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horror story on moving and seek your advice

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sin2008
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horror story on moving and seek your advice

Post by sin2008 » Thu, 08 Jan 2009 4:24 pm

We hired a moving company to ship our stuff to singapore. Today just received an email from the moving company that it seems that some of the boxes were opened and items missing.

Unfortunately we did not purchase the insurance. Also unfortunately that apparently there are other people's stuff in the same container.

Just wonder what we should do to now? The agent at singapore asked us to go to their warehouse but our date of arrival in singapore is a week later.

Thanks

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sierra2469alpha
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Post by sierra2469alpha » Thu, 08 Jan 2009 4:58 pm

Hmmm, first thoughts are - and we need much more info if anyone can help you work out a course of action:

1. Have the removalists identified where the boxes were opened? In transit? By Customs in Singapore? On the boat? When did it occur? What evidence do they have? Have they filed a police report (I assume not as your container is still in bonded storage?) Did they take photos? Was the container properly locked? Do they have evidence of any tampering with the container? Was it just your boxes or the other peoples (I assume you backfilled?) Were the other party's boxes tampered with? If so, where?

Basically, make like a cop and collect as much evidence. DON'T SIGN ANYTHING WITH YOUR SHIPPING COMPANY.

2. Have you got a full manifest of everything you sent?

3. While you don't have insurance (what were you THINKING???) there is a duty of care bestowed upon shipping and common carriers. Make sure you have all your paperwork.

Please try and post back as much detail you have, otherwise I suspect we cannot offer any advice.

Mr. P

[EDIT: Spelling (again) and added the do not sign anything]

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Post by sin2008 » Thu, 08 Jan 2009 9:01 pm

I know i have obviously made a bad mistake not buying the insurance. No, they have not filed a police report as they are waiting for me to check on the missing items (what a huge hassle that would be!)

I would ask the questions you have suggested first (to the agent at singapore I guess).
sierra2469alpha wrote:Hmmm, first thoughts are - and we need much more info if anyone can help you work out a course of action:

1. Have the removalists identified where the boxes were opened? In transit? By Customs in Singapore? On the boat? When did it occur? What evidence do they have? Have they filed a police report (I assume not as your container is still in bonded storage?) Did they take photos? Was the container properly locked? Do they have evidence of any tampering with the container? Was it just your boxes or the other peoples (I assume you backfilled?) Were the other party's boxes tampered with? If so, where?

Basically, make like a cop and collect as much evidence. DON'T SIGN ANYTHING WITH YOUR SHIPPING COMPANY.

2. Have you got a full manifest of everything you sent?

3. While you don't have insurance (what were you THINKING???) there is a duty of care bestowed upon shipping and common carriers. Make sure you have all your paperwork.

Please try and post back as much detail you have, otherwise I suspect we cannot offer any advice.

Mr. P

[EDIT: Spelling (again) and added the do not sign anything]

sin2008
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Post by sin2008 » Thu, 08 Jan 2009 9:08 pm

email from the Hong Kong agent:

I tried to contact your Singapore mobile but was unable to get in touch with you, so I am writing to inform you that there is an incident occured on your shipment.
We were advised by our Singapore partner agent that the container which contains your shipment was unfortunately vandalized and some cartons boxes were opened. An immediate
investigation was still in progress and this case have been reported to the police in Singapore already to follow up. At this moment, we still dont know when and where was this happened, i.e.
in Hong Kong or Singapore the exact location as investigation is still being carried out and once we have any updated news, we will inform you immediately. This case was found when our agent
opened the container.

As far as we know, most furnitures are still in place but some cartons boxes was opened and our Singapore agent has done their best to re-pack it if necessary. Delivery of your shipment will be
taken place asap and our Singapore agent will send a person to check and assist you with the inspection when they do the delivery. Please report any missing items and identify items
that doesnt belongs to you on the spot and a list of missing items is required to follow up.

Once again, we were very sorry that this has happened and we will do our best to assist you and provide you the latest information as you are not the only one who was affacted in this case.
We still have other customers on this container.

Email from the singapore agent (apparently a local agent hired by the hong kong agent)

We have found some discrepancy in the import cargo and the items are messy. We have manage to recover most of the items but some items may not belong to you. We have to sort this out prior to delivery date and if there's any missing, we will lodge a police report with the claim list provided by your good self for investigation and revert the outcome for insurance claim

Meanwhile, I suggest, if you can come over to our warehouse today or tomorrow to sort the items here prior to delivery will be good. Our address ...

Apparently there is discrepancy about police report.

