that we should chuck all these pesky yellow and brown people across the waters and that only white people should be alowed to live and drive here . . .

:lol:

Vaucluse, you are right as usual. I humbly apologise for being on this island and getting in everyone's way...

User avatar
Vaucluse
Director
Director
Posts: 3443
Joined: Sun, 10 Jul 2005

Postby Vaucluse » Thu, 05 Feb 2009 12:54 pm

Wind In My Hair wrote:
Vaucluse wrote:Having read through this plethora of 'awful Singaporaen drivers' the conclusion that I come upmwith is that we should chuck all these pesky yellow and brown people across the waters and that only white people should be alowed to live and drive here . . .

:lol:

Vaucluse, you are right as usual. I humbly apologise for being on this island and getting in everyone's way...


That's ok, WIMH . . . As long as you recognise and accept your genetic shortcomings . . . you may now get on your knees in front of me and polish my shoes . . . just don't drive your car to my place to do so.



(please please no-one forward this excange to Mrs 'Cluse!)
......................................................

'nuff said Image

bigfilsing
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed, 04 Jan 2006

Postby bigfilsing » Thu, 05 Feb 2009 3:01 pm

Vaucluse wrote:Having read through this plethora of 'awful Singaporaen drivers' the conclusion that I come upmwith is that we should chuck all these pesky yellow and brown people across the waters and that only white people should be alowed to live and drive here . . .

Of course there are exceptions. Italians, French, Belgians, Portuguese, Greeks, Dutch, Spaniards and their ilk should also be banned from driving or even enetring this island paradise. Oh, add anyone over 65 and from Florida to that list.


I think it has little to do with nationality. People who clearly can't drive shouldn't be allowed to. They are endangering my life which obviously pisses me off no end ( so forgive me for threating to punch your lights out when you drive like a muppet. It's self defence) !!!!!!!! not to mention everybody elses and their own.

Singapore seems to have a lot more than it's fair share of incompetent drivers ...lets face it. And when Singaporeans are very bullish when they hit the top of world listings they shouldn't just bury their heads in the sand and scream foreigner arrogance when it's a "bad" list.

User avatar
Wind In My Hair
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2306
Joined: Tue, 19 Jul 2005

Postby Wind In My Hair » Thu, 05 Feb 2009 8:26 pm

bigfilsing wrote:I think it has little to do with nationality. People who clearly can't drive shouldn't be allowed to. They are endangering my life which obviously pisses me off no end ( so forgive me for threating to punch your lights out when you drive like a muppet. It's self defence) !!!!!!!! not to mention everybody elses and their own.

Singapore seems to have a lot more than it's fair share of incompetent drivers ...lets face it. And when Singaporeans are very bullish when they hit the top of world listings they shouldn't just bury their heads in the sand and scream foreigner arrogance when it's a "bad" list.


It would be easier for me to accept your criticism and advice if you came from a country with a lower per capita road fatality rate (deaths per 100,000) than ours. Unfortunately that does not seem to be the case:

Singapore
No. of road fatalities in 2006 = 190
Population in 2006 = 4.5 million
Per capita road fatality rate = 4.22

Sources:
Singapore road fatalities in 2006
Singapore population 2006

UK
No. of road fatalities in 2006 = 3172
Population in 2006 = 60 million
Per capita road fatality rate = 5.28

Source:
UK and US road fatalities 2006

USA
No. of road fatalities in 2006 = 42,000
Population in 2006 = 300 million
Per capita road fatality rate = 14

Source: same as for UK above

Other countries
Singapore's per capita road fatality rate of 4.57 in 2004 was higher only than Malta's and lower than all other countries including the OECD.

Sources:
Multi-country road fatality data 2004
Singapore road fatalities 2004
Singapore population 2004


So you see, your life is actually less endangered here than back home or almost anywhere else. For your sake I'd welcome you to stay except that you'd obviously be miserable living among people who piss you off so much. :)

Plavt
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4289
Joined: Wed, 18 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Plavt » Thu, 05 Feb 2009 8:52 pm

Since the UK has a population of 60 million against Singapore's 4.5 million one can safely say we are no more endangered here than Singapore, the same being true of the US. As for bigfilsing's quote about drivers who cannot drive they exist anywhere and are on the road everyday. However, I read not only here but on other boards by residents of Singapore, Singaporeans appear to have a nonchalant disregard for emergency vehicles answering calls. Whereas in Britain one sees drivers moving out of the way regularly so many of us here are in less danger than in Singapore. :tongue:

User avatar
banana
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 961
Joined: Tue, 24 May 2005

Postby banana » Thu, 05 Feb 2009 9:27 pm

Plavt wrote:Since the UK has a population of 60 million against Singapore's 4.5 million one can safely say we are no more endangered here than Singapore, the same being true of the US. As for bigfilsing's quote about drivers who cannot drive they exist anywhere and are on the road everyday. However, I read not only here but on other boards by residents of Singapore, Singaporeans appear to have a nonchalant disregard for emergency vehicles answering calls. Whereas in Britain one sees drivers moving out of the way regularly so many of us here are in less danger than in Singapore. :tongue:


wrong. it means that in the UK, you have a 25% higher chance of dying in a car accident while in the US it is more than 3 times as great. now, granting that UK drivers are more considerate to emergency vehicles, what does it say about the higher death toll?

