What else is Israel supposed to do?

[Wind In My Hair]

I had a sneaky suspicion it was you, SMS. Yes, it's turning out to be a good thread isn't it? I'm learning a lot from other posters' views.

Blow 'em all up? Looks like there's no need... they're doing it to each other already aren't they? Really sad.

[Shavit]

How come millions of people from all around the world
have the same bible, same anticipation to return to the same place on earth,
same hope to be in Jerusalem celebrating their holy days ?

Not saying that I disagree with you on my stance about Israel/Palestinian issue - quite the opposite. But this line of argument is just not right. There are many people who are not Jews have the same expectation that you write there. So it's not a valid argument to say that just because a group of people have the same expectation, it proves that they are a nation that comes from Jerusalem.

For example ?

[carteki]

The Palestian rocket attacks on Israel have been going on for years - which country would want to tolerate such attacks on their citizens?

The Palestians have themselves to blame - Israel left them to self-rule but they let Hamas take over, and put the blame on Israel - how unfair is that ? To them Hamas is right, Israel is wrong - Hamas can throw rockets but Israel cannot - where is the logic ?

To put this into another pespective - do you know who Nelson Mandela is? He is credited with uniting South Africa and bringing an end to apartheid. You may even have taken part in the world wide rallies to "FREE MANDELA". Do you know why he was kept imprisoned despite world pressure to free him? It was because he REFUSED to renounce violence as a means of achieving his objective, yet the world hails him as a hero. He was instrumental in starting up MK (the military wing of the ANC) that was responsible for a number of violent attacks. Growing up in white SA in the 80's I remember having my bag searched every time I went into a shopping centre (sometimes there were even metal detectors) and seeing stories on the news about people killed in bomb blasts - I was too young to realise the risk to me. Violence was the only way that Mandela - a person who has been hailed as one of the greatest statesmen of all time - saw to gaining enough attention to end the attrocities that were being perpertrated against black people. They were backed in a corner and had nowhere else to go.

The suicide bombers and firing of rockets by the Palestinians is largely as a result of the prison-like living conditiions imposed on them by the Israelies. You will always get "bad apples", but it is true that if you treat people with respect then they will respect you.

[road.not.taken]

do you know who Nelson Mandela is? Violence was the only way that Mandela - a person who has been hailed as one of the greatest statesmen of all time - saw to gaining enough attention to end the attrocities that were being perpertrated against black people. They were backed in a corner and had nowhere else to go.

I guess this is one interpretation, and if you grew up in South Africa, this is what was surely explained to you. Outside of SA, the story is a little different, but in an important way. Mandela refused to be released because he wouldn't deny the right to be armed. I can't believe the Nobel Peace Prize nominating committee got it so wrong.

[carteki]

Another book to add to your reading list - A Long Walk to Freedom - which is Nelson Mandela's autobiography.

[Wind In My Hair]

Another book to add to your reading list - A Long Walk to Freedom - which is Nelson Mandela's autobiography.

I second this recommendation. It's an excellent read, and you've just made me want to read it again!

[Tsunamiw4ve]

I would 1st say : Enough is Enough.... then add : "Yes Israel, good on you for protecting your citizens ! It's about time...

Israel has shown much restrain for not fighting back. But when it concerns the safety of it's citizens... the Israelis will not compromise. The ppl living in Sderot had been so patient & forebearing. I wish Israel acted much earlier than to wait 8 yrs.

Living daily with the threats of rockets being fired from Gaza is a literal hell.

I personally believe Israel should not have given Gaza to the Palis in 2005 . Just look what have Hamas done to it. Use it as a launching pad to fire rockets into Israel. Tear down the green houses, destroy the synagogues, built underground tunnels to smuggle weapons & bombs.

In truth, the government (Hamas) is NOT INTERESTED to live at peace with Israel. Their charter is to destroy Israel and push her into the sea. It has never changed since...

Almost every decade, Israel has to fight. Not because she started it, but because for survival sake.

1948 : War of Independence. 650,000 Jews vs 40 million Arab muslims
1956 : Sinai Campaign
1967 : 6 day War
1973 : Yom Kippur War
1982 : Lebanese Invasion
1991 : Gulf War
2000 onwards, to contend with daily suicide bombers.
2006 : Lebanon(Hizbollah) & Gaza (Hamas)

I have visited Israel twice & have jewish friends. They are so tired of fighting...

The so called Palis are displaced "Jordanians" ! They should go back to Jordan. So much land in Middle East to settle into...

Anyway, it's a vivious cycle... Hopefully, true peace will come to that region !

[Rosco83]

What a load of p!sh written on this thread. Anyone supporting Isreal should be destroyed.

'Good on Israel for looking after is people'? HA!

Israel has stolen the land of the Palestine's, backed by the US war criminal Jewish lobbies so they can carry out their corrupt, offshore business interests.

For anyone who wants to know the real history and not some rubbish they're fed from the ridiculously biased US Media (Fox News et al) then watch this to the very end:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2451908450811690589#

FREE PALESTINE!

[jpatokal]

So to go back to the initial question - what should they do now?

Well, that's the funny thing these days -- everybody knows what the outline of the only possible solution is, nobody is just publicly willing to commit to agreeing to it.