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Post by sierra2469alpha » Thu, 08 Jan 2009 9:21 pm

Hmm...given nobody else is posting in about this then let me give you some advice (GANG please chime in here)

1. Do you know where the container is at the moment? If it is still ship-side (i.e. on dock or in bond) then tell them to gather all the information they have including the bonding tags and locks to your container (tell them you are appointing a legal represnentative- that should make them gather all the info required).

2. They say "...This case was found when our agent opened the container..." Where was it opened? In HKG? or in SIN - this isn't clear.

3. Is this a normal reputable carrier? I would lodge an immediate complaint with whoever you hired them through, and also tell them that you are engaging legal representation (see above).


4. I'd also just ring the local Customs office here (let me know if you need the number) and lodge a complaint with them - they are very helpful people and will give you better advice than Ms. C and I can.

5. If you are massively concerned about this, ring the police and tell them the situation, but make sure you have ALL the paperwork.

6. I have personally helped people out here so if this is all genuine, then I am happy to donate a bit of time and take my digital cameras for you (we'll nbeed some form of authorisation I think).

Cheers, P

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Post by durain » Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:40 pm

just my 2 cents...

start logging everything down, conversation, fone calls, who you speak to, get their names, log the time and date, etc. when you do go down to the dock to inspect your goods, take fotos or video of it.

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Post by sin2008 » Fri, 09 Jan 2009 12:13 am

sierra2469alpha wrote:Hmm...given nobody else is posting in about this then let me give you some advice (GANG please chime in here)

1. Do you know where the container is at the moment? If it is still ship-side (i.e. on dock or in bond) then tell them to gather all the information they have including the bonding tags and locks to your container (tell them you are appointing a legal represnentative- that should make them gather all the info required).

//the container is at Singapore - the damage was found when the singapore agent opened the container - that also answers your question 2

2. They say "...This case was found when our agent opened the container..." Where was it opened? In HKG? or in SIN - this isn't clear.

3. Is this a normal reputable carrier? I would lodge an immediate complaint with whoever you hired them through, and also tell them that you are engaging legal representation (see above).

//I don't know the carrier name. I just know the moving company.


4. I'd also just ring the local Customs office here (let me know if you need the number) and lodge a complaint with them - they are very helpful people and will give you better advice than Ms. C and I can.

5. If you are massively concerned about this, ring the police and tell them the situation, but make sure you have ALL the paperwork.

6. I have personally helped people out here so if this is all genuine, then I am happy to donate a bit of time and take my digital cameras for you (we'll nbeed some form of authorisation I think).

//Thanks. I would like to first find out what kind of damage has been done and proceed from there.

Cheers, P

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Post by sin2008 » Fri, 09 Jan 2009 12:14 am

The container is already in Singapore, but I won't be arriving in singapore for another week.

On top of that, someone else's stuff in the same container is also compromised. The agent at singapore has repacked some of the things, which means my stuff may have been mixed with others. I am not sure if the other suffered party (parties) have taken any action yet. If they are at singapore, presumably they have or will soon.

What a mess!

If I shall go through the legal path, should i retain someone in Hong Kong or Singapore?

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Post by sierra2469alpha » Fri, 09 Jan 2009 9:44 am

Sin2008 - I'm not a lawyer, but I'd suspect your best bet would be to see which company you have the signed contract with (you have one of those, right?) - the contract will stipulate (or should) which jurisdiction the agreement is made in. That should help you make your choice.

As durain said - log everything you now do with them.

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Re: horror story on moving and seek your advice

Post by imrankassim » Fri, 09 Jan 2009 12:20 pm

sin2008 wrote:We hired a moving company to ship our stuff to singapore. Today just received an email from the moving company that it seems that some of the boxes were opened and items missing.

Unfortunately we did not purchase the insurance. Also unfortunately that apparently there are other people's stuff in the same container.

Just wonder what we should do to now? The agent at singapore asked us to go to their warehouse but our date of arrival in singapore is a week later.

Thanks
Hi mate, been reading through your post and I can sympathise with what you;re going through. Unfortunately, the biggest mistake (and theres a lesson here for other people wanting to ship out their goods) is not purchasing insurance. The shipping lines, airlines etc have their own extremely limited insurance coverage for your goods, but then again it must be proved that the damage/theft occured during shipping transit and not at the point of origin or departure.

Now for a few question to help you sort this out :

1. Did you order a container or did u send the goods as LCL (less than container load), meaning did u send in the cartons as loose items.

2. If you did order a container, prior to trucking the container to the port, your hkg agent would have sealed the container, there;s a fixed seal on every container containing a serial number, if this seal is broken, your agent in singapore will not be able to clear the container from the port in singapore. Also, if the seal number on the container does not match the seal number on the bill of lading (which I trust u have a copy of), then also your agent here will not be able to clear the container from the port.