poorly trained EMTs? larger number of high impact collisions? the weather?
some signatures are more equal than others

Plavt
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4289
Joined: Wed, 18 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Plavt » Thu, 05 Feb 2009 9:50 pm

banana wrote:
wrong. it means that in the UK, you have a 25% higher chance of dying in a car accident while in the US it is more than 3 times as great. now, granting that UK drivers are more considerate to emergency vehicles, what does it say about the higher death toll?

poorly trained EMTs? larger number of high impact collisions? the weather?


You have to take in to account the volume of traffic on the roads which is greater here than Singapore. The emergency services here are anything but poorly trained. Although their progress on the ground is often hampered by traffic volume often exacerbated by roads not designed for the frequency and sheer numbers that use them. In addition distance travelled are greater with weather conditions being often being a significant factor.

User avatar
banana
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 961
Joined: Tue, 24 May 2005

Postby banana » Thu, 05 Feb 2009 10:03 pm

Plavt wrote:
banana wrote:
wrong. it means that in the UK, you have a 25% higher chance of dying in a car accident while in the US it is more than 3 times as great. now, granting that UK drivers are more considerate to emergency vehicles, what does it say about the higher death toll?

poorly trained EMTs? larger number of high impact collisions? the weather?


You have to take in to account the volume of traffic on the roads which is greater here than Singapore. The emergency services here are anything but poorly trained. Although their progress on the ground is often hampered by traffic volume often exacerbated by roads not designed for the frequency and sheer numbers that use them. In addition distance travelled are greater with weather conditions being often being a significant factor.


so you're saying while UK drivers are more considerate, it offers limited help as there's too many of them and the roads are crap? and the little drizzles (barring the recent freak snowfall) affects road usability more than the tropical downpours here? or maybe the urban planning in the UK places hospitals in remote locations?

i think the real reason why people think drivers here suck (and on a personal level i tend to agree) is because of overcrowding. we're just in closer proximity to idiots than we would be elsewhere. hence it FEELS like there's more of them, when it's really the same anywhere.
some signatures are more equal than others

Plavt
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4289
Joined: Wed, 18 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Plavt » Thu, 05 Feb 2009 10:16 pm

banana wrote:so you're saying while UK drivers are more considerate, it offers limited help as there's too many of them and the roads are crap?


Well unfortunately that is often the case in London sorry I don't have any videos to show evidence of what happens.

and the little drizzles (barring the recent freak snowfall) affects road usability more than the tropical downpours here? or maybe the urban planning in the UK places hospitals in remote locations?


A little more complicated than that if complicated is the right word, most if not all counties have airborne police and air ambulances (helicopters) in addition to ground forces, which as you know are affected by more than the recent snowfall. Urban planning could be a factor given the number of hospitals that have either closed or not equipped to deal with accidents and emergencies. As an example the nearest Accident and Emergency ward (A&E) to my home town of Chippenham is located at Bath a distance of around twenty miles.

i think the real reason why people think drivers here suck (and on a personal level i tend to agree) is because of overcrowding. we're just in closer proximity to idiots than we would be elsewhere. hence it FEELS like there's more of them, when it's really the same anywhere.


I think you may well be right, in the four times I visited Singapore I can't say I ever saw any of the outlandish behaviour in fact drivers seemed more curteous stopping for me when I was half way across a road - maybe I look intimidating or they just like me. :lol:

User avatar
banana
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 961
Joined: Tue, 24 May 2005

Postby banana » Thu, 05 Feb 2009 10:43 pm

Plavt wrote:Well unfortunately that is often the case in London sorry I don't have any videos to show evidence of what happens.


no need, i have seen it for myself though not in London. and i put it to all the naysayers that it is a similar situation in Singapore.

overcrowding means that most people are forced to reduce their personal sphere of influence to a much smaller bubble. add that to almost bumper to bumper traffic conditions and you get a situation where it is virtually impossible to be considerate.

the first 5-10 vehicles in the path of the emergency vehicle may want to get out of the way but the car beyond that may not realise the need. same for vehicles in the adjacent lanes.

so you see, we're not any less considerate, we just have more in our immediate vicinity to worry about.

Plavt wrote:A little more complicated than that if complicated is the right word, most if not all counties have airborne police and air ambulances (helicopters) in addition to ground forces, which as you know are affected by more than the recent snowfall. Urban planning could be a factor given the number of hospitals that have either closed or not equipped to deal with accidents and emergencies. As an example the nearest Accident and Emergency ward (A&E) to my home town of Chippenham is located at Bath a distance of around twenty miles.


trust the English to consider Bath an emergency.