- The 1967 line is quietly forgotten and the Wall becomes the border between Israel and Palestine.
- Israel keeps all their big settlements and gives Palestine some useless patches of desert scrub to save face.
- Jerusalem is split in two, with some special arrangements so both sides can pretend this is not the case.
- A Palestinian corridor between Gaza and the West Bank is created.
- Israeli settlements outside the Wall are either evicted, or simply abandoned and left unprotected by the government.
- Palestinians get the right of return to the new state of Palestine, but not to Israel proper. (With, perhaps, a few face-saving exceptions.)
- Israel continues to maintain full control of the external borders of Palestine.

That's pretty much it. Nobody's going to like it, but what other option is there?

(Incidentally, you can forget about Egypt or Jordan or whoever taking over Gaza/West Bank. The last thing either needs is extra economic disaster zones with a couple of million more pissed-off Palestinians, and Israel would never tolerate giving either any real control anyway.)

[aster]

Don't want to spoil anyone's party, but Israel itself was founded by terrorists, who resorted to planting bombs and butchering innocent people. These people then made up the new "gov't'. So to see them now pointing the finger at others does raise an eyebrow...

Let's get one thing clear. They are not our allies, partners or anything close to that. If they could kill US troops and make it look like the Arabs did it, they would gladly do it without blinking an eye. It's all been done before, just look up what happened to 34 Americans serving on the USS Liberty, murdered in cold blood.

President Lyndon Johnson even had planes with some "very unpleasant cargo" destined for Cairo, but fortunately they were recalled in time.

The Israelis have been able to hijack American foreign policy for far too long, starting wars that are not in America's interest, siphoning billions in foreign aid, etc. Lobbying Washington might work for now, but there's a reason why anyone even remotely connected to this Middle Eastern nation has no chance of rising up the ranks in the FBI or CIA to any significant position.

[scarbowl]

I thought so (about tongue and the cheek) but nevertheless I was wondering if you meant it. Anyway, if you see my posts - I did say it make sense for Singapore to have an armed forces. What I don't agree is that Singapore is surrounded by hostile neighbors. Despite all the rhetorics, I don't think any of those could be categorized as "hostile".
Finally - yeah let's go back to Gaza topic

Perhaps you could characterize them as "threatening" however. Though I do not know enough Indonesians or Malaysians to have a sense of the situation, I'm sure the surrounding countries are somewhat jealous of the wealth of Singapore.

I was told that when Singapore donated to support Aceh after the tsunami, the Indonesian leadership said, basically, "thank you and by the way, it is your obligation to support a poor country such as ours."

Singapore has to maintain the appearance of a strong defense to discourage its neighbors from thinking too much about the prosperity here and how they might extract a "tax" for themselves.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Singapore has to maintain the appearance of a strong defense to discourage its neighbors from thinking too much about the prosperity here and how they might extract a "tax" for themselves.

Not really.

Singapore relies primarily on its own defense forces, which are continuously being modernized. The defense budget accounts for approximately 34% of government operating expenditures (or 4.5% of GDP). A career military force of 55,000 is supplemented by 300,000 persons, either on active National Service, which is compulsory for able-bodied young men, or on Reserve. The Singapore Armed Forces engage in joint training with Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) countries and with the United States, Australia, New Zealand, and India. Singapore also conducts military training on Taiwan.

Singapore is a member of the Five-Power Defense Arrangement together with the United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand, and Malaysia. The arrangement obligates members to consult in the event of external threat and provides for stationing Commonwealth forces in Singapore.

Singapore has consistently supported a strong U.S. military presence in the Asia-Pacific region. In 1990, the United States and Singapore signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) which allows United States access to Singapore facilities at Paya Lebar Airbase and the Sembawang wharves. Under the MOU, a U.S. Navy logistics unit was established in Singapore in 1992; U.S. fighter aircraft deploy periodically to Singapore for exercises, and a number of U.S. military vessels visit Singapore. The MOU was amended in 1999 to permit U.S. naval vessels to berth at the Changi Naval Base, which was completed in early 2001. In July 2005, the United States and Singapore signed a Strategic Framework Agreement to expand cooperation in defense and security. Link

[JR8]

Don't want to spoil anyone's party, but Israel itself was founded by terrorists, who resorted to planting bombs and butchering innocent people.

I don't know, you could argue it was founded by the Allied forces in the aftermath of WW2. I mean the Jewish exodus of refugees from central Europe could hardly stay put and get annihilated by the Nazis. You could argue that Israel exists because of the Germans...

[Strong Eagle]

I don't know, you could argue it was founded by the Allied forces in the aftermath of WW2.

Dredging up 4 1/2 year old posts are we? Must be a slow night.

[JR8]

I came upon that quote, and found it thought provoking and worth sharing.

- I thought we had an existing 'Quotes' topic somewhere but couldn't find it.
- I wasn't going to start a new topic just to post it.
- So I topic-searched on 'Israel', and slotted it there.
- My comment to Aster was not planned, just an afterthought... given the irony [to me] of his comment. Nothing personal at all, in fact he is an absolutely charming and first-rate fellow...

Is there a better solution that I should be aware of if similar recurs in future?