3. This means that if there are goods missing in the container, then it must have happened before the container was sealed. Or, it could have happened after the container was opened in Singapore after it had been cleared from the port (which I personally think is unlikely, but it could happen)


Imran
INT'L RELOCATION. [email protected]

sin2008
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Re: horror story on moving and seek your advice

Post by sin2008 » Fri, 09 Jan 2009 12:28 pm

Thank you, imrankassim.

The container also has other people's stuff. so I guess it is LCL.

Was also reading the contract between the moving company and me and it seems they are only liable to a max of HK$0.66/lb - basically nothing.


imrankassim wrote:
sin2008 wrote:We hired a moving company to ship our stuff to singapore. Today just received an email from the moving company that it seems that some of the boxes were opened and items missing.

Unfortunately we did not purchase the insurance. Also unfortunately that apparently there are other people's stuff in the same container.

Just wonder what we should do to now? The agent at singapore asked us to go to their warehouse but our date of arrival in singapore is a week later.

Thanks
Hi mate, been reading through your post and I can sympathise with what you;re going through. Unfortunately, the biggest mistake (and theres a lesson here for other people wanting to ship out their goods) is not purchasing insurance. The shipping lines, airlines etc have their own extremely limited insurance coverage for your goods, but then again it must be proved that the damage/theft occured during shipping transit and not at the point of origin or departure.

Now for a few question to help you sort this out :

1. Did you order a container or did u send the goods as LCL (less than container load), meaning did u send in the cartons as loose items.

2. If you did order a container, prior to trucking the container to the port, your hkg agent would have sealed the container, there;s a fixed seal on every container containing a serial number, if this seal is broken, your agent in singapore will not be able to clear the container from the port in singapore. Also, if the seal number on the container does not match the seal number on the bill of lading (which I trust u have a copy of), then also your agent here will not be able to clear the container from the port.

3. This means that if there are goods missing in the container, then it must have happened before the container was sealed. Or, it could have happened after the container was opened in Singapore after it had been cleared from the port (which I personally think is unlikely, but it could happen)


Imran

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sierra2469alpha
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Post by sierra2469alpha » Fri, 09 Jan 2009 12:40 pm

Backing onto ImranKassim's good post, I remember that when our container arrived the local guys took me down to the container and showed me the lock and serial number and asked me to check it against my documentation (i.e. serial number).

A further suggestion - when you do get here take photos of everything before you touch anything. That includes the state of the lock etc.

If your digital camera is in your container, PM me and I'd be happy to loan you mine.

Certainly not a good welcome to Singapore for you :(

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Re: horror story on moving and seek your advice

Post by imrankassim » Fri, 09 Jan 2009 12:46 pm

sin2008 wrote:Thank you, imrankassim.

The container also has other people's stuff. so I guess it is LCL.

Was also reading the contract between the moving company and me and it seems they are only liable to a max of HK$0.66/lb - basically nothing.


imrankassim wrote:
sin2008 wrote:We hired a moving company to ship our stuff to singapore. Today just received an email from the moving company that it seems that some of the boxes were opened and items missing.

Unfortunately we did not purchase the insurance. Also unfortunately that apparently there are other people's stuff in the same container.

Just wonder what we should do to now? The agent at singapore asked us to go to their warehouse but our date of arrival in singapore is a week later.

Thanks
Hi mate, been reading through your post and I can sympathise with what you;re going through. Unfortunately, the biggest mistake (and theres a lesson here for other people wanting to ship out their goods) is not purchasing insurance. The shipping lines, airlines etc have their own extremely limited insurance coverage for your goods, but then again it must be proved that the damage/theft occured during shipping transit and not at the point of origin or departure.

Now for a few question to help you sort this out :

1. Did you order a container or did u send the goods as LCL (less than container load), meaning did u send in the cartons as loose items.

2. If you did order a container, prior to trucking the container to the port, your hkg agent would have sealed the container, there;s a fixed seal on every container containing a serial number, if this seal is broken, your agent in singapore will not be able to clear the container from the port in singapore. Also, if the seal number on the container does not match the seal number on the bill of lading (which I trust u have a copy of), then also your agent here will not be able to clear the container from the port.

3. This means that if there are goods missing in the container, then it must have happened before the container was sealed. Or, it could have happened after the container was opened in Singapore after it had been cleared from the port (which I personally think is unlikely, but it could happen)


Imran
No worries pal, I hope you didn't lose anything that cant be replaced.
INT'L RELOCATION. [email protected]

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