What's so bad about sending ours sons to NS???

[Plavt]

And as Plavt reckons the British Army and Singapore NS are the same

.......an army recruits people to become soldiers whose purpose is to kill or be killed same as any army anywhere.

[jpatokal]

Bravo SMS! Well said.

Locally we say that NS is where boys become men.

I did NS (albeit not in Singapore), and I think a more appropriate description is that it's where men become boys. For most "soldiers", NS is a seemingly endless sequence of fart jokes, standing around waiting, and perfecting your skills at avoiding any sort of responsibility. The essence of the army and of boot camp is conditioning: shut up, do what you're told, never question orders. Seeing how this works on yourself and others was probably the single most instructive thing about the whole thing (and it explains a lot about Singapore too), but you don't need two years to find this out.

For me, the first two months of boot camp were an eye-opener in many ways, but the rest of the time was pretty much a total waste, and that's despite me managing to wiggle my way out of anti-tank infantry (carry landmine, dig hole, place landmine into hole, repeat) into something remotely matching my skills. In civil service, changing old folks' diapers, scrubbing hospital toilets or rescuing cats from trees is actually useful to somebody, but in NS, nothing you do will ever serve any useful purpose at all.

SMS, here's a challenge for you. List me the good things from the NSman's point of view (that is, no moral obligations etc) about serving NS in Singapore -- and I'll tell you ways to achieve the same things in less than two years.

[QRM]

What would happen if lets say Singapore declares war on the UK? What happens to the UK passport holding PR guys in NS.

Has the NS every fired in anger? or have they always been shooting at cardboard soldiers that don't fire back?

[Plavt]

What would happen if lets say Singapore declares war on the UK? What happens to the UK passport holding PR guys in NS.

Ask Saint.....

[road.not.taken]

[quote="jpatokal nothing you do will ever serve any useful purpose at all.
[/quote]

Isn't that because it is impossible to measure maturation? From those I know who have served national service, the benefits have mostly been intangibles. There's just no yardstick to measure growing up or gaining life lessons, learning to comply and how to deal. I have 4 brothers -- I think my parents would have embraced a program which gave them 2 more years to grow up before entering the 'real world'.

Your argument is a little like the kid who suffers through algebra saying: why do I need to know this? I'll never need it later. How do you know what you'll need when you are 18 and have 70 more years in front of you?

[Plavt]

Generally, most soldiers with leadership skills are soldiers with pride on jobs they are working on.

While they are in the forces that is believeable but when somebody finishes their NS it is only a matter of years for many before the experience pales into insignificance.

[Plavt]

nothing you do will ever serve any useful purpose at all.

True, even those that learn a supposedly 'useful trade' are often the hardest to place in other employment the day they complete their NS.

[Saint]

And as Plavt reckons the British Army and Singapore NS are the same

.......an army recruits people to become soldiers whose purpose is to kill or be killed same as any army anywhere.

NS aren't recruited like the British Army Plavt, try and drag yourself out of the 1950s

Most of NS will ever be sent ona tour overseas, many become policemen or SDF. No disrespect to NS, but they are they are like Dad's Army Home Guard!

[Plavt]

Your argument is a little like the kid who suffers through algebra : ?

Not true, in many parts of the world conscripts would be better employed elsewhere as they have no motivation to be soldiers do not adhere well to discipline and subsequentluy are a burden to force charged with defending a nation. One reason conscription was ended in the UK was simply if you kept putting people in the army who didn't want to be there, the net effect was you ended up with a very bad army.

[Saint]

What would happen if lets say Singapore declares war on the UK? What happens to the UK passport holding PR guys in NS.

Ask Saint.....

They wouldn't let me, I had my water pistol and PSP2 ready as well!

[Plavt]

NS aren't recruited like the British Army Plavt, try and drag yourself out of the 1950s

I know that and I never said they were learn to read instead of simply s*** stirring as you always do.

Ps: 1950's recruits were conscripts and were much like the ones you mention in your own post.

[Saint]

NS aren't recruited like the British Army Plavt, try and drag yourself out of the 1950s

I know that and I never said they were learn to read instead of simply s*** stirring as you always do.

Ps: 1950's recruits were conscripts and were much like the ones you mention in your own post.

Just commenting on how you are comparing British Army to the NS here, there's no comparison. Not even between the regular SAF and NS

[Plavt]

Just commenting on how you are comparing British Army to the NS here, there's no comparison. Not even between the regular SAF and NS

Not a question of comparisons: simply an army or armed forces function be it conscription and efficient or otherwise.

[QRM]

What would happen if lets say Singapore declares war on the UK? What happens to the UK passport holding PR guys in NS.

Ask Saint.....

They wouldn't let me, I had my water pistol and PSP2 ready as well!

and lets not forget the hello kitty body armour

[Saint]

Ask Saint.....

They wouldn't let me, I had my water pistol and PSP2 ready as well!

and lets not forget the hello kitty body armour

And a glass of hot milk and a bed time story from the CO