Plavt wrote:I think you may well be right, in the four times I visited Singapore I can't say I ever saw any of the outlandish behaviour in fact drivers seemed more curteous stopping for me when I was half way across a road - maybe I look intimidating or they just like me. :lol:


or maybe we're just not as backward as you think :cool:
some signatures are more equal than others

Plavt
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4289
Joined: Wed, 18 May 2005
Location: United Kingdom

Postby Plavt » Thu, 05 Feb 2009 10:52 pm

banana wrote:trust the English to consider Bath an emergency.



It is........ :lol:

User avatar
EADG
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 880
Joined: Thu, 01 Sep 2005

Postby EADG » Sun, 08 Feb 2009 10:11 am

Lot's of data here....

But it doesn't explain why nearly everyone I know here from the UK, Japan, US, Aussie, and some parts of Europe, who all have their fair share of misfit drivers, continue to marvel at the local proclivity for indecisive lane straddling and unannounced land changing, amusing but heart-stopping stopping patterns, ostensibly last-minute direction changes, and the general sense of drivers not really sensing what's going on around them, or, sensing it but not caring.

But I'm open to that there's a reason.

Until seeing it otherwise then it's the view from the taxi, I'm not putting car or a bicycle on these roads.....

There is that slight, minuscule, infinitesimal possibility that in those milliseconds during driving situations on the roads here, at least some are occupied by the distraction of kiasu considerations, which raises the chance for an incident.
Ape Shall Not Kill Ape

User avatar
banana
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 961
Joined: Tue, 24 May 2005

Postby banana » Sun, 08 Feb 2009 3:34 pm

EADG wrote:Lot's of data here....

But it doesn't explain why nearly everyone I know here from the UK, Japan, US, Aussie, and some parts of Europe, who all have their fair share of misfit drivers, continue to marvel at the local proclivity for indecisive lane straddling and unannounced land changing, amusing but heart-stopping stopping patterns, ostensibly last-minute direction changes, and the general sense of drivers not really sensing what's going on around them, or, sensing it but not caring.

But I'm open to that there's a reason.

Until seeing it otherwise then it's the view from the taxi, I'm not putting car or a bicycle on these roads.....

There is that slight, minuscule, infinitesimal possibility that in those milliseconds during driving situations on the roads here, at least some are occupied by the distraction of kiasu considerations, which raises the chance for an incident.


Then you might be taking taxis for a while. Probably just as well, far better wealth re-distribution than other forms of PT or the pockets of fatcat car dealers.

Unlike the grid pattern of most major cities, the urban planning in Singapore is such that if you miss a turning, there's a high chance you will be stuck in another jam. Or worse, slapped with additional ERP charges. If you're in a cab, it means a more expensive ride. Speak to your cabbie the next time and ask him how it's like when a female passenger feels she overpaid by 10 cents.

Lanes and parking lots are also generally narrower than in other cities.

Throw in a government that barely stops short of constantly reminding the population we are merely numbers on their spreadsheets, that somehow the opinions of foreigners matter more and the threat of our women becoming 'maids in foreign countries' should we not jump through invisible hoops with acrobatic precision. Can you not see why most drivers here behave like they are cabbies in New York City?

I am not defending or justifying the behaviour of local motorists, as mentioned earlier I tend to agree things can be better. However, try to see things from their perspective once in a while. Be honest about it. Even the best trained dog will snap when backed into a corner.
some signatures are more equal than others

User avatar
Wind In My Hair
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2306
Joined: Tue, 19 Jul 2005

Postby Wind In My Hair » Sun, 08 Feb 2009 7:24 pm

EADG wrote:Lot's of data here....

But it doesn't explain why nearly everyone I know here from the UK, Japan, US, Aussie, and some parts of Europe, who all have their fair share of misfit drivers, continue to marvel at the local proclivity for indecisive lane straddling and unannounced land changing, amusing but heart-stopping stopping patterns, ostensibly last-minute direction changes, and the general sense of drivers not really sensing what's going on around them, or, sensing it but not caring.

But I'm open to that there's a reason.

The data was not meant to explain the driving patterns here, but to highlight that using the safety of one's life to justify verbally abusing local drivers is less factually defensible here than anywhere else.

You're really open to hearing a few possible explanations for what you just posted? Ok then.

a. You mix in a crowd of highly critical people.
b. Your selective memory retains more negative than positive comments.
c. Local drivers sense and react quickly to changes in traffic conditions.
d. Local drivers have poor spatial awareness.

My take is that the reality is a combination of all four reasons, though you're probably not open to the first two possibilities.

My sense (from comparing to your other posts) is also that you were milder and more careful in your choice of critical words this time because of the facts pointed out previously. That's all that post was trying to achieve - to get people to recognise subjective opinions for what they are instead of trying to pass them off as fact. My hope was that it would result in more polite, thoughtful discussion rather than a no-holds-barred free-for-all.

Like Banana, I agree that driving here can be improved. I stopped driving myself partly because I'm calmer off the roads without the aggravations of driving to constantly annoy me. Sigh, for the same reason I'm probably going to get off this forum soon...


  